Feedback on the Mainland

By the way, Thank you Jack for posting this to the forums and allowing resident feedback. It is nice to know that we do have the opportunity to voice our strong opinions and be heard. I hope that with changes within the SL/LL organization that more of these types of postings occur. Take it from a long time provider of customer service in a large institution, to serve your customers, you need feedback.

Linden roads are laid out and have land apportioned to them (held by Governor Linden) before sims are ever first sold at auction. Using the map, it's usually really easy to tell if there is going to be a road in any mainland sim. If you need help with this, feel free to contact me at NCI and I will show you how to look for them.

Sure, some people are. These are the people ballsy enough to tell people to basically turn their stuff off if they don't want it touched, that they should have the right to trespass on their land or wondering why such things exist at all.

I made my banline suggestion into a jira. Acknowlegement to those whose concerns prompted it. Please feel free to tear it to shreds....

Setting back the effective position of access restriction lines inside parcel boundaries would have a number of strong beneficial effects on resident experience...

[1] It would prevent the establishment of banlines surrounding small parcels which have been widely used for harrasment and extortion.
[2] It would prevent residents colliding with the banlines of neighbouring parcels while still on their own land, as well as
[3] reducing their exposure to the deleterious visual manifestations.
[4] It would prevent the malicious use of banlines to restrict parcel access.
[5] It would ensure free passage along all parcel boundaries, greatly improving the ability to traverse regions at ground level, which is often subject to severe unintended restriction by banlines on contiguous parcels (even diagonally).

The distance of the set-back could be either 2 or 4 meters. 2 meters would achieve most of the benefits described, while not substantially decreasing the protected area of a "normal" 32x64 512m parcel. It would be effective for aim [1] for parcels with one dimension of the minimum 4 meters. 4 meters would be more effrective for aims [1] and [2], but would more significantly reduce the protected area of small parcels.

This reminds me of the "meeting from hell". 700 some posts, a lot of thought, debate, dialog, synthesis, and even cordiality.

No action items, though.

Nope. Privacy is even more of an illusion in SL than in RL.

At this point, there is really nothing that can be done to prevent it, outside of parcel visibility on the server side, but LL has been loathe to implement such things, so I wouldn't expect it to happen.

Those were already decided upon before the meeting was called.

We're still trying to figure out the real point of this thread....

I can't spend all night reading the 700+ replies and can't know if this subject has come up, so ...

There are third parties working on SL-compatible grids that are significantly less expensive than what can be purchased on the original SL grid. As the third parties get up and running and work out the bugs, what will Linden Labs do to continue making the purchase of thier own land an attractive option for residents?

Thank you for your time,

Gig

I would love to hear about more mainland options since I currently pay a full tier, but do not have a full sim yet (I have one great neighbor). I like my monthly payment and I opted long ago not to own an island. I am happy I have stuck with this decision, since I find the mainland to be quite sufficient in functionality. This formula has worked for me since 05. I have to admit if these new features come with a larger bill, I am afraid my land owning days will come to an end. I am willing to hear the new options that are being planned. I would love to see the ability to move to another island .. trading land for land. I would love to see more texture controls on the land and the ability to raise and lower land more then the abilities we currently have. Beyond that I am happy where I am.

The true beauty of Mainland is Freedom[/QUOTE]


Does that freedom include the freedom to block the view of your ugly ad towers?

The only way I can see zoned areas work is if they have strict rules.

Residential: Just residential; no yard sales.
Commercial: Just commercial no residential.

In SL that impossible really.

Residential: No one can stop you from setting up a house and making everything in it "For Sale"

Commercial: No one can stop you from setting up a furniture business and sell nothing.

Clubs: What is the difference between a club and a house party?

Garage Sale or Impromptu Store?

When does one cross the line? Who is going to enforce these zones? Will we be left to police ourselves again?

As nice of an idea as zoning sounds... unless you have a way to enforce the rules; then it just sounds good on paper.

I will wait to hear the details... before I can give this a thumbs up or down.

*Trin

People can see into you home whether you choose to use banlines or not...Haven't you wondered how those wretched bands of text, all across sl, being activated when anyone wanders into them, impact on sl's performance. ???

Never been shopping and got pinned between 4 sets of them with no apparent way out ?

If land settings are correct no one can build on you land and no one can leave their objects there. Theres no way for anyone to vandalise or damage items either. As for people straying into your home while you're not there how would you ever know ? Heck Im proud of my home it's fantastic and if anyone wants to look theyre welcome too.

They can even use my bed providing they clean the sheets and don't mind me joining in if I interupt em

I would like to tellyou about my experiance.
I just recently bought 512sq m.
I proceeded to put a 4 story store on the land.
Yes, some might call it ugly, I happen to like the textures I chose.
I use it to show off my creations and try to make some lindens.
I am not part of some bigger ad farm conspiracy. I don't even know what an ad farm is. The defination varies from person to person. I don't even take into consideration what the land is and isn't worth.
So, my neighbor rezzes a tree into the side of my building and won't move it unless I pay him $5000L. Oh and he put an ad farm fountain beside the tree. You know,"be part of the solution". The funny thing is, is he bought his land the same time I did and and hasn't done anything with it but harrass me, but his land is for sale. So, basically he is harrassing me trying to get me to buy his land or move and claiming I am trying to manipulate the land values.
Now personally, if this were real life I'd get the chainsaw out.
If this were real life you would not have the right to tell anybody what they can and can't do on Unzoned land.
I own land In West Virgina. I am a transplant from Pa, and find the lack of zoning refreshing. Yeah so Bubba has a couple too many junked cars out back, but WTF?
It's his land. Now If it is piles of garbage or open sewer, that's a job for the health department. In other words don't go off half cocked. Think this through. I pay membership too and should have the same rights as everyone else.
I think a few things should be done.
1. Create Commercial zones. That way everybody there can build as big and as ugly as they want. (I personally don't care what mine looks like on the outside, my store is inside.)
2. Come down hard on these people who harrass others. That guy with his tree is unacceptable. He would be gettin a good wuppin if it were real life. I wasn't doing anything to him.
3. If you want unobstructed view you have to pay for it. Jeez, buy some beach front property. Come on, do they give you a choice of unobstructed views in RL? For the same price? No, you deal with it or move to West Virginia.
4. Come up with a solution that doesn't just appease the squeaky wheels. Try to solve the problem, not turn off the silent majority.
And yes harrassment is harrassment regardless of what right he thinks he has to do it. I have been nice. I could rez a super prim right accross his land from mine. Or would that be wrong then? Think about it.

Or they could use the access controls. If people want to use access controls on their parcels they should be able to.

You can fly above and still travel through so I really don't see the problem.

I espcially like the concept of Zoning. This would help a lot of issues, for example, me and my partner owned a 1/2 of a mainland sim was on the water front, we kept our area pristeen and natural and really pleasing to the eye, but then a wonderfull lady bought another 1/4 of the sim, plonked down some cubic ugly buildings and turned it into a sex land. Ultimately we where driven to purchasing an Island where we could trust the content would be within certain boundaries.
I write this not because I disapprove of any purpose anyone wants to use their virtual land for, however I think Zoning would group like minded residents a little more, make it easier for others to find services and clubs etc, and make for real communities.
The truth is we would return to mainland ownership (its cheaper!) If we could just be sure that out little corner would not end up being overwhelmed by others.
Suggestion: I dont know if it is possible, but could sim resources be divided mroe clearly, for examply, if you own a small peice of land then you can only host a small number of people in that section of land, this meaning, if I owned a large portion of a sim (as I have seen many times) then someone moved in bought a small section and started hogging the sim reosurces with traffic/campers etc, it would not adversely effect me as much as the devision would be fairer?
just a thought.
Also, please be carefull with unilateral decisions to take actions, the devistating results to peoples works etc for example of deleting all super prims, would absolutly destroy some businesses and landmarks. Another example was where one person somehow stole a script, then dispersed it to unsuspecting customers who built all kinds of products relying on that posing script. Then Linden labs discovered it was stolen, and deleted it out from everywhere, breaking the innocent victims builds, damaging their businesses as customers come back complaining their products dont work and leaving them unable to find replacement scripts.
All I ask is that the wider consequences of actions be considered.

quite right. If you want privacy, I've got a number of isolated low prim sims you can rent and control access to. There is absolutely NO chance of privacy on any mainland sims, period. On the mainland, anybody can tp into an ajoining parcel and cam into your property, they can offset-sit themselves into your parcel (i.e. sit on a prim scripted with a sit position many meters from the prim, i.e. in your space), take pictures, chatlog, voicelog, you name it.

I predict the following results of the proposed zoning:

a) by zoning land uses, they reduce the supply of each particular use, which will drive up land prices across the board, just as in real life.
b) this will allow LL to make more money on mainland without crashing land values, which will thus allow LL to hire a LOT more liasons, concierge, and g-team thugs to provide police-state level service.
c) users who value freedom and property rights will flee SL (i.e. all the creative imaginative people who are the necessary yeast in any successful culture) for the independent estates, and independent grids.

BTW for those of you fleeing mainland's impending fascism: http://www.bntholdings.com is where you can find our land listings on our 49 private sims. We respect our residents property rights within our rather loose common sense covenant, and most of our sims are mixed-use.

Some people are fine with people using their stuff. Some aren't. That's life, first and second. There are items I buy that are intended to be community property, e.g., a surfboard system that is temp-rezzing. Not my home, not my Sonsaku Tree, not the dance balls on my porch. Like it? Cool, go to the shop and try it out or buy one yourself. Granted, I don't use banlines but I have a security orb, just the same - get your own.

You've obviously not read anything said by LL on the subject. Zoning won't change ANYTHING on the EXISTING 5000 mainland sims right now. All those "results" are moot as a result. Your magic 8-ball says "Perhaps ask me the right questions".



Said like a true opportunist.

No, thanks.

Though it is not quite how I worded it, I am afraid that is pretty much what I am saying. I don't get all the privacy stuff. This is not RL. You can not tresspass, there is no property to trespass on. People wandering onto your "property" can not steal and they can not hurt things. If you have your permissions set to no rez and auto return, they can not litter either. So what is the big deal. It's not real!!! It's just data on a computer someplace. When you go to your parcel, you receive data that creates a picture on your computer, not a window into a place that actually exists. And depending on your computer and settings, you may see something very different than I do. People don't come onto your property and mess with your stuff, they download data that creates a picture on their computer. They are not touching your toys, the toys don't exist. What part of this is so hard to grasp and get over??

This whole privacy thing is just silly. Locking doors when you can TP through the wall. LOL I have heard there is a viewer around that strips out the clothing layer on avatars, basically rendering everyone nude. LOL Don't know if it really exists, but it just goes to show in concept that it is just data, and not a real place.

I am not advocating your ability to limit access to your parcel when you are present. I can see many reasons for wanting to do this, but by giving a few seconds warning and then ejecting the offending avatar if they remain the way some of the orbs do, having the feature turn itself off after a set timer, and eliminating the ability to stop objects from passing through a parcel, it eliminates the need for the whole laggy ban line feature. Think of it, no more crashing in vehicles against fences you can not see, no more ban line textures mixing into your windows or walls. It would make the whole mainland experience so much more pleasent for all, at no real cost to those that desire "privacy" when they want it.

Anyway, all probably just pipe dreams. Most likey will just get a little new language in the TOS, the multitude of new continents will be zoned, and the rest will go on as before. But we can hope.

DRD

To you it seems silly, to others it doesn't. There's compromise to be made. Turning visibility of banlines on or off. If you're travelling you want them on, if you're on a parcel for any length of time and the neighbours have them on, then you turn them off. Win win situation. Those who want to see banlines can see them and those who want to use access controls can use them.

yes, more and more union wil be made, like the N.A.U, the e.u.
you and me wil not see this,
but the bilderbergs and that other secret group (with herny kissinger) works on that.
travel distance are way shorter then the ghengis Khan era.
people move very fast.
some people flew from the bad weather.
some people flew for fear of their own country.
ect, ect.

i'm from holland, we have polaks, russians, turks and people from 170+ countries in our country.
now i'm in spain, i see chinese, russians, lituanians, bulgarian, romanian, armanian, africans, ect, ect here in my town.
there are over 1 million romanians in italy.
there is a town in germany with over 100.000 turks.
usa has 30+ million afro americans, south americans, hispanos, ect, ect, ect.

people have relations, mate and have kids.

so in short it will take lots of generations, but the world will melt into 1 global nation.
it's just a matter of time.

and a global highway is being planned.
they are investigating how to build a bridge between russia and alaska.
there wil be a bridge build of the street of gibraltar.
both designs are already made and scale models have also been build.
to see what pillar design would withstand massive icebergs.

but back to topic.


just be more tollerant,
think twice before running around like a chicken with it head chopped off.

advertising guideline are needed, like they are in RL.
we also pay rent, so it's pretty simulair to rl.

someone wanted to mark region with spoken language.
this is discrimination.


p.s. if u read the whole topic, u would have seen i made a repost with corrected 'quotes' for better understanding.

Let them look from two sims away, hope they enjoy the boring show. Out of sight, out of mind, so to speak. I just don't like uninvited guests in my house when I log in. Or people who invite themselves to sit next to me on my couch while I'm trying to study a script.



Yep, wondered for about 10 seconds. My home sim is generally pretty quiet so when someone hits a ban line the server barely notices it.



Yep, hit CTRL+SHIFT+H and find somewhere else to shop.



My land settings are quite well set, thank you. Prim litter has never been a problem for me. Just uninvited home invaders. However, my house is unrestricted and, like you, I have no problem with people looking around and I don't even lock my doors anymore hardly.

But, if I log in and find someone making themselves right at home I'll give them a chance to be polite and maybe gain a friend or they can (and most likely will) be stupid and end up on my ban list.



On this one I guess we can just agree to disagree. I find them using my bed and I hit the land eject and hope they land, naked, in a PG sim. (Yes, I know, they just get bounced to a neighboring parcel. But I can dream can't I? )

Mute Resident should include a "hide objects" option.

Then anyone could ignore whatever they want, for any reason not subjective to someone else's broad interpretation of things.

No need to waste manpower on AR's either.

Kill two birds with one stone.

I think the whole privacy thing comes down to individuals. Some people Identify much more strongly to thier Avatar than others. If that identification is coupled with someone who tends to be intensly private or not good at sharing. Then Oui, they do feel a strong need for privacy weather they are home or not. It does not make them bad people, or mentally ill (in most cases). Just different from your own view on things.

It is true you can cam in but for many camming in is very different than coming home to someone on your sofa.

Buying a private island is simply not in the cards for many people. SO that really is not a good answer. I dont think that not being able to afford private luxury (purchased or rented island) should be the bar to prevent someone from feeling comfy in thier own home. Oui I admit privacy is an illusion. But it is an illusion many people need.

this I could support whole heartedly. Brilliant