Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

The low number of users who leave the Mature box unchecked is kind of the point. Those are the business and educational users.

It's not just on page 5 that the trash is showing up, either.

This whole idea is ridiculous. This will destroy Second Life. You can't write morality into the game by the lowest common denominator, which is precisely what you're trying to do. You're going to end up harming far more people than you intend to 'save' via your methods.

Where did you come up with some of this BS anyway? Combat Sims are 'Rated R' and thus 'Adult'? Do you even watch movies in the United States? There are PG rated movies that have more violence and blood than most Combat Sims can actually have.

Do you even actually LISTEN to your residents? Or do you only listen to the ones who are yelling 'OBSCENE!!!'?

I just heard about this today, and I'm trying to catch up... Would anyone be so kind as to point me in the direction of where LL explains their reasoning behind this geographic separation law? I don't have an adult business, nor have I yet to partisipate in Adult Activities, as I'm still pretty new and have been too busy building on my new land, BUT, I must say Blue and Blondin, this is really sounding a little fascist, don't you think? It speaks to LL's lack of faith in the intelligence of SL residents.

I REALLY don't think we NEED LL to do this for us. I have faith that WE THE people are smart and creative enough to come up with our own solutions, if we want a business or service moved out of our area? Why not just allow us to form homeowner associations, and deal with these things on our own.

Recently our RL home owners association HELPED, move a strip club that we felt was in a inappropriate location. We all got together, and found a better location for the club, and went to the owner and explained how we felt, told him about the new location, and offered to pay his first months rent for inconveniencing him. Since the owner didn't want to be in an area in which he wasn't wanted, he willingly and happily accepted our offer! We didn't call in the police or the government to come in and FORCE the man and his business out against his will.

No one wants to be anywhere they're not wanted, so why not find out why adult businesses aren't currently using the sims that are already designated as "Adult" sims, set up a designated area that CATERS TO THEIR NEEDS AND CONCERNS, offer to help people find a great place in that area, entice them with a first month free, or other more appealing incentive, and let them come voluntarily and let us residents, using non-aggressive, and non forceful means, deal with anyone that doesn't go, and that we feel is inappropriate for our area!

I can understand the search results thing, but the geographic separation law is WAY too fascist!

Just to throw in some possibly relevant information regarding, Reuters' reasons for quitting SL.

Make of it what you will - definitely worth a read, if you're not already aware:

http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/11/why-reuters-left-second-life-and-how-linden-lab-can-fix-it

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/nov/23/reuters-quits-secondlife

and...

http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/10/second-life-offers-business-teleconferencing-now-penis-free



*I* Am STILL Adult Content (which doesn't seem to have anything to do really with the information in these Reuters stories - I've never thrown a penis about in SL)

you know, things like this failed troll.

Indeed. Reliability is way up over a couple years ago, but they need to be shooting for "five nines" for EVERY sim, EVERY service, if they're going to get real business interest.

When I can buy a gift card for Linden Dollars or a Premium Account next to the gift card for IMVU money (whatever it's called) I saw at at a checkout line one day last year, THEN I'll be willing to grant that Linden Labs has been doing enough advertising.

I'm afraid to agree with this one. Redesign it, maybe, but the game is inherently complex... and SL's interface has been in a "two steps back for every step forward" mode for quite a while, with things like a search bar and lag meter.

Really, they need a whole new UI project, maybe scripted in Javascript or Lua, so that users can customize and theme the UI themselves.

Actually, American Indian is the preferred term.

I read the report, it made some valid points, and didn't mention the adult content at all.

"But here's how Linden Lab can make Second Life more fun and a better business:

1.Build good newbie-oriented content. Linden has always taken the position they're in the 3D platform business, and can't be expected to build anything with their own tools or even know what others are doing in Second Life. That argument didn't fly when the gambling scandal broke and it doesn't work now. Second Life has a monster learning curve, and Linden Lab needs to hold new users' hands through every step of their first five or six hours. A big content push isn't even that expensive: the company has proven it can pay Second Lifers $10/hr to do these things and have skilled content creators begging for the job.
2.Acknowledge that Second Life's reputation is now a liability. This isn't the worst thing in the world, but it does mean Second Life can't sit back and hope word-of-mouth brings in hordes of new users like it did back in 2006. Second Life needs to advertise, and the ads need to be hip. New CEO Mark Kingdon has an ad background and should have the right résumé to pull off a makeover.
3.Radically simplify the user interface. The Second Life UI is a mess, and there's been no major changes to it in Second Life's 5+ years. Making the Second Life experience easy-to-use, even graceful, isn't a nice-to-have, it's a business imperative.
4.Abandon the idea that Second Life is a business app. I wasn't in Second Life to play, I was there on assignment for Reuters. The login server would crash. I'd try to reach sources, but Second Life's IM window would hang on "waiting" all day when trying to figure out who was online. "Teleports" -- the ability to move from point to point anywhere in Second Life -- would stop working and I'd get locked out of my own office. These weren't one-offs, they were my daily, first-hand, happens-all-the-time experiences. For all its bugs, Second Life is tolerable as a playground, but enterprise users will never and should never use it for business. Re-focus on the core mission: Keeping the hobbyists happy and converting potential recruits into hardcore (read: fees-paying) users.
None of these things will make Second Life palatable to the general public, but it will draw new traffic and keep a lot more potential users with the right temperment for Second Life from quitting in frustration on their first day. That might be enough for the next year or two.

There's an incredible depth, passion, and camaraderie to the Second Life community that more popular online experiences like MySpace or World of Warcraft can't match. And while I didn't find it compelling, there really is something awesome about buying be able to "buy" a grid of blank 3D space, mold it like clay into an elven forest, a futuristic space station, or a bdsm dungeon, and then invite your friends to hang out."

yah, pretty much says it.

What I find disturbing is that there was never a separation in the first place, between the Teen Grid and the Main Grid. Who's moronic idea was it to allow adult and mature content in SL, and allow minors access to it at all? There should have been a SEPARATE grid for the kiddies, pure and simple. Just pure common sense.
Then there's the issue of "adults" being segregated over "adult" content. There is PG and Mature, and those would suffice in any sane situation. Don't want sex or violence? Stay in PG areas and searches! Want sex and/or violence? Use Mature searches, and go to Mature areas! ...where is this a confusing or difficult to implement concept?
And I agree fully that age verification should have been a part of obtaining a Second Life account from the beginning - to KEEP MINORS ON THEIR OWN DANG GRID, and allow ADULTS to use the ADULT GRID. But since this incredibly obvious method was too sensible to include, now they must play "patch-up"... so let's get it on! Require age verification, and kick out the kids from the adult grid! It's insane to allow them access, and then run around with torches and pitchforks looking for adults who don't cater to Disneyland values, n'est ce pas?
This is a Virtual world, and people come here to explore and enjoy the FREEDOM that this allows, which the "meat world" denies us. If we are to REGULATE and ENFORCE conformity to the value systems of a squalling bunch of Puritans (most of whom would simply DIE if their own closets were opened and examined, think Jimmy Swaggert et. al.) then we may as well enforce speed limits, require helmets to be worn to be allowed to ride motorcycles, demand proof of age to serve virtual alcoholic beverages, and all the rest that goes with the territory of bureaucratic intervention into the free enjoyment of what is possible.
Let's have some SANITY enter the decision-making process for a change.

SL is not a place to be used for business, if you can't get RL business methods and models out of your head, no! But there *are* businesses using SL to their advantage, because they (to use a much-overused but telling cliche) "think outside the box".

Ah, a thought.

If and when this happens, people being forced to move to the new continent MUST be given equivalent amounts of land FOR TRADE with their existing parcels on the mainland. They CANNOT be required to purchase it, since you are going to FORCE this upon them.

Also, they MUST be given time to move their builds from one continent to the other.

To simply force them to move by kicking them off their land (or even worse, requiring them to sell their land) and forcing their builds into their pockets is wrong on so many levels, and will seriously hurt your world.

Blondin has already stated that this is what is planned. Meter for meter swap

only a hot dog has two...

This will be maybe the last big battle of a generation of ex-european pilgrimfathers-kids against the erotic entropy in the crystal palace wich we call modern, democratic western world. This battle will be LG = Linden guided, but they will lose. USA is a young nation-construct. Historical seen not matured, not thousands of years background, not knowing much about themselfs, still in discovering mode, political seen, like kids in puberty. Main hobby: playing with muscles and militarism, even in biz, where a manager is called the martialic sounding name "chief executive officer"....like biz would have to be a battle too, with generals and troops, lol, ever in workout mode, artificial beauty mode, much masks and maskerades. Too artificial cool, that it could be true. I point especially on the biz scene and the media scene. I point not on the much more relaxed citizens, wich are - as majority - much more open and easy going, (if its not KKK, or something bad), I learned so far, - and wich would like more personal freedom, to be themselfs.

Because of that, they like the game very much. It *gave* that freedom excellent so far.

So much fear the leader-class have, when it goes about to see a human skin, even as cartoon drawen...

A simple nipple, covered with a kind of metallic-jewelery causes direct a national crisis, followed - up by media-censoring actions and seconds or minutes "safe time" when sending something live (lol) - thinking on the artificial "scandal" around Mrs. Jackson, same with the free arm fashion of the first lady Michelle Obama...wich are THE debate actualy.

*rolling eyes*

My goodness... this is not an attack of the Talibans.

It is just peaceful skin... no harm! A nipple is NOT dangerous and not explosive. Trust me. It is true!

While me is laying in spring at the river danubia, in the very near of the middle of my capital city Vienna Austrija in one of the largest nudist areas of a european city, complete relaxed, with a notebook in front of my nose and the early spring sun on my skin, while families, oldies, teenagers, young couples, some babys, some people from all over the world, even tourists, having a good time here on free and holiday days and if they would know what a company like LL is starting, like it would be a mobilization of a war on eros and a war on cartoon-skins, they would laugh about them until belly hurts.

Such a peaceful atmosphere everywhere on globe, when people from all so called classes are relaxing free of conventions and status symbols - even much edu and biz people relaxing here, plus students from the nearby university, often with books equiped - the atmo creates equality by itself, because without clothes, we are all equal.

Even some sex happens occasional in the environment in the bushes and woods.

And? No one cares. No one takes notice.

Well: we do have here our burning man festival each and every day, metaphoric seen, but we call it just free time and taking a good healthy sunbath and some swimming, but even art events can happen from time to time, spontan - no fences around, no rules, no stress, no security needed, everyone welcome, all sorts of lifestyles of a metropole city. Without neurotic ratings, not outsourced into any desert, just and easy near the middle of a modern metropole.

No one complains, all are happy, it is just normal and relaxed since decades. Because sun on free skin makes people happy in general. No ratings, no stress and no nervosity. The real second life, so to speak.

So please stop that campaign, LL, because it is boring and stress in one. It is not a good biz behavior to put stress on paying customers.

And a thousand time said: if you need a PG continent, then make one. Give Ursula as PG area (what a name, the name of a famous holy nun...for an "adult" continent...hahahaha) to those, who want to be logged in there as parent guided (lol)

No need to attack other peoples freedom - even not for money reasons.

I being poor, I've have only my dreams, as I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams.

Here is the problem. Age verification is a barrier to entry for legitimate users, an invasion of privacy and it is an increase in liability to the Lindens.

In some countries the Age Verification criteria are explicitly prohibited by law. In all cases, using a third party verification service means you are coupling your RL identity with your SL identity to somebody other than the Lindens. In no other place on the Internet is there such an invasion for an allegedly free service. Frankly, my local sex toy and adult video store neither asks for nor is legally required to ask for ID for me to be simply in it.

The content creators need an audience/customer base for whom the service is free because, frankly, SL is a crap value proposition for anyone who just a consumer and not a creator. If one doesn't wish to make things that persist in-world and be provider of the product or performance we create it's just plain not worth paying for as a service. Imagine if you had to pay to read blogs? Tens of thousands of players go for years without PIOF or PIU. They earn their pittance of Lindens however and buy clothes skin and hair and call it a day. They are, however, the *audience* for those who want to create. Whether as a maker or performer or service provider. THOSE people, those who create ultimately have to be PIOF or PIU to move past the most niche levels of success. Why? because you need to pay to have your venue or product(s) persist in world. Sure, thousands of exceptions for people who have a friend who is PIU or PIOF but, in the end, the friend is doing the paying. What The Lindens are doing is making those who make the reasons to come to SL have no audience. There's simply a LONG way to go before SL is like the web at large and there's enough 'mainstream' content to make the barriers to entry worth the effort for a 'have to pay/have to verify' audience.

You might pay to read an EXCEPTIONAL blog but to weed through ten thousand of them to find that one and pay each time? Never happen. It works on the web because there's no barrier to entry for the advertiser eyeballs and almost none for the content creator.

For now, SL is both the content and the backbone. Until the micro-economy can exist outside SL, until the nascent 'grids' can have inventory exist and pass fluidly, until I can host a sim on my computer and have it be part of 'the metaverse' then the Lindens have a lock. Now that is fine with me. I have a paid account happily. But the value of that account depends on the unpaid ones. Nany's project, whether she understands this or not ALSO depends on the unpaid/unverified users.

Has anyone noticed that SL's brilliant success at making 'presence' matter still hasn't really made location matter? If you make content people want, they don't find it by walking or flying. No matter how 'geographical' SL is, there's no 'foot traffic'. You have to MAKE your foot traffic.

People who pay for something do it because they want what's there. We're a very, very long way from a density and value of 'educational/political/activism' content being high enough to overcome the enormous barriers to entry for SL. SL is hard to use. it demands a fast and unmetered connection. It demands an enormous amount of time to get anything done even if you are completely facile with how to use it. Being 'in' the world is actually a huge barrier to a good UI for 3d modeling and animation. Real 3D authoring apps are multi-window, multi-view.

Now, JUST like a web hosting provider, the person who wants their content to persist and be visible and under their design and control, the customer has to pay. Just like a web hosting service, this content is made available to the customers or just audience of the content creator.

In moving to the model implicit in their policy change they raise the barriers to entry. They devalue the market by fragmenting the audience and they seriously risk falling out of the protections afforded them as a common carrier.

Bottom line, there are better sources for about any sort of entertainment you can get on SL. ONLY presence and community make it worth the effort and create a market. Screw around too much with these essential truths and it collapses. Anybody notice how well Google did when they tried it? They have LOTS of money. Lindens don't and if they do this they risk breaking the one thing they have that is intrinsically valuable. Community.

- Kyle

Ann, I have always found you to be very well researched and measured, but what sources do you have concerning the Build Tools being removed? [note have only skimmed and came full stop right here]

I have just listened to the audio of the recent meeting with adult content creators/providers here:

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/03/25/follow-up-adult-content-changes

3/27 - Adult content merchant brownbag

Its 88Mb but well worth a listen as a lot of questions asked here are being answered. The text transcript isn't there at time of posting this but i would suggest that all the doom sayers have a listen

LL doesn't seem to want to ban us all and seems on the face of it to be listening.

just one mans opinion though

...how will they explain, in El Reg's words, "why they spent tens of thousands of dollars on the digital equivalent of a wife-swapping party on an oil rig"?

haha!

I can answer that. It's all they could think of doing here. It's a lack of imagination.

Thanks Lord - very useful

Hey, NDN is not failed! He is nice avatar, custom made for the director of a Chicago Urban Indian organization, but women like to play with him too. He's got a house and clothes and a little money in his account.

[NB, This may not be the case in Canada. You should probably check before you use the term there.]

Lets hope that people listen to it now lol

It would be interesting to hear from any of the people who were there, although I believe a couple have already posted in the forum. Jack's office hours post also makes interesting reading, although I can't find a link ( I kept a copy, though). If the right hand has started talking to the left, that alone would be an improvement!

Sorry this makes no sense - if it doesn't matter that someone can cam into an adult sim from a PG sim because the owner is Anshe Chung, then it logically follows that if Anshe Chung doesn't flag a sim as adult it doesn't matter because it is owned by Anshe Chung.

Matthew

Better inter office communication would be a good idea I hope as the time progresses and more meetings are held that will happen