Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

I asked this question in one of the locked threads but got no reply, so I'll try again...

I understand that furniture stores that sell some furniture with sex animations will be ok where they are as long "as long people are not having sex in the stores". For instance, I sell about 1000 items in my furniture store and about 50 (~5%) of them have sex animations in them. People often need to see the animations so that they can decide whether or not they want them, which means that people sometimes test them, fully clothed, but in public. Imo, they are not "having sex" - they are looking at the animations with a view to buying, but would it be considered by LL as "having sex"? Would such stores would be required to move?


Another important question...

Is LL considering editing people's profile picks to point them to the new locations of places that are compelled to move? If the picks are not changed to point to the new locations, then many of those places' All search rankings will tank, and their sales will plummet, until the picks are built up again - some considerable time in many cases.

I am not bothered about age verification per say or arguing against it in any way, it may curtail a few of the kids entering SL.
I thought LL already did clearly state SL is an adult platform and all users must be over 18, they kick out any minors found on the grid I believe what more can they be expected to do reasonably.
As far as adult web sites are concerned goto google type in free porn and se what comes up where is the age verification?

Sorry but you do not need to search for sex places in SL, just be unfortunate where you buy land, an example is visit Yadni's Junkyard take a walk out onto the road there and what do you find?
Around six months back it was a place renting porn videos.
Another is walk along the linden road in Gorynych sim and what do you come accross?
That place with its shouters was there when I had a house behind it a while back and was still there when I bought a road side parcel last week, so sex video areas are not hidden away requiring to be searched out at all.

Sure you can see what it is and walk away but you still saw it, I personally couldn't care less what went on inside it seemed to be a video stream rental place, but the shouters were a real nuisance, something I didn't hear when I dropped by to get the land and something LL never enforced the removal of.

Lord:
Second Life grid is just the platform. Same as the Internet Web. But it goes beyond servers. People worked hard to create this wonderful world. They invested a lot of money. And you are right - this is not democracy. You are a customer here. Do you want to say that customers have no rights even if they spend hundreds of dollars each month on tier fees. Do you realize that nobody is asking for your opinion, nobody is listening to you. Do you realize that 99% of residents here are against this new law. But enough said. I ask for just one thing. Let`s have the poll in world. Let ask people what they really think. Not here on the forums, but before they log in to SL. Let`s just ask them. I am sure you are not afraid to see results, are you.

And yes, I am here to help. I am here to help you understand what is going on. Moving people to the ghetto happened many times in our history. During WWII people were asked to move to ghettos and same arguments were used: You will be between your own kind, Your business will be much better, you must go because the rest of us do not like the way you look, the way you think, the way you behave, but don`t worry. it will be painless and free of charge. I dont need to remind anyone how this ended.

I am not saying that we are in the same situation now. Because our lives are not in danger. Only our money and our dignity is at stake here. do you think it is not worth to fight for your rights. Let`s our voice be heard.

//Remember that yes we put content into the world and yes to a degree it is shaped by us //but its not RL so the same rules do not apply

I agree. But then if the same rules do not apply... Why we even discuss about implementing same rules like in rl. And what is the difference when you have money invested and you need to move your business to the ghetto in SL or RL. It`s still same money. The land is virtual, our clothes are virtual, but our money, our time is not. There is alive breathing human behind each of the avatars. Remember that.

But you can always sit down, watch and do not care. I am sure everyone will be happy at the end of transition (except those who will not survive it

If they wer only suggestiong it for "NEW" accounts a lot less of us would be upset.

The fact is they plan to make it impossible for avatars that ahve been here for years to access any adult. EVEN their own sims unless they hand over information that many of them don't wish to, object to, or don't have.

And aside from teh fact they spend money, rent land, donate to sim, etc. Many are our freinds, partners, etc.

Not to mention the Lindens in their usual refusal to give details have not explained how i would verify my alts they force me to have for business here.

This is something LL needs to address, sex animations are they allowed to be displayed in mature areas?
A shop selling beds with animations in should be kept as mature in my opinion, as most furniture stores have animated beds which are a small but profitable part of their business.
Who will be held responsible for using a sex bed in a public place, the owner or the user?



LOL with your damn bots its not going to stay low for long, mind you, all the other relocated businesses will probably be filling the new adult sims with bots to, so you might not be able to get any real customers in the sims.

For all those interested a new group has been setup, free to join, its time to stand up to LL, to help them see the error of their ways and help them to make a better sl.

The group is called:

"BOYCOTT the LL ADULT Conctratn Camp"

Join, Discuss, make it BIG, to big for LL to ignore. Its time to stand up and be counted, we build this world, SL is US, without us LL is just servers humming in the darkness.

Love

Photon

Why do you not want to verify your age?
What is the problem with verification?
Who does not have means to age verify such as a debit card?

I really don't get it the argument against verification.

Is it some sort of desire to hide what they are doing in SL?

That is not supposed to be ridiculing btw even if it sounds that way, I just don't get the argument against account verification.

I don't think it will even stop kids from entering SL as such verification is so easy to get hold of, so is there a point for it or against it.

A genuine point, not I can't get a bank account, debit card / credit card because it is simply not true, with pre pay credit cards.

I to have invested a lot of time and money here also, but i also understand it could in theory end tomorrow with no recourse for me to claim anything back. So many see SL as RL and that they have rights over and above normal consumer law. If people think LL are breaking these consumer laws then they should challenge LL in court as one would with defective goods etc. I love this place but reality it is a house of cards a new world that is being developed on the fly and that includes rules etc. LL should never have done away with verification at sign up imho.



No i am not saying we have no rights as customers as i spend several hundred dollars a month on tier etc. LL is not obliged to ask for our opinion just as Wal mart and other companies do not ask for the customers opinions en masse. How do you know that nobody is listening to us? this is a big happening and LL is not a big company in the same way so things take time. How do you know 99% of residents here are against the change, is there statistics to back the claim up? and its not a law, its a change in the terms with which we agree to play in SL



Great if LL wants a poll then i am sure they will conduct one, I am not afraid to see the results, I run 100% adult content that is fully affected by these changes but irrespective i will change my model here to suit the new changes as and when they happen, but then i am not afraid of change, especially change that i personally agree with as an adult content provider both RL and here and i think perhaps the poll results would be different to the 99% that you imagine are against it.



and then you go and Goodwin the thread, shame on you parralleing such a bad thing with SL there is no comparison in my mind we are customers to a company and if the company doesn't do what we want it to do you have 2 choices, buy shares and effect a change from inside out, or quit trading with them and leave the company to its demise. Maybe after spending 10 years in the Military with 2 years in active service recently it has taught me that there is more to life than getting hung up on something i cannot directly change, however instead we can work together with the company to change it with minimal damage to us, because i believe it will happen, so why not work with LL to effect good changes but mine is just one adult content providers opinions amongst many and i respect everyones opinion even tho it may differ to mine.

"Only people who are guilty mind being put on trial."


Do you *really* need a list?


Um, lots of people?

Your issue seems to be with shouters rather than adult content. If the shouters were advertising streaming movies about fast cars, horse racing, rifle shooting, stamp collecting etc. you would probably find the shouters just as annoying and wish LL would move or remove them.

This I believe is the main thing that LL has missed - it is anti-social and inconsiderate behaviour that people really want addressed. Not all adult content is anti-social and inconsiderate and not all anti-social and inconsiderate content is adult.

Matthew

Bots have such a minimal effect on the All search that only those who are ignorant of it would use them for those rankings, and it's the All search rankings that will be hit hard for many places unless LL edits people's current Picks to point to the new locations. And that's on top of drastically reducing their market, as many or most people will not be age-verified - a double whammy.

Lord,

If this was really about verification, i don't think so many people would be upset.

The first attempt was age check. SL used a company who has a reputation for collecting personal data for use in marketing.

Now SL is trying forced Payment Information, which of course we all know, links a account to your personal data. You don't need to sell this data, etc, or even keep it after you get it, all you need is to get it and all of a sudden sl can give out hugh volumes of marketing info to attract companies to market to members.

"31 percent of users bought a new Blueray in the last 6 months with a credit card". Wow Sony come look, you can market all these people new prodcuts.

If SL Was serious about this, they would have looked at the Trusted Age Verifications systems for Europe and North America.

If this was designed as a new way to protect against youth getting on the Adult Sims, they would have Grand Fathered it in as they have Stated many times, they DON'T believe there is a serious problem with it right now

If this was about alts, they would have a way for us to Tie all the alts we have to one master account, hell they could ahve a wonderful system there, but they don't.

As for if you don't like it leave.

Easy for someone to say if they don't care about loosing the business, sims, friends, etc they built up on SL.

and again will point out, yes this is a Corporation, but one that survives on our money.

But again i still suspect that there are a large group of bean counters at sl right now calculating the cost of lossing the free members that will not be forced into the payment info scheme sl is suggestion, and lets not forget these people to buy lindens, do put real money in the system, rent land, have homes, but goods, tip, donate, etc.

And 10 of us yesterday decided to look through a few things and found as a group, 42.5 percent of the users online in the sims we checked were "no payment Info"

One of us even went to a large PG Mall. out of 36 avatars she check, 29 had No payment info on file. Yet 16 made purchases while she hung out there.

In BDSM is it worst still as many don't want any risk of anyone finding out who they are in real life or their interests in BDSM. I have been todl several times this week. I use an alt to come here because i don't want to risk bringing my Paid Account here and have anyone find out.

I beileve once they finish, just like last year this will die out.

Now if the Lindens want to come up with a sensable way to fix the mainland, which by the way they control and have don't little to manage up till now, then come up with a complete plan with details and put ti out there, then start sim by sim to work with the people to get it where they want.

it's not often you will see a child av agreeing with someone in BDSM but LS, I certainly applaud your comments.

ty
Toy

The only boobs we allow to be seen all the time are in Washington, DC.

okay, lost my coffee on that

A few questions not asked yet!

Will this Adult themed continent be available for anyone to purchase land on, or do you have to be selling or promoting a adult lifestyle?

Like could I buy land there although I won't have anything deemed adult at all, just selling PG stuff?

And if so, how would LL act on a AR from a customer who came to my PG shop on the adult continent and was shocked with the surroundings?

The big question being, how do you protect 'Age Verified' residents who inadvertently land on the Adult Continent and don't want to see that content?

Yes these are called trick questions, the trick is to answer them effectively.

But why do you assume that there is no chance to stop it. It is not such a big deal. If I remember correctly we are here to express our point of view. You decided that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. If we are going to accept everything as is, then nothing will ever change. We would still be in caves. I believe in people. I know that people can accomplish wonderful things. And there are so many problems in rl world, so when I look at SL... I see this as no big deal. We can really change what is going on here. We came here so we can create something more than just another world full of problems. if people are able to face more serious and more dangerous problems in rl, then our SL problems are just piece of cake. Turn off TV, do not watch mainstream media, because they want us to act like a sheep. Believe in yourself. Everyone of you should start to think.

We can really do this. We are here because we want to be here. Nobody is forcing us to participate in SL. We all joined this wonderful world voluntarily. But it doesnt mean that we have no rights. Some of you are creative people. You accomplished that by yourself. Whatever you created here is your intellectual property. So dont tell me we cant do anything. Dont tell me we have no rights. We dont have now, but the fight has begun...

One year ago, a credit card and paypal info was not enough to be age verified. Now magically it is acceptable. Why. Because it was stupid idea and nobody followed it or in most of the cases couldnt follow especially those living outside U.S. And it looked like the end of the world, credit card was not enough and thats it. But it all changed, now it is completely alright... Magic.. I dont think so. Anything can be adjusted. It is up to us to decide. Nobody ever accomplished anything by force. There will be always resistance.

Thanks

First off, I am verified, etc. Have to be to get money out of SL and to own my sims, etc.

Secondly, there are many reasons.

One: Trust.

Ok, you really have to grow up with this to understand it, but it has been explained to me many times. We in North America hand over our personal data at an alarming rate. In europe, they have grown up with parents and grand parents and stories of war, nazis, gestapo, families killed, reems and reems of informaiton found after the war, etc.

Secondly, SL Offers no other option that credit card for Europeens. No debit card, no third Party Europeen option.

Ask why these free accounts many who are verified on Paypal, have to suddenly do it on sl? SL had no problems taking their money all this time from paypal.

privacy.

Many simply want to keep their sl lifes completely separate from their Real Ones.

The Reasons are many. The main point is, stop asking why and start asking Why did SL allow them to come online, set up lifes, build, make friends, etc. and now suddenly says, sorry hand it over or leave.

If SL was saying all NEW Accounts had to do it, then fine, but no they want to force all accounts they have allowed here for months and years to suddenly do it.

I oppose the proposals solely on the footing that they seem designed to restrict freedom of expression and choice. I am age verified and have PIOF.

Undoubtedly some locations and adverts/search results expressly extolling the virtues "free sex" and "porn" and extreme "sexual acts" are tacky or seedy and generally demonstrate poor taste. However, they have never offended me.

The only occasions upon which I have been caused offence in SL is by the inappropriate behaviour of a small minority of "residents" who plainly are in RL people who are either pathetic or have no social skills. Invariably, the "residents" in question have been recently hatched noobs displaying no PIOF. The behaviour in question has tended to follow a predictable course and undoubtedly amounts to sexual harassment in any event. Typically:
(1) Noob arrives in bar and asks for sex in open chat and IMs.
(2) Noob is told his behaviour is inappropriate and asked to leave.
(3) Noob becomes agressive and uses all manner of foul language.
(4) Noob drops his pants and attaches male attachement.
(5) Noob is booted from SIM.
I used to be spend most of my time in a very popular bar in sl but have ceased going there since a noob hatching plant opened on the same sim and such behaviour started to occur there on a regular basis.

No doubt the offending noob is pretty soon AR'd and banned from SL, but only to reappear a short while later with a new name (and still unverified in all respects) for the purpose of repeating his offensive behaviour. These people are the problem in SL and the present proposals offer no solution whatever. This tedious and offensive behaviour will continue in PG and "sanitised" M locations. The current proposals offer no solution. I think that some process of identity verfication on sign up for everybody would significantly reduce this offensive behaviour but I am concerned that, for the various reasons identified by others in this forum, it would bar some responsible residents from accessing SL.

This is my biggest gripe. We are marketed and sold to death by the corporates, it is really nice not have them throwing their adtrash at us in SL.I am POIF so I guess I'm covered, but I would never take part in the Aristotle Data Marketing scheme. I'm not giving up my SSN, DL or passport number just to play what still is essentially a game/entertainment. Even IF the grids aren't merged, I do think the way is being paved to where we will see all those shiny RL logos popping up on the mainland, perhaps even on our screens in our viewer. They should be kept to their own sims, not real residents.

I am amazed at how this bothers some people. "What are you hiding?"

My answer is "Why do you care?"

I sign up for this. We need to start to believe in ourselves. We need to show the entire world that enough is enough. Everyone should join.

This is all about big corporations wanting to join SL and make money. The problem is they dont know how to do it. Look at their sims. They are all empty. Real clothing companies trying to sell their products in SL resulted in total disaster for them. Playboy tried to enter SL, they failed. Internet was once user created world, but when big corporations came, everything changed. Now you have millions of ads around Internet and more porn than anywhere else. Do not let this happen to SL. Look at this from another side, if you agree to adult continent, then we wont have 4% of adult cartoon content in SL. We will have thousands of real porn corporations coming to SL and selling their movies and pics. This is what will happen. Believe me or not.

I never assume anything that i do not have the full facts to however LL have stated this will happen and i have no reason to disbelieve that at this time.



Do you really know what i am thinking??



I am not saying just accept the changes, i am saying is not better to work with the company to effect change that will benefit all of us adult content providers from people like us that have a BDSM sim to your self who is a financial dominatrix and have your slaves support your island



Well SL problems for me are small



I always believe in myself and what i can achieve however i am not a LL shareholder so am unable to shape policy other than conducting a reasonable dialogue and hopefully passing my POV to them rather than ranting and raving that LL is the devil incarnate



As a customer to LL we are covered with various consumer laws as consumers are, however rights we gave to LL when we signed the TOS to play here and agreed to play by LL rules.



Can i suggest that you take a long hard look at the TOS and if there is a clause that allows us to fight this please let me know.