These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE
Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread |
|
|
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
|
03-22-2009 09:20
Why? That statement doesn't say anything about whether someone might have to pay to get PIOF (which isn't age verification, in any case). They DON'T charge landowners anything to limit access to their parcels. And that's a good thing, considering how useless that access control is. The same as companies offer "free delivery", the cost has to be met somewhere in the business model. |
|
minoko Aeon
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 45
|
03-22-2009 09:53
Well I know there are a lot of messages here and hopefully someone takes the time to read mine.
Ok they are going to move all adult content great I assume this means me too since my shop a has a bck room for my personal use which surely someone would be offended by but I'm ina great neighborhood a with a lovely roadside plot etc etc which has taken me a lot of moving around and a lot of L buying up 16m extorsion parcels all in all a considerable investment to finnaly make my SLiving a pleasant one and now I am very concerned on how LL is going to relocate me and/or compensate me which they have very mum on and wouldn't suprise me if they have no idea themselves since they are akin to making this half thought out policys When can we expect some real awnsers? At least tell us that! -O |
|
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
|
03-22-2009 10:05
This would be financial suicide if the EstateOwner flagged a SIM Adult and you run a PG or Mature business.....your model assumes 100% of the current user base would verify and thus there would be no shrinkage to potential pool of customers. We all know that won't happen....not even close! Transferring SIMs if you are an Estate SIM, costs 100 USD per sim to reposition on the Grid. It comes down to whether LL would be prepared to waiver these fees Problem is Rene you can run any sort of business you like; it's getting those renters to comply with your rules; that is where we will ultimately run into issues. For some it would be much easier just to flag their estate(s) as Adult. Others who run pg residential communities on the other hand would be responsible for the content they allow on their estate. Or risk being AR'ed when anyone spots an infraction of the new rules. Which is up for interpretation of "Adult". While I may not think that a sex bed is considered "Adult" some one else might. Sometimes it's just easier to go with the main objective (flow) than to try to buck the rules(system). With LL they obviously (at least to me)are trying to phase out adult content; advertising, search, relocation/zoning issues. There will always be ways around the rules but after all this time I don't have the desire to fight them; it is what it is. |
|
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
|
03-22-2009 10:08
Well I know there are a lot of messages here and hopefully someone takes the time to read mine. Ok they are going to move all adult content great I assume this means me too since my shop a has a bck room for my personal use which surely someone would be offended by but I'm ina great neighborhood a with a lovely roadside plot etc etc which has taken me a lot of moving around and a lot of L buying up 16m extorsion parcels all in all a considerable investment to finnaly make my SLiving a pleasant one and now I am very concerned on how LL is going to relocate me and/or compensate me which they have very mum on and wouldn't suprise me if they have no idea themselves since they are akin to making this half thought out policys When can we expect some real awnsers? At least tell us that! -O Move you? Yes. Compensation? No. That's my guess anyways. |
|
Ceejay Harvey
Very unhappy customer
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
|
I hope this isn't the shape of things to come
03-22-2009 10:23
As I decided to add my alts to my credit card, and both are still reading
No payment info on file. Even though I bought lindens on one of them.. this doesn't look good for those that wish to use credit cards to verify.. meaning many will choose to not verify given the options available, due to the third party company being used. |
|
raebedahs Rhiadra
Registered User
Join date: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 7
|
03-22-2009 10:25
you will understand more that LL doesn't care generally about the players and will do what they want with SL as we ALL AGREED they could when we started. I think that may be an issue that is bothering me the most... I'm one of those silly "rule followers". I thought that maybe.... JUST maybe that the agreement was a TWO way street and that it implied that the party of the first part AGREED to enforce said rules. Further, that by sticking to the agreement that I (and my community)would be protected. Many of us have found a community here and i have a lot of friends here that i speak with on the fone and have met in RL, in fact i met my now RL wife here. Its not about all this its about the fact that LL can and will (as proven in the past) do exactly what they want with SL as we all agreed they could when we joined this great place as i have said. This is just another part of a history of SL disasters, yet its still standing and we still play. We are one of those affected and we will have to give our mainland sim up and move to the new world. We have great neighbors well one anyway and this will cause problems all over the grid but after a while seeing the stunts that LL pulls you realize that shouting and pulling out of the hair won't affect the decision one bit as you get used to the way LL writes and talks about these changes and you will see that its a done deal. So if 'it' is going to happen we might as well enjoy 'it'. Fact is they have a TOS which we all signed and agreed to when we started and if people feel that aggrieved then take LL to court and contest what they are doing, just as people threatened to do when the OS problem started and yes we also lost money there as well. They have more money / laywers to spend therefore we HAVE to enjoy 'it' This problem would not be as bad today if LL had never taken PIOF required away when they created the non verified accounts and opened the floodgates in 2006, people should have always been required to verify themselves when joining and they always should have had an adult continent from the beginning and then no one would have been under any illusions from the start. All this is as i stated in another post is as helpful as shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but LL don't forward plan very well with the customers in mind. AMEN Just because i will work with LL to ease our transition to the new adult land doesn't mean i don't care or i like losing money, but there again i never play with money here that i can't afford to lose tomorrow and all those friends here i have i know i will remain in contact with even if LL folded today. Peace And this may just be me... I don't loose or gain money here... for SOME this is a 'game' for ME (and I hope I'm not standing alone) this is a TOOL. A wonderful social expieriment to see where and what cream rises. Shockingly (or maybe not the search feature is not TOTALLY useless, ABUSED but not useless) within days I met and bonded with people IN here! Within a month I became a premium member with my own 512 sq with 117 prims to play with and TRY to make something! LOL its STILL not done but damn its fun trying. As time has gone on I've become a fair builder and scripter. (Hey, I HAVE to! because $300L a week is a TINY budget! and tipping events venues that I attend, while not required is a way of saying thank you (even if its NOT alot)). SPEAKING of Venues...if anyone cares to explore the inworld tools made availibe to you you can find just about ANYTHING from classes to heated philosophy discussions! Art and Science. Literature to Movies with a new friend. its IMPOSSIBLE to be bored here just BORING. Content is what you make of it. YOU being the operative word. This quirky WORLD is what it IS because of the CONTENT!! ALL of the content! Just like in RL you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have....etc. BUT unlike RL you can wiggle your nose or cross your arms and blink and BE somewhere else! Griefers can be dealt with with a semi-simple process of adding them to a ban list, a report and the wonderful mute button. TOOLS! use em or not. I actually had a laugh once about where was the luddite/puritan SIM... in retrospect I shouldn't have laughted quite so hard... karma forgive me! Peace w/'a smoldering goooie center' |
|
minoko Aeon
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 45
|
03-22-2009 10:34
What we need is a good ol fashioned protest like when they proposed a tax on rezzing prims
|
|
Jenwen Walpole
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 6
|
when can we start!
03-22-2009 10:48
I have adult based areas on sl. I welcome this change.
Personaly, i do not want anyone accedently coming to an area that is adult themed, nor do i want to see adult themed things in public areas where it is not expected. the current setup has presented a level of difficulty in keeping those who are not adult out of adult areas. those who i suspect not to be adult represent about 90 persent of my problems. Part of the less seen problems come from those who wish to change avatars every other week and commit frauds against others. This will make it more difficult for that to happen and potentialy make it easier for SL to identify those commiting fraud, or at least i am hoping so. most of those frauds happen in adult themed areas surrounding in world escorting and cam girls and those who are using stolen credit cards or other forms of illegitimate lindens. The most likely people to commit these kind of frauds are those whoa are the least likely to have any legal problems for them, the underaged. There is only so much that somone who is running an adult area can do and keep the doors open wothout some inforced methods and policys in place. i've made any adult areas i have non accessable from people just walking down a street, and very well discribed in sl search so that no one will just tp into them. this includes putting walls around some places. I do belvie the estimation of 2-4 % of sl being adult is a very low estimate. altough think that is a fair estimate of those areas that are well known or easy to find. sex and nudity are very prevelent in sl. sexualy oreinted palces are in abundance, as is areas that it is acceptable to heve sexualy orented local chat and voice chat. I also think that if you look at it from a traiific standpoint, the pecentage based on time spent in various adult areas would be even higher. Has anyone in linden done that analysis? This will certanly reduce the traffic on sl. It will also reduce the number of adult themed areas on sl by a noticable number. but consdier the adult area you may patronize could be run by somone underaged. who whants that. Policing this policy will be very difficult if not impossible, and is where people trying to run a "legitimate" adult area will run into i disadvantage if it is not well policed by sl. verification is not an unusual thing on the itnernet. If somone commits fraud to verify themselves, then this is out of everyones hands as far as being responsable. I think that anyone who is worried about these fraudulant verifications are over thinking things. if they get caught, then they should be delt with. I think the point is to try to make a resonable environment where the expected comunity standards for an area can be upheld, and adult areas can exsist and thrive without worries of somone undeaged or somone nto desiring to expereinced adult themed content wondering into those areas. thats my 2 linden... take it for what its worth  |
|
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
|
03-22-2009 11:01
Problem is Rene you can run any sort of business you like; it's getting those renters to comply with your rules; that is where we will ultimately run into issues. For some it would be much easier just to flag their estate(s) as Adult. Others who run pg residential communities on the other hand would be responsible for the content they allow on their estate. Or risk being AR'ed when anyone spots an infraction of the new rules. Which is up for interpretation of "Adult". While I may not think that a sex bed is considered "Adult" some one else might. Sometimes it's just easier to go with the main objective (flow) than to try to buck the rules(system). With LL they obviously (at least to me)are trying to phase out adult content; advertising, search, relocation/zoning issues. There will always be ways around the rules but after all this time I don't have the desire to fight them; it is what it is. its not even about Content which is more important as regards a Commerical SIM.....the problem of flagging Adult on a Residential sim is quite simple. Friends List! How many on your Friends List won't be able to visit you at your home because they are not verified or NPIOF? Even more bizarre if a couple that own/ rent a plot of land and one of them is verified and the other is not! Supposing that person doesn't want to verifiy for whatever reason? its not so straight forward to flag everything at the highest level (Adult)....trust me, I gave it some thought regarding my own Estate. |
|
Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
|
03-22-2009 11:23
LL was a task force member (and sponsor) of the Berkman Internet Safety Technical Task Force run by the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University. In December 08 it produced it's final report : "Enhancing Child Safety and Online Technologies" Final Report of the Internet Safety Technical Task Force to the Multi-State Working Group on Social Networking of State Attorneys General of the United States Its remit was to "The Internet Safety Technical Task Force was created in February 2008 in accordance with the Joint Statement on Key Principles of Social Networking Safety announced in January 2008 by the Attorneys General Multi-State Working Group on Social Networking and MySpace. The scope of the Task Force's inquiry was to consider those technologies that industry and end users - including parents - can use to help keep minors safer on the Internet. " http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/pubrelease/isttf/ Which was accepted by 48 (I think, do you think I can find the reference??) out of the 52 Attorneys General. *This* is the reason why we are going through this. There is no way that LL can shy away from implementing these. Unfortunately I smell vested interests all the way through this report. But that is to be expected. ... In the end, this will happen whether we like it or not... We really need to start to focus on the logistics of the move. That is probably the only place where will will get LL to actually change their position and potentially provide more support than.. Links: Berkman report executive summary: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/sites/cyber.law.harvard.edu/files/ISTTF_Final_Report-Executive_Summary.pdf here is Aristotles submission to committee http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/sites/cyber.law.harvard.edu/files/Aristotle_ISTTFTAB_submission.pdf ... So, can we stop being sidetracked by things we can't change and talk about what we expect LL to do to facilitate the smooth transfer to the ghetto? applause |
|
Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
|
03-22-2009 11:42
It looks like a lot of responses, but it's actually just a lot of noise. There aren't many unique avatars posting on this topic relative to the average number of people online.
|
|
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
|
03-22-2009 11:42
They could just go back to requiring a sign-up fee to access Second Life, that way everyone would be PIOF.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
|
Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
|
Exit Strategy
03-22-2009 12:10
Honestly its this kind of thing that comes out of LL just makes all kinds of businesses want to pull out of SL because you never know when they will pull the rug from under your feet. The new policy proposal isnt dangerous because people will try to go around it. Thats a given anyway like the speakeasies that emerged after the games of chance ban. Also for those of us who been in SL for a while always associated the mature rating with the possibility of seeing topless dancers and such. Bone head moves like these from LL is what makes people lose confidence in SL as a whole! And really its why SL is such a huge camping bot filled leach fest. In the end, this will happen whether we like it or not. The grace and goodwill with which LL handle it will determine the outcome - and we've seen their track record on that rofl.We really need to start to focus on the logistics of the move. That is probably the only place where will will get LL to actually change their position and potentially provide more support than.  . For almost two years, Linden Lab has been generating uncertainty and raising the price of risk. While it is true that there is as yet no real competition, most intelligent people are reluctant to invest time and capital into a political economy that is not professionally managed. I believe the smart money is already preparing its exit strategy._____________________
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line; but it better work this time."
- Dave Mustaine |
|
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
|
03-22-2009 12:21
Second Life is starting to feel a bit like Zimbabwe. The problem goes beyond the current policy (see my earlier posts "Sanity, Not Sanitation" and "COGS in the VAT Machine" . For almost two years, Linden Lab has been generating uncertainty and raising the price of risk. While it is true that there is as yet no real competition, most intelligent people are reluctant to invest time and capital into a political economy that is not professionally managed. I believe the smart money is already preparing its exit strategy.Totally agree...was trying to explain this to my business partner a few minutes ago. There is too much uncertainty surrounding LL to start investing in it....especially if you have recently joined the grid and thinking about it! The ones that have already invested....will just see how this policy change impacts their own business model. Some will survive it, others won't. |
|
Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
|
03-22-2009 12:24
This was a nice pros and cons list at the bottom of page 74, highly suggested reading, but I'm chopping out most of it.
And the "pros" ... ummm ..... no, sorry, I really can't think of any. There is 1, ONE, pro that I thought of, and it will only really affect startup adult businesses. Startups, if they manage to get into an area with any foot traffic at all might, MIGHT, benefit from that since as they would be on the adult continent where customers are looking for that content anyway. Probably won't have that affect on older businesses as customers start to find them again. But with sex being such a HUGE industry in sl it can be hard for a new business to catch up. but weighted against the cons.... the cons still win |
|
Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
|
03-22-2009 12:51
Blue Linden,
Depictions of human slavery should be categorized as restricted adult content. Slavery is considered extremely offensive by most people. No one should be confronted with images of ongoing slavery without giving their explicit permission. Thanks, Nany |
|
Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
|
03-22-2009 13:02
Blue Linden, Depictions of human slavery should be categorized as restricted adult content. Slavery is considered extremely offensive by most people. No one should be confronted with images of ongoing slavery without giving their explicit permission. Thanks, Nany _____________________
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line; but it better work this time."
- Dave Mustaine |
|
Blondin Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
|
03-22-2009 13:02
Depictions of human slavery should be categorized as restricted adult content. Slavery is considered extremely offensive by most people. No one should be confronted with images of ongoing slavery without giving their explicit permission. What do other thinks about this? Would others agree that depictions of human slavery would fall on the side of extremely violent? |
|
Blondin Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
|
03-22-2009 13:03
No, slavery is considered extremely offensive to Nany Kayo. The rest of us will decide for ourselves what we consider offensive. What do you consider offensive in terms of violence? |
|
Akira Luminos
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 41
|
03-22-2009 13:05
Blue Linden, Depictions of human slavery should be categorized as restricted adult content. Slavery is considered extremely offensive by most people. No one should be confronted with images of ongoing slavery without giving their explicit permission. Thanks, Nany DNFTT  |
|
Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
|
03-22-2009 13:08
What do you consider offensive in terms of violence? _____________________
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line; but it better work this time."
- Dave Mustaine |
|
Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
|
03-22-2009 13:10
What do other thinks about this? Would others agree that depictions of human slavery would fall on the side of extremely violent? Depictions of slavery would be considered objectionable in any public place in the United States, similar to burning crosses. |
|
Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
|
03-22-2009 13:14
Depictions of slavery would be considered objectionable in any public place in the United States, similar to burning crosses. _____________________
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line; but it better work this time."
- Dave Mustaine |
|
Kyle Steig
Registered User
Join date: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 32
|
I insist on being kept whole in this change.
03-22-2009 13:14
Dear Lindens,
Fine, you want to move the pervs to the ghetto and leave 'adult' so nebulously defined it's an AR trap for anyone who even owns an anatomically suggestive skin. or says -BLEEP- in chat. OK. I can live with that. You want to sell more sims to IBM, more power to you. I want you to make money so you can stay in business. Here's a solution that will leave me a satisfied customer and not one inclined to see what my legal options are: - Skip the 'age verified' plan and go with 'age affirmed' as an opt-in process unrelated to payment info on file. Get yourself out of the liability business. - Give me a 'reverse mute' so I can mute myself to anyone who has not 'age affirmed' and agreed to see 'adult content'. - Give me an additional permissions flag that lets me not sell to or allow anyone to even see any products I make who have not 'age affirmed'. - Let me apply this flag retroactively or flag content as 'pre and post' rift so I can't be blamed for things I made two months ago. - Move every single prim on my mainland to equivalent parcels on the Adult Continent. Make it zero work for me or waive 3 months tier so I can do the work myself on land swapped meter for meter to ensure there's no out of pocket for me. All the current options being discussed involve taking value I have paid and or worked for. This taking is in an effort to move SL to a standard not even applicable to my Cable TV in my home or the internet in general. The above terms let you demonstrate a commitment to segregate the pervs from your would-be investors and the press and they don't mean taking away my value. We're only 2-4%. You won't miss us. It won't cost much. Be generous. Thanks, - Kyle Dear Fellow Citizens, Stop asking for the unreasonable, just insist they keep you whole and move EVERYTHING you have on mainland to the Adult Continent. Just withdraw from the mainstream economy and demand they not make it cost you anything to do it. I think we can happily live amongst our selves. If we build it, they will come. - Kyle |
|
Matthew Dowd
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,046
|
03-22-2009 13:14
What do you consider offensive in terms of violence? How long is a piece of string? What is the best flavour for ice-cream? Sorry, Blondin, I'm afraid you're going to get as much consensus amonst the answers to that question as to the two I've just quoted. Anyway for the record, what I consider offensive in terms of violence is any form of violence in RL. Matthew |