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Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread |
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Lolita Abel
Registered User
Join date: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
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03-19-2009 18:42
My trusty calculator says there are now over 3,500 posts on this subject in one week. (2873 in the locked group + over 650 here. When will LL consider this subject to be deserving of major reconsideration? When will LL decide that maybe they're wrong? As another poster said earlier, something this important should be noticed on the main log-in screen. Invite all of SL to participate in this rather than trying to slip it in under the radar.
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Nicolette Lefevre
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
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03-19-2009 18:45
Show a quick show of hand how many feel they will be forced to Move I will probably have to move if they go through with this. |
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Amras Martynov
Banned From Society
Join date: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 42
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03-19-2009 18:46
My trusty calculator says there are now over 3,500 posts on this subject in one week. (2873 in the locked group + over 650 here. When will LL consider this subject to be deserving of major reconsideration? When will LL decide that maybe they're wrong? As another poster said earlier, something this important should be noticed on the main log-in screen. Invite all of SL to participate in this rather than trying to slip it in under the radar. A corporation could be filled with the nicest people you'd ever meet, and they'd still never be able to admit they're wrong about a policy change. It isn't even about money, it's just how corporations work. _____________________
_______________________
ATTN: I am not in need of an editor. Please don't try to act as one for me. Thank you. |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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03-19-2009 18:49
I had the opportunity of meeting with a RL business client today (not a corporate, but certainly big enough to bring many thousands of dollars into SL, I would have thought - their initial yearly budget for virtual/3D interaction and deployment is around 100K USD, including consultancy, development and staffing). The issue of Second Life/virtual worlds was brought up, as the Managing Director is a Resident and uses SL in her leisure time - and *I* was asked about this very debate regarding changes to adult content. I explained as much as I could - we visited the blog and forum and discussed the plans, especially the issue of 'adult content'. No-one in the meeting had a problem with *any* content, if it was already in a Mature zone and governed by the existing ToS - in fact the MD was more concerned about Linden Lab's current attitude towards it's customer base and wants to hold back from investing in SL, to connect to a potential market, as she wasn't happy using SL as a vehicle for her company if Linden Lab carried out these changes. She felt that the key selling point of SL was its eclectic mix and that this policy was destabilising. They aren't in the slightest bit interested in duplicating RL, or entering into a virtual world which was 'predictable'. Far from it. On the topic of 'adult content' - the unanimous reply I received was, "Well, it's an adult only world, isn't it? If you don't like something that you stumble upon, you move on." They also have no interest in connecting their brand and services whatsoever were minors might be encouraged to be, so this was another issue. They have tasked me to explore other more open-minded and creative thinking virtual worlds as alternatives. An onerous task, as I do think SL, in its current form, IS the best solution for an open-minded, forward thinking company to explore. What was interesting though, was, that we couldn't satisfy their wish to find an equivalent alternative adult only multiverse after a quick scan of the options available. I imagine what will happen is that they will eventually sink their budget back into their web development program and wait for OpenSim, if the changes take place. M.Linden ought to get a copy of this post! |
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Nicolette Lefevre
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
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03-19-2009 18:53
Do you trust Linden Labs ? YES or NO NO Not anymore. And the whole inworld-economy is built on that trust. Without that trust people won't invest their money here. And that is bad for SL as a whole! I have the feeling that the powers-that-be at LL haven't realized that yet. |
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Nicolette Lefevre
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
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03-19-2009 19:05
No-one in the meeting had a problem with *any* content, if it was already in a Mature zone and governed by the existing ToS - in fact the MD was more concerned about Linden Lab's current attitude towards it's customer base and wants to hold back from investing in SL, to connect to a potential market, as she wasn't happy using SL as a vehicle for her company if Linden Lab carried out these changes. She felt that the key selling point of SL was its eclectic mix and that this policy was destabilising. Excellent point! Hopefully this will give LL something to think about. They seem to have forgotten that SL being different than RL is exactly what makes it so attractive. |
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Amras Martynov
Banned From Society
Join date: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 42
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03-19-2009 19:06
Do you trust Linden Labs ? YES or NO There are a few Lindens I trust a lot. There are a few Lindens I don't trust at all. As a company, independent from the lawyers, I do trust LL. As a company tainted by puritan power-mongers, I do not trust LL one bit. In other words, it depends on which aspect of LL you refer to. _____________________
_______________________
ATTN: I am not in need of an editor. Please don't try to act as one for me. Thank you. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-19-2009 19:29
They have tasked me to explore other more open-minded and creative thinking virtual worlds as alternatives. Even if everyone's worst nightmares come true, it will still be the most open minded and creative virtual world out there by a factor of maybe ten or twenty thousand percent. Not even excluding OpenSims. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Melissa Yeuxdoux
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
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Consistency and self-censorship?
03-19-2009 19:31
I'm curious about a couple of things.
About a year ago, I was told to remove my (fully clothed and covered--I was wearing a long-sleeved opaque turtleneck sweater and jeans) prim breasts in one of the Gossip Girl sims, because said sims are PG. A short distance away, still in said sims, a very scanty leather outfit could be purchased by clicking on its ad, showing it being worn in various BDSM poses--apparently with the approval of those running the sims. Can we be sure that the rules will be applied consistently? I was amazed to see references to having to censor one's profile and picks, apparently if one is to be present (allowed?) in PG sims. Does that extend to group membership as well? That seems rather extreme; if it comes to that, I'd rather be able to flag such things as not to be displayed to those wishing/needing to be sheltered. |
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Vorren Voltaire
General Contractor
Join date: 4 Jul 2006
Posts: 78
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Wake me up when its all over
03-19-2009 19:42
That when we DO get some (limited) response from Blondin Linden, it is always that he(she?) picks one or two posts to which an easy answer of "No, it won't be like that." is possible, but NONE of the larger, more hotly debated or direct questions are responded to? Is this because there ARE NO answers to those things yet? Or because the answer is "Yes, thats exactly what we are saying." and the outcry from a definitive answer would be HUGE? Just wondering. My trusty calculator says there are now over 3,500 posts on this subject in one week. (2873 in the locked group + over 650 here. When will LL consider this subject to be deserving of major reconsideration? When will LL decide that maybe they're wrong? As another poster said earlier, something this important should be noticed on the main log-in screen. Invite all of SL to participate in this rather than trying to slip it in under the radar. Its been a week. Hardly any of the relevant questions have been answered and the more elegant and sensible technical solutions seem to have fallen onto deaf ears. No offense Blondin, I hear you are a nice guy and I have nothing but respect, but you are starting to sound like a well programmed chatbot. Come on, Lindens...stop jerking us around here. |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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03-19-2009 19:42
Do you trust Linden Labs ? YES or NO They raised private island montly tier by 50% in 2006 and raised openspace/homestead montly tier by 67% in 2008. My mainland home frequently drops to 0 sim fps, even with only 10-15 people on it and the "solution provided" to my support ticket seems to be "wow.. it is laggy. weird." Really looking forward to them moving me to the lag continent for adults. Last year, most of the objects on my mainland home went away - about 15 different residents were impacted. They refused to roll the sim back and it took them 6 months to answer my support ticket asking for info on what happened (and it turned out to be totally BS answer) but, to be fair, they did try to close the ticket after only 4 months. They didn't provide any answer - just closed it with no message - to that though, so I reopened it. A good friend & neighbor tiered down then left SL because of that one.  They seem to be either totally unaware or uncaring on how much they piss off residents. They seem to have no problems investing in things like Big Spaceship but, well, how about hiring a co-op to spend a week fixing the forums, guys? Coming up on 2 years now. This latest stunt with adult stuff is just insane. Not just that the plan itself is insane but that they don't seem to realize it. So.. Do I trust Linden Lab the company? No. Not really. They happily charge me US$125/month for my mainland home and call me a concierge customer but it's getting harder and harder to justify that given the way they like to treat us. Do I trust individual Lindens? Mostly.. Some are great people and lots of fun to hang out with. Others, a minority by far, just make me want to scream. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-19-2009 19:54
But play fair, please, Linden Labs: SIMs which are currently already populated with more than 50% X-rated content AND marked mature shall be moved as-is, and the non-X-rated people/businesses should move out then. Seriously, it's their own fault to put non-mature content on SIMs marked mature. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Darren Tani
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 2
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Lets be honest.. This is about getting more SL memberships
03-19-2009 20:17
PG / Mature..... Its like the choices while watching television. Don`t like watching soaps? Don`t Watch! Don`t like to see naked people on HBO? Don`t Watch! Don`t like sex sims?
Don`t GO! Proper labeling by land owners should be controlled, not each and every movement of a resident of SL Why do I believe this is a ploy for LL to make more money? Because LL can use TOS to cover this issue however, that makes no new memberships. So make people use their credit card, or go to adult verification and enter your atm# to verify, both things many people either cannot or will not do. What happens during this fiasco? People that have business on mature sims suffer. Pg sim prices will skyrocket, and we will all live in a vanilla world. This is a fleecing of residents. Remember when there were personal ratings each avatar could give another.... for 25L ? I bet over a million 25L ratings were recorded before LL took those away. Where did the money go? What do we have to show for it?> 0 LL should spend more time working on lowering tier rates so more people could afford to express themselves on their own land thus creating more cash flow as they purchase items to decorate their land. This is all going in the wrong direction and I am close to leaving SL. I am not falling for this ploy and I do not think anyone else should. |
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Col Nikolaidis
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 13
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SL meltdown
03-19-2009 20:51
The whisper is that all this adult content gibberish can be traced back to big business residents of SL. I presume that's because they want everyone in SL to walk around in suits.
Innit fascinating that big business has done a fantastic job of melting down the global economy and now they seem to have that goal for Second Life? Like a bunch of hyper-active kids who can't be left alone for a minute. My tip for Linden Lab. Stop running around like headless chooks trying to cater for corporate world in Second Life. Do a cut and paste and set up Corporate Second Life and keep the "suits" out of our face! |
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samatha Congrejo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 188
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Dying as planned
03-19-2009 20:57
This thread is dying out, just as i suspect the lindens want.
We all know why, as soon as we pointed out all we were getting was pr answers, the LIndens disappeared and never returned. Now of course we have all asked the questions and how many different ways can these questions be asked with no answers given. So please if you are frustrated here, go in world, post notices in your groups, pick up an info kiosk: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1321336 or come to: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rivers%20Rock/125/82/41 and pick one up; or make your own notice, etc. Lets get the word out in world and concentrate our efforts there. Lets pull this into the open. If the Lindens will not tell the general membership, we will. We heard all the comments about this is a corporation etc. Except, it is all of us that generate the money to keep this corporation going. |
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Mystique Chambers
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 78
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03-19-2009 21:33
I see this as simple, over 2 years ago I bought mature land and told it was for adults. If it isn't and wasn't then I expect all my tiers payments, time of building up my business's refunded. Obviously I was sold something that wasn't true to fact. In R/L that is swindling. I await for the outcome, but if I have to move and it'll cost me money to do so over lies of land selling what was never meant to be, I expect a letter of apology and a complete refund of over two years worth of my real life money.
Why is it I feel like I was swindled into buying swamp land. For thats all mature land will be valued at if LL's goes through with this idea. |
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Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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03-19-2009 21:46
Show a quick show of hand how many feel they will be forced to Move I'm going to have to Move. MystressAnna Lovenkraft can I show 2 hands? it affects 2 of me Part of my gallery under this avvie name, and an entire shop under another av. |
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Mystique Chambers
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 78
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03-19-2009 21:57
two hands up here..enforcement. But I think I'll just quit SL. They obviously don't need my 150 real time bucks, nor all the other money I generate and spend. I'm sure a twin of SL would. And my cost will be cheaper. I have a lot to think about until I see what they will truly do. But like I said, to much work in moving it all.
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Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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03-19-2009 22:06
kinda off topic, but not really
has anybody else seen a drop in sales since this was announced? And I mean any business, not just ones most likely to be impacted. I saw one big hit a couple weeks ago on my clothing store when the security was upped on xstreet and there were login problems from it, and I was just starting to see recovery from that when this announcement was made and now my sales have been pitiful this entire week. both in world and on xstreet. I'll admit with the economy, and spring break in many places it could just be coincidence... but I'm wondering if this is already affecting us. |
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Professor Milos
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 4 Nov 2007
Posts: 43
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03-19-2009 22:11
Show a quick show of hand how many feel they will be forced to Move I'm going to have to Move. MystressAnna Lovenkraft If it helps - 3 hands here - but I won't be forcibly moved, I bought Mature land in good faith, so I'll just ditch it when the time comes and save some money. Btw - unless it's been mentioned before - if LL do ever create a PG/G safe continent, please can it be called 'Predictable'? |
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samatha Congrejo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 188
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Lindens Competing for Sim Title
03-19-2009 22:41
You know all this seems very much like some very slimy sim owners we all know about.
Sell you land, collect teir and then suddenly, "Get Out, I sold the sim" or "I turned the sim pg LEAVE!!" Which is exactly why a bunch of these people went and bought land on the mainland. Now they are getting, "We turned your sim pg, GET OUT" Strange, sounds just like the slimy sim owners Lindens are always condemning and promising to try to work to get rid of. |
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samatha Congrejo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 188
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Lets Review
03-19-2009 23:23
OK,
So, so far we have what?? The Grand announcement from SL. The claim it only effects 2 to 4 % then changed to 4 to 6%. A figure they refuse to explain in detail or tell us how they came up with it. Even though we all know the figure is more like 10 times that. They refuse to explain what will or will not be classed as "ADULT" and exactly what will and will not be permitted in the "Mature" areas. Nor have they explained why Mature is not adult anymore. Accounts accessing Adult areas must be verified using payment on file. They refuse to tell us how many accounts this effects, how much these accounts spend, how many of them already use adult areas, how many they estimate will leave, how much land they rent etc. They will not even tell us what percentage of the regular users they make up. Private Estates with adult material will have to flag their ESTATE Adult. No Sim or Parcel setting, the whole damn estate has to be ADULT. They refuse to tell us if they are going to let us reconfigure estates for free. Or why it is estate and not Sim or parcel. No discussion of compensation for our costs if we have to move. No discussion of compensation if they adversely effect our sales or kill our businesses or Sims. They refuse to engage in any meaningful discussion on the subject. Basically they refuse to talk about it , period. |
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Fudgey Jenkins
Registered User
Join date: 9 Sep 2007
Posts: 81
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03-20-2009 00:18
kinda off topic, but not really has anybody else seen a drop in sales since this was announced? And I mean any business, not just ones most likely to be impacted. I saw one big hit a couple weeks ago on my clothing store when the security was upped on xstreet and there were login problems from it, and I was just starting to see recovery from that when this announcement was made and now my sales have been pitiful this entire week. both in world and on xstreet. I'll admit with the economy, and spring break in many places it could just be coincidence... but I'm wondering if this is already affecting us. I was suposed to do a couple of commission builds this month for adult type stuff.. bolth backed out... now i'm rather broke this month D= |
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Vorren Voltaire
General Contractor
Join date: 4 Jul 2006
Posts: 78
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03-20-2009 00:43
OK, So, so far we have what?? The Grand announcement from SL. The claim it only effects 2 to 4 % then changed to 4 to 6%. A figure they refuse to explain in detail or tell us how they came up with it. Even though we all know the figure is more like 10 times that. They refuse to explain what will or will not be classed as "ADULT" and exactly what will and will not be permitted in the "Mature" areas. Nor have they explained why Mature is not adult anymore. Accounts accessing Adult areas must be verified using payment on file. They refuse to tell us how many accounts this effects, how much these accounts spend, how many of them already use adult areas, how many they estimate will leave, how much land they rent etc. They will not even tell us what percentage of the regular users they make up. Private Estates with adult material will have to flag their ESTATE Adult. No Sim or Parcel setting, the whole damn estate has to be ADULT. They refuse to tell us if they are going to let us reconfigure estates for free. Or why it is estate and not Sim or parcel. No discussion of compensation for our costs if we have to move. No discussion of compensation if they adversely effect our sales or kill our businesses or Sims. They refuse to engage in any meaningful discussion on the subject. Basically they refuse to talk about it , period. I love that you can use direct quotes in these forums, I couldn't have said it any better. Wise up, LL and PLEASE start talking to those that are going to be affected by this scheme of yours. before this PR stunt backfires. |
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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03-20-2009 02:17
NO Not anymore. And the whole inworld-economy is built on that trust. Without that trust people won't invest their money here. And that is bad for SL as a whole! I have the feeling that the powers-that-be at LL haven't realized that yet. No, I don't trust Linden Labs either. I have not trusted them for some time now. It is their job to earn my trust back. Before I lost trust in LL, I payed a decent sized tier. My trust was lost with the last round of Age-Verification and proposed Censorship, coupled with the horrid performance of SL, making it impossible to enjoy the land I payed for with what I felt was a pretty big expense. To this day, I have not spent anything in SL, or made anything in SL that I am not afraid to lose. The money I used to spend within SL has been shifted to other hobbies that I don't really need. This is their loss. I imagine there are others who have done the same. _____________________
~*Ryanna Enfield*~
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