Feedback on the Mainland

Access lines don't have anything to do with preventing people from "using your stuff". I can still cam inside your house, click on your goodies, and (unless it has changed recently) "sit" on your "furniture".

That's what security orbs are for.

Some good ideas regarding the credit card info, a policy like that would at least hamper banned individuals from re joining instantly under a fresh account.
My only worry is would it deter completely new members from joining initially?
Thats one for LL

The roads idea I am less keen on though as this would mean compulsory purchase of land required to make these new roads in existing Sims something I would be against as many long term users payed far more for their land than it is now worth.
Which could in turn make existing users feel cheated by LL.

Before massive changes are undertaken on the existing mainland, it is important to approach the easily fixed TOS to ensure cheats be it extortioners, copyright thieves etc. can be dealt with quickly and severely by LL.

LL have to act in cases where people abuse the rights of other users, currently they don't that is the real reason why the mainland is a crap hole in many areas.

Jack please don't go in half cocked and piss everyone off, weedle out the few causing the damage and put a stop to it.
Clearing up the existing mainland land needs hands on work not just ideas of zoning and new rules that will never be followed up on.

So restrict access to a group, and put your main and your alt in the same group. Either you or your alt will serve to keep the ban lines up when you're on the property.

Yes you can do that, for the 10 seconds before you are ejected. Ban lines eject non group members.

To wit, there has been no intention voiced on the part of the Lindens thus far indicating that such would ever come to pass.

Not saying it couldn't or won't, but right now, it's a strawman.

How about flying over it? Because they're in a glider and they're trying to land on the parcel next to yours? They hit your ban lines (which they can't see until it's too late to do anything about it) and it's like hitting a brick wall.

Certain ads are--without any doubt whatsoever--bad news. Put some stuff on a rotating banner and make that banner 40+ m high. Throw three of them up within 30m of each other.
Put some semi-graphically explicit pictures on a cube, have it well lit and rotating, and float it 20m + off the ground. Better yet have more than one.

Bottom line: there are some standards that CAN be agreed upon. As in RL, people can get together to hammer out those standards. Perhaps it's time for that in SL . . . or perhaps it's time for LL to decide on more rigid standards.


Or ban 16m^2 parcels . . . or anything smaller than 512 m^2. I like the visually mute idea a lot. <g>


So you're advocating Discrimination by Sim. Interesting.

In the RL, all zoning does not result in discrimination. In the RL, zoning by commercial/residential does work. Why couldn't it work in SL?

Zoning by theme. Hmmm. A lot like having foreign countries. Yes? Is that really bad?

As far as people populated, majority rules-type committees are concerned. Why not? Communication between people makes people better neighbors and often results in better solutions.

Bullying and discrimination are not just potentially the province of people in committees, they're also the bread and butter of the Totalitarian ruler. Sim owners provide one option. Let the mainland go more democratic. That way people can pick their poison.

I hate bullies. I was bullied in school, when I was in high school, and I now actively stand against them as an adult; but theorizing that every situation you cite above will lead to such is not a given. It isn't in RL; why should SL be any different?


Funds in escrow, I like this.


The question is how much freedom should the mainland have?

--- Rema

Put a script in the pose ball to add people who use it when you're not around to the parcel's "banned avatars" list. NOBODY is suggesting THAT kind of ban line be removed.

Put a script in the pose ball to add people who use it when you're not around to the parcel's "banned avatars" list. NOBODY is suggesting THAT kind of ban line be removed.
Seems reasonable. When you enter the group-only area you get 30 seconds (or whatever) to leave it, then the ban lines become active.
Definitely. THOSE kinds of banlines shoudln't change.
They *do*. Why they aren't used for this purpose, I don't know.
Havok4 keeps pushing me down to the level of the ban lines when I do that.

Havok4 keeps pushing me down to the level of the ban lines when I do that.

As someone likely already pointed out, LL and SL is not the USA. Freedom of speech and expression is not guaranteed here. The First Amendment ONLY applies to the GOVERNMENT restricting such "Congress shall make no law...".

That said, Freedom comes with responsibility to pursue said freedoms responsibly, and your freedoms end where mine (and everyone else's) begin. Freedom, in this context, is NOT Anarchy.



If I was being a jerk and harassing my neighbor, I better get to like it, because it should and will happen.



Depends on the circumstance. If someone doesn't want me seeing inside their house for privacy reasons, then I think it is quite fair of them to tell me that I cannot do so.



Most people here, including myself, are not complaining about "ads", we're complaining about "spam". BIG difference, there, Jubs. I'm perfectly happy with advertising, business signage, etc. I am NOT happy with adtowers on 16sqm plots outside my window harassing me.

If you want a real, hard definition of what I consider unacceptable related to "advertising", then read http://etakeh-oh.net/adless/?page_id=5, bottom proposal.



On MY land, I DO have the right to decide what others can or cannot see, from MY land!

Well, actually, I should call it a privilege.. "right" sounds like an entitlement, and there is no such thing in SL.



Discrimination is nothing new. We ALREADY HAVE discrimination; it's called the Terms of Service and Community Standards. Violate them, and LL will DEFINITELY saunter by and "discriminate" against you.



Well, ya know, if I could buy 1/4 of a private island from LL, or 1/2, or even a full one, for the cost of mainland, I would (no, OpenSpaces won't work for me, nor would rentals; let's not go there). Failing that, I will fall back onto the effort to get LL to enforce their ToS and to underwrite the exercise of Responsible Freedom on the mainland.



Yes, Responsible Freedom, NOT Anarchic Freedom.

Given the amount of paperwork *any* kind of subdivision entails, they must have had some really amazing motivation to do that.
There are no places marked private in SL.

There are no places marked private in SL.

How many ad farmers are there in Secondlife? 100? So few residents that have clearly done so much damage to Secondlife. Why not just delete the accounts of ad farmers and let the Governor Linden land reclamation process work it's magic? Put up an ad farm? Next day try logging in and find the account no longer exists. Would not take long for people to figure out that sticking the hand in that fire burns. No more problem.

Until LL nerfed physics with Havok4 I was selling a gimmicked poseball that would orbit people who used it if the owner wasn't present. It still does its best to make things tough for the abuser, if you IM me I'll be happy to send you one in-world.

Perhaps someone could explain to me why a discussion on the future of the mainland incudes getting rid of banlines?

Banlines have just as much effect on islands if allowed as mainland areas.

Yes banlines are used as a griefing tool by Adfarmers but thats not a reason to ban ban lines they serve a purpose security up to 100m supposedly cannot really comment as I don't use them.

Linden Labs need to take action against the people who deliberately use any means at their disposal to harass the neighbors, whether this is banlines, big advert prim blocks etc.

I like the way you think, Ann. You must have some Dragon blood in you.

I wouldn't object to that, though I think they should be given a couple weeks notice.

I don't think anyone is advocating that level of freedom here. The problem is that right now access controls cause so many problems that you're griefing your neighbors by setting them up... even if you don't intend to.

If she had no interest in it then they had to have rezzed their own poseballs. Setting her land no-build would have solved that one.

If he had no interest in it then they had to have rezzed their own poseballs. Setting her land no-build would have solved that one.

*roars with laughter*

If only...... ... .. .

I've been commissioned by more than one group as their "complaints department" and "department of special needs handling".

Just for the sake of argument, let me describe my newbee experience. I buy land. The build on the parcel next to mine looks just fine. A week later it morphs into a multicolored rainbow cylinder with a floor on the lower third. Turns out I suddenly have a sex-related facility of some sort next to my property, which is drawing some traffic.

Not a real problem since I'd expect this in a mature area.

However, I've been working on creating a non-sexual related business here and that facility is a visual turnoff, especially in comparison to the way I want to theme my business. So I spend some prims and erect a wall that screens the rainbow cylinder out. (I was hoping he or she would just close off the cylinder's end; but after two weeks, that didn't happen) So my wall is a 20m high textured stone wall. Now my neighbor can pursue his business, and I can pursue mine.

Turns out, he doesn't like my wall texturing, so he closes off the end of his cylinder with something more graphically conducive to his activities.

Fine. No problem for me, and he's now happy.

Now, you--or somebody else--comes along and decides my wall and his cylinder wall (it's 20m high also) are unsightly. You raise a fuss. Now three of us are upset.

Banning such walls is a solution? Maybe plywood walls should only be banned. Should there be community standards for walls?

--- Rema

My point exactly an but shown in a much more concise manner Linden Labs needs to act on the individual perpetrators not go changing everything many of us hold dear.
If you need a helping boot Jack mine are size 12's

Here's a slightly different approach: require that an advertiser hold a least 256m2 per ad displayed in that sim. Want to have a nice billboard with an ad? Okay--that's a 256m2 plot. Does your billboard have ads on both sides? Okay--512m2.

This does not affect any legitimate uses of small parcels, nor does it cause problems for businesses with their own signs. Further, limit the height of billboards. I would suggest that ten meters be the maximum.

There have been a few comments here about seeing into each other's private homes. I really wish Linden would do something about this. I don't want people to be able to take a scenic tour of my SL house using camera control - just as I don't think I have the right to do that to others. If I want someone to see my house I invite them in. Isn't there anything that can be done to stop this intrusion?