Feedback on the Mainland

tripple tier fees for ad farms
: )

I agree that restriction will not solve the problem, but surely there is a difference here. The 512 costs 32 times as much in tier for the same harrassment range. And of course some of the more notorious 16s have 28 prims, maintained by temp-rez.

I've removed your name from the QUOTE tag. You, or whoever you were responding to, may not have asked that question but it's been asked. Sorry for the confusion. :\

actually it is very common to advertise locally before advertising nationally.



Doh yes so everyone keeps saying my bad.



yes you misrepresent the idea some what but I dont like it either, I am suprised that you like it though since tps dont happen in real life dont you think they are bullshit?
umm whose goal is it to have no borders at all? I o not know of one world leader since ghengis Khan who seem like to have stated this as his goal. didn't you say if it is not rl it is BS. I do not see it as nessecarry because people will naturally organise themselves into one language comunities. plenty of nihon, Francophone, comunities out there. besides what was proposed was not borders but a that different regions have different linga franca
Thyis does not happen in RL so BS
everyone discriminates fools do it unfairly
This does not happen in RL so it is BS.

since it is against TOS to offer land for sale with harrassing ads people put the land up and wait to be approached.rather than leave it for sale


Im not sure what you mean by liberal it seem neither the classic "people should have as many liberties as possible" model of the UK. nor the modern american the state has a duty to interfere" model

One perhaps very simple way to demonstrate that this blog post is more than just words, or, as some seem to suspect, a new way for the Lab to disenfranchise existing mainland land holders, would be to update the map images on the server that provides map views on the web whenever someone clicks a SLURL in a blog or anywhere on the web for that matter.

There are entire continents that have now been in "existence" for well over a year and yet appear on the SLURL page as blue ocean or "missing images" to this day. For screen caps of this please look at JIRA issue #WEB-420, titled "Slurl.com - Online Map not revealing all of the grid." (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-420). There are also several related issues open that you'll find linked there.

This issue has been open since mid-December of 2007 (but has been a problem since at least this time last year). Of course the issue remains unassigned as do most issues that affect commerce and web interaction with the grid. Please take what has to be a fairly minor step to actually update these pics at least once, so that those coming across the grid map can actually see something in those mainland regions that have existed for -- in many cases -- over a year.

Not doing so only further fuels the general suspicion of the Lab's motives and priorities, as is abundantly clear from the outpouring of frustration that's being heard in replies to this thread.

With such an unprofessional face being shown to the world, is it really surprising that those optimistic enough to think that the Lab would eventually get to such things are slowly (or not so slowly) voting with their virtual feet?

I raise this now because M Linden does have some understanding of marketing, demonstrated most recently by the revolutionary step of actually changing the flash screens now and then that greet residents at login, at least through the 1.20.15 release viewer. Perhaps addressing this one instance of the ugly face Linden Lab presents to the wide wide world via the web will also do something to increase the odds that a casual surfer will deign to check out this crazy world?

So, fly more than 50m above the ground level. Even with draw at 64m you can still see everything below you and your travel will be completely unimpeded.

I, personally, don't use the access restrictions but if my neighbor does then that is his/her right and who am I to question their motives. I can easily fly over them to get to any land I may have on the other side or, better yet, just TP there.

I agree that the appearance of ban lines is awful and needs to be addressed but I don't believe the function needs to be removed.

My main gripe with my mainland property is ad farming. There's no point in having an ad up next to my shop. Nobody will see it but the people that come to my store, so I put up a wall to block it out; but I can't expand.

I say limit land sale prices to a reasonable cap. L$200 should be a max for 16sm. I have some psycho selling 16sm next door for L$1995. Give me a break! The land adjacent to that is L$5000 for 512.

I don’t usually have the time to participate in the community as much as I would like but I find it disturbing that I saw this and had to respond.

Excuse my language but..
WHAT THE {*MODERATOR - this person's profane language has been deleted*} is the point of having a discussion if you’re not going to even entertain the ideas and suggestions put forth.
that being said...
Roads :
its mainland damn it. IT should have roads. Roads should be placed at sim creation and not moved or added to if residents want roads on their parcels they will make them. Roads should take up even 512 parcels so reaming land is evenly divisible.
Ban lines:
Make them visible for short periods when you collide. Furthermore ban lines should not be allowed to block access to other resident’s parcels.
Advertising:
Should be part of a legitimate structure or above 300M so as to not ruin the “scenery”. There’s a perfectly good search and add system setup there’s no reason to make SL like RL by blasting residents with adds. “Sky Writing adds” (adds that appear on the map image) should only be allowed in fully owned sims.
Zoning:
Zoning is going to need cross zone variance for certain communities ie. Small town storefront with residential on second floor. But overall I like the idea.
Staging :
Info hubs should be full sim “jump points” to high traffic areas such as clubs, shopping and role play areas which may be full. The jump point should contain information on how many residents are currently at the destination. To support the land usage jump points will be rentable by the high traffic sims as part of the search listings (the owners of which should have plenty of revenue with which to purchase add space). This infrastructure will support the proposed zoning and can provide logical access to content. For example main hub with jumps to shopping hubs, role play hubs, and club hubs . Sub hubs with jumps to end destinations. This will also provide new residents and casual users a way to find content and build landmark libraries to their favorite places without having to search and visit dozens of places.
Speed and displacement:
There didn’t seem to be an issue when linden labs want something gone. the speed with which gambling establishments were removed without regards to resident displacement clearly demonstrates the ability to enact restrictions unilaterally and swiftly. I don’t think the priorities are high on these discussion or it would be an implementation notice. Something like we did this live with it.
Parcel editing system
Legitimate or not small parcels are disruptive. The problem from maxing a tier comes from buying odd sized plots. Tier fees go up in increments divisible by 512 there’s no reason the parcel editing can’t be altered to a simple grid add system with 512 blocks. This will result in no parcel being an odd size since the parcel will have to be 1024 or larger to split. While this will stifle certain creative parcel divisions it will eliminate certain problems like someone building a parcel around someone else’s parcel and putting up ban lines to keep people from walking in to the parcel(I’ve seen it done and its clearly griefing even if there isn’t a “rule” against it ). There’s no tier fee savings change for parcels smaller than 512 so it’s not like residents are saving by having these small plots. There’s no reason not to have 512 even if you’re not “using it”. Perhaps a good start is to simply disable the selling of parcels smaller than 512 thus plots will have to be merged to sell. Eventually all plots will merge back into large enough plots to be evenly split. If this idea sounds nuts try it on a few new Sims I bet it works just fine.

As someone who enjoys exploring SL with vehicles (and has a business making them)

I'm glad your going to be looking at the terrain and coastlines... a lot of it is a mess, especially on some more recent continents. I would like to see all continents surrounded by navigable water. More useable rivers like the old continent as well in future? To be able to sail or fly between continents would be amazing...

At the moment there are so many impediments to vehicle use (or even exploring on foot) that only the most determined even bother trying. Exploring an almost endless SL, seeing new things and meeting new people is potentially a huge selling point, but when you keep having your vehicle snatched away by ban lines, getting attacked by security orbs or finding your route blocked by bad or unfinished terrain design it is all wasted.

with your sugestion those bad landords can work for linden labs.

No, I think you've solved ALL of our problems here with these very useful and effective suggestions.

actually cutting land into 1 metre square area to sell on has been used a number of times to effectively remove it from the land market.

I have an RL friend who logged into her SL home and found two strange avatars doing stuff to each other in her bedroom. It really creeped her out to know that people not only did that but were also doing it in what she had thought was her private space that until then she was very happy with and happy to pay for.

She couldnt handle being in that same space again. So she dumped the place and bought another parcel and started over. And her banlines are never coming down ever at anytime ever again. Not that she wants to annoy her neighbours, but well, I think she has a perfectly good reason to have them up.

I support the concept of private spaces in any world, real or online. The violation of any personal space, physical or virtual, be that a personal page on a 2D site or a 3D room in SL is no different from an RL bedroom or a college locker or a diary even. Knowing that someone else you know, let alone those you don't know, can open it up anytime they want and do whatever they want in your personal space is very real and affects most people quite badly.

The banlines just don't need to be visual redtape is all.

Ban lines are silly and annoying; anyone with a decent computer can pan across entire sims with their camera. There is only one way to get true privacy in SL. Buy an island and do not make it visible by the public. Or just use IM for private "conversations". When I see ppl bumping pixels in my residence; I usually pull up a chair; point, laugh, and invite friends to watch the show. lol

*Trin

There are a few issues here, one is banlines, which I have said should be able to be turned off, they can be used as a griefing tool.

Next there's simply the psychological issue that some people don't want others on their plots and I support that choice. If banlines are can be turned off then they can't be used to grief so that's a win win.

Then there's right of way, this issue needs to be addressed but it should have been addressed a long time ago, with new mainland it's an issue that can be addressed. On existing mainland it needs to be discussed to find a fair solution that protects people's perceived privacy, whether or not that perception is misguided isn't really the point. If you fly at a certain height you avoid banlines and all avatars can fly. If mainland was designed to be open to all then there would only be a ban tab.

ooo! caves !!! Id like to be able to dig a cave in the side of cliff. That'd be great =) At sea level you could make a really neat underwater cave. And ocean tides !!! that'd be kool as well.

Even better... ban lines are only active when you are on that plot of land - or when you are actually logged in.

If you don't know what's going on when you aren't there, you can't get worried about it.

Too much paranoia. There are ways round *every* way to keep people out of/away from your land, so it's really not worth getting your panties in a knot over.

Why live on Mainland.. if the Private Estates are great?
I mean.. it takes a lot of time and work to change main land, it is already messed up..
Leave the griefers and advertisers on thne mainland and reserve the privat land for the more serious people, for shops, offices, residental areas...

I mean, I think mainland cant be saved anymore, its already too messed up.
Although if LL wants to try it and invest time and money in it, its fine
Hopefully they dont forget to work on the other things too .

I am renting from privat landowners, and so far it always worked fine and its cheaper and better.

While I would truly have empathy and understanding if this happened in a RL situation, I simply can not equate this kind of emotional responce to pixels on a computer screen. SL is not a real world, and while there are real people behind the avatars, they are not real, and what they do is not real. Your sheets can not become soiled in SL. Frankly, I think someone who responds in this fashion might want to take a serious look at if they even belong in SL. I am not trying to be mean here, I just think that whole responce is unhealthy to the extreme.

A more realistic responce would be to ask them to leave, or just evict them.

Griefing and the odd event such as above is a pain, granted. But, does this type of event warrant the closing off of much of the mainland to easy travel along roads and waterways, flying and exploring, and very negatively affecting the view and enjoyment of the thousands of residents who live on and explore the mainland???

I would have to think it does not.

DRD

Me personally I would have froze them and put a box on their heads and taken their photo. But, thats oldskool think. Sooo last century =) It belongs to the time when the internet was seen as free space where people could do whatever they liked when they liked to whomever they wanted.

Its a new century now though. RL values are being applied now in this century, not only in SL but all online spaces open to the paying public. They're simply part of our RL now. The New Pragmatism =) Which is what this thread is about. Its only how its to be implemented that we're all chatting about here.

And camming ??? LL are going to have to fix that too, at least into spaces clearly marked as private. New Pragmatism again ya =)

Call it what you will but, to a lot of people, the perception of privacy, whether real or not, is hugely important and should not be brushed off so lightly.

I may not use access restrictions now but I have in the past and I also have security systems waiting in my inventory. I have logged in to fine people "using" my bedroom and even had them go so far as harass me for interrupting them.

Yeah, I can and did ban them but, the impact on me was surprisingly strong and I did feel my "home" had been violated. So, for quite a while after I had access restrictions up and I didn't give a damn what others felt about it.

So I am not going to condemn others for having similar reactions and I vote a resounding NO to the idea of removing them or limiting their use.

Yes, clean up the gawd awful appearance of the things but leave the function alone.

Well, Jack, I am glad to see SL interested in their current residents...finally after 3 years...rather then putting most of their resources into getting more and more residents that don't stay because of issues.

Access controls can be improved. e.g., no loitering or avatar auto-eject, versus something that tosses people out of their vehicles at the perimeter. But there absolutely should be access controls that permit complete isolation if people want it. You are not entitled to use other people's stuff. That others allow people to explore and use their items is a magnanimous gesture but by no means is it an entitlement.

If you cannot be content with just camming around to explore access-restricted parcels and/or want to use the landowner's objects, pony up the lindens and buy your own, or go somewhere else that will allow you to both look and touch.

Hmm yes, it sucks when you find out people have been rezzings things on yur land, or used your things.. I completely agree with the above reactions.
I mean its like RL.. you wouldnt sneak into a house with your boy/girlfriend and use the bedroom if you dont know the owner??

Thats against the law, and the users should be punsihed, not only by banning them from the land, but also by banning their accounts.

I also use a security system, because it is NEEDED.
Again, when you have a privat sim.. or you rent from a privat simowner, you dont have these issues. At least not like this..

Why is it almost every single time this viewpoint is bought up, it's in relation to sex beds/toys/other adult content?

Perhaps that's an issue that needs addressing too, as part of the age verification stuff?

If you aren't age verified, you cannot own, or use, adult content, regardless of the classification of the land it is on.