Feedback on the Mainland

My land is on the Mainland and has many advantages over a private estate for starters it costs me 195L$ per month instead of the 295+ estate owner markup L$ it would cost me to rent, estate owner cannot compete with that never will be able to.

Estate land rented from a virtual landlord should be nice should have none of the problems that the mainland do, for the simple reason that the estate owner cares about their investment and makes damn sure they will stomp on anyone that upsets any of the other residents, this is because they are running a business and cannot afford to have half empty sims.

But to say mainland cannot be cleaned up is ludicrous, Linden Labs own the Mainland it is theirs, to do with as they choose, for along time Linden Labs has just sat back and allowed users to do whatever they want, allowing a sense of freedom as some other posts have pointed out.

This sense of freedom is great, something I hold very dear, my area of the mainland is just the way I want it, tomorrow everything could change though, I may just clean sweep the whole place and for some inane reason start building a giant pink castle, I doubt it very much but the option is there!

This is the sort of freedom Mainland offers and if my neighbor chose to do just that, then it is his choice, thats the freedom the mainland offers currently.
(I agree this is probably not the best example but what can you do it just popped into my head, not sure what that says about me though) .

The problem with the mainland is people, not the freedom they are given but the way in which the minority choose to use it, this is where a Linden Labs Estate management team is required, not to go interfering with the guy who built a pink castle, but to go after the few greifers who deliberately use this freedom to extort and harass the rest of us.

The fact is we all need Linden Labs to say we have banned harassment, extortion and then when they receive a complaint look into it carefully decide if there is a case using common sense and when justifiable cause is found boot out the repeat perpetrators, the person who makes the complaint should be given a progress report similar to the way the tickets are handled, explaining what action has been taken.

I like the freedom of the mainland and long may it continue, however I also see the requirement for zoned land but feel the existing mainland should be cleared of the riff raff by the intervention of sensible linden lab estate management, not zoned that way we all keep a degree of choice.

Whether or not Linden Labs are organized enough as a company to actually manage it properly is another matter, but I live in hope.

2 points here,

1/, LL would have to monitor eneryones inventory continuously if they were not " age verified"
2/. we are ALL " age verified", we verified that we were over 18 when we signed the TOS.

I by the way, am also officially age verified for the second time, once when I joined and once a few months back .

I said objects in general, and even then it should be plain as day why usually people refer to such toys. That's because those are the ones that are abused the most.

Age Verification is a bridge too far and is not worth discussing in this particular forum, IMO, until it is mandatory.

If you are not an adult you have no business being on the adult grid in the first place. So what's your point?

To DR =)

What we need to do is add stuff as best we can and not necessarily take it away when there are alternatives. Purely on the matter of private spaces in SL. There is a Jira entry that I think will address this very well.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2390

Its an addition for everyone to what we have already, not a subtraction from some, which I think is where we should always be heading. Adding stuff. Adding privacy zones is a good thing.

And while SL is seen by many as only a bunch of pixels and not to be taken seriously then the masses who aren't in SL would disagree. Because the masses, hundreds of millions of them with Bebo, MySpace and Facebook pages do take those spaces seriously, because those spaces are an extension of their RL. Its not seen as game on those social networks and neither is SL, or it shouldnt be if all those millions are to join us. And why would they, those masses who aren't in SL, even bother too, or take this place seriously if we who are already here don't.

We're all here to have fun ya, but we also should be looking forward to how we can best manage whats in front of us. LL have to their credit recognised this by a reorganisation at the top and by the very presence of this thread. So its all going to work out I think =)

I have to admit I am VERY concerned about this push for zoning. My family and I own half a sim of businesses. Over the last 4 years we have been bounced around from one location to another including owning a private island at one point. We returned to the mainland well over a year ago to the location we currently have. I will be honest here IF any kind of zoning forces us to sell our half a sim and move, we are going to be taking a very hard look at how much of an investment we want to have going forward. Enough is enough already.

The reason is irrelevant, although there's an example in this thread of the parcel owner finding avatars doing the naughty in her home when she herself had no interest in such activities, she didn't like the intruders and she didn't like what they were doing.

There would be a much stronger argument for the right to roam freely if everyone paid for the upkeep of the servers, as it is parcel owners pay for that upkeep and I know there is a cause and effect issue of people who are non premium contributing greatly to both the economy and the upkeep but it boils down to people paying to own a parcel, they should have the right to say no to intruders.

Well, I don't exactly like seeing my room in disarray (toy chest open, closet doors in odd positions, etc.) when I log in either. Not sexual stuff, but still mine.

I am cautiously optimistic that this will be handled delicately. I would not expect LL to zone a sim with an existing business, especially a large business, as a residential zone. We don't even know what "zoning" looks like in Jack's head. Does that mean it will also separate adult activities from non-adult activities? What are the limitations of "mixed use" if any? These terms need clarification before we should be too afraid.

It has been pointed out numerous times that Jack has stated that IF Zoning i8s brought in, it will effect new mainland areas, maybe in time the rest of the mainland may have some type of zoning, but it will not be for a very long time

Freedom of expression
Freedom of speech
Enshrined in law in the USA I believe - or is it

Not one of you would like a neighbour abitrarily deciding your build is ugly and getting you banned.
Not one of you would like to be told what you can or cannot see.
May of you complaining about "ads" also have signage on your builds - who realistically is going to decide what is and isn't "ads".

Extortion is a problem - set a maximum price per meter for smaller parcels. And limit how many times u can divide land per month.Thereby removing the profitability
Anything else - If you do not want to see it - then have the ability to visually mute it.
No-one should have the right to decide what others can or cannot see - it should be a personal choice only.

Zoning by language = will result in discrimination
Zoning by theme = will result in discrimination
Zoning commercial/residential = unworkable. If I accidentally set something for sale in my house are you really gonna ban me?
Residential "majority rules" committees? will result in bullying/discrimination

If you do not want to be surrounded by "ugly" builds and signage - then you have a simple choice - go private sim. Lindens could do more here to prevent landlord rip-offs - perhaps a Linden guarantee system based on deposited funds?

The true beauty of Mainland is Freedom

I've been thinking some more about this and perhaps a partial solution to the Griefer problem is to morph the Free Basic Membership a bit by requiring credit card information.

Two things result from this (if it doesn't violate some law, somehow):

One, it gives you a fairly positive ID on a Griefer, once he or she's been ID'd. You can then ban all subsequent attempts to create new avatars, since you would ban the credit card number instead of the avatar.

Two, if the user agreement (TOS) were changed, LL could institute a system of fines for behavior deemed "contrary to the public interest" in addition to days off the system and other dubiously effective actions short of expulsion. Make the Griefer truly pay for his or her actions.

I've also had a thought re ban lines. I'm a two-month newbee here. What if all my neigbors instituted ban-lines that prevent me from leaving my property by any means other than TP? Seems like the current system really defeats the "please explore SL" suggestion newbees get when they first enter SL.

My suggestion: Perhaps there should be more roads . . . and/or fly over zones that all properties link up with so that you're always guaranteed to be able to explore without bumping into ban lines.

Perhaps there needs to be "green belt" space between properties so that access is never cutoff.

--- Rema

You should join TAG ...

Second Life is a service provided by Linden Lab and governed by the Terms of Service. It is not a nation and the US Constitution does not apply. Freedom of speech is irrelevant.

Rema, you could always fly 51 m or more above ground and then you can move around freely.

Thats how it used to be Remacu. Payment information in the form of a credit card was required for membership. This requirment was removed back in the middle of 2006 when the big publicity campaign and membership push went on. Griefers had a field day. Rosedale said LL would never go back to that, but maybe with some new thinkers at the top, that will get another look.

DRD

Zoning by language = places like amsterdam etc. it already happens
Zoning by theme = harmonious areas.
zoning commercial / residential = Major stores in one place, houses in another, the odd garage sale is not a commercial undertaking.
Residential majority rules committees will mean that land owners will have to actually talk to each other.


nobody is talking about COMPLETE zoning, the talk was about new mainland areas being zoned. Synonymous with America some time back, or Australia, the zoned areas, and private sims will be the city and small town areas, the old central mainland, the wild west, or outback areas, some will like to live in the towns, some in the wilds

A channel of free passage between parcel edges is, incidentally, an automatic consequence of setting banlines back 4m from parcel borders, which I have suggested for other reasons. (Actually, setting them back only 2m would go a long way towards both objectives.)

Hmm. Well, let's see. The road is 12m away, so I should fly up (assuming flying is enabled in the first place) ~50m, bounce off a few times until I find the top of the access line limit, fly over 12m, then fly down 50m. That's 112m to go 12m. Not to mention that people will try going AROUND them first, and in the case I cited, you have to bounce off of 120-200m of access lines until you find the end of them, THEN you have to fly back. The lines are not easy to judge in terms of distance. Sometimes, it looks like you are right on them, when in fact you are either past them, or still 10-15m away.

The point is not that access lines are a huge problem to navigate around, or are particularly ugly, but that some RETARD put them up on his 16-32sqm microparcel (or curtain of them), which is set for sale at L$100-L$1000/sqm, SPECIFICALLY to harass the neighbors into buying him out. IE, it's not the access line so much the problem in that case as the OBVIOUS intent.



Actually, I don't even SEE the damn things until I smack into them most of the time, so I cannot agree that their appearance is ugly, since the vast majority of the time, they are INVISIBLE. In fact, I would argue that they should be MORE visible, at least while traveling, not LESS. As for the function being removed, I've never suggested any such thing.

Well, Jack, I am glad to see SL interested in their current residents...finally after 3 years...rather then putting most of your resources into getting more and more residents that don't stay because of issues you spoke of.

1) Ad Farmers have to go and that means when LL takes and put an ugly road through a sim that the small plots aren't sold off to people for ad farms. A lot of these ad farms are a direct result of LL's own doing.

2) If you put a road thru, ask if the person who owns the sim if they wish the ugly road to go thru their sim. If they don't want the damn road, which I have never really seen anyone use anyway, either a) don't put one in, b) relocate them to a new sim with the same covenants as the one they left, c)reroute the damn thing, or move the sim to another area for them.

If you put one thru my mainland sim that I live in, you will have one unhappy customer. that will be looking for another world to spend her real life dollars in. I purchased with the understanding there would be no road going thru the land, and yet, I see one approaching. The ad farms are already lining the roadway from what I can tell.

3) At least grandfather in existing full mainland sims or those that have limited numbers of plots, keep the covenants the way they are for those sims. Some of us believe in the mainland and specifically purchased sims in the mainland because of these covenants. You would be wise to do things thru attrition on the mainland.

4) When you can guarantee me that the riff raff and their prims can be kept out of my home, when I am there and when I am not, then and only then, will I be more then happy to turn off the ugly ban lines. I don't especially want to be AR'd cause I bounced people with my security orb for trespassing rather then keeping them out with official methods.


The lawlessness creating the need for zoning is an LL created issues just like the ad farms, casinos, bots, inflated traffic numbers due to campers, etc. When people refuse to pay real money to support their SL habits, then you are going to get such things like land speculation, LD trading, escorts, gambling, ad farms, etc. If that is what people want to do, fine let them, but remove them to a commercial continent away from the mainland where they can ply their trade.

Maybe you need to start a new commercial continent and let those on the mainland with commercial services move there...offer a one to one trade for their current mainland property. You solve two problems at once your commercial land instantly starts to become populated and you have vacated land for beautification projections and roadways on the Mainland.

And, while your at it, create a newbie continent restricted to 0 to 90 day old residents where new residents can buy or rent a small property and learn the basics of land ownership and zoning rules before turning them loose into the wilds of Second Life. When they are old enough, refund their money or hold it in reserve for the specific purpose of purchasing newbie land on the mainland. Make these mainland 512 newbie plots just that forever held by LL that cannot be sold for more then what they paid for them nor increase in size beyond 512.

I have worked too long and too hard over the last three years to buy my first sim. And, like many on the mainland, we paid a very large US dollar amount for our sim then saw it become devalued overnight when $1000.00 islands came into being. My sim is my home. I give my friends places to live free of charge while I foot the bill. I have my workshop there to learn how to create things and sell them on a small plot elsewhere that appreciates my business. I don't sprawl across the sim with my prims like some of my neighbors do on me. There are no laggy clubs or malls. You won't find a bunch of different rental plots or ads all over the place. I keep the environment controlled that I live in I keep my sim policed as best I can. Please don't punish those of us that supported SL over the years and helped it to grow with our word-of-mouth advertising and trying to do the right thing.

I think a few said earlier in this forum, some of us spend hundreds of dollars each month in tier and spending money on SL and if you check our records we have been doing that since coming to SL. We have supported YOU all these years so have some consideration for US.

As a matter of interest, Are Jack and Katt still reading this, since Jack said the blog would be closed sometime today, and I have not seen a word from either one for quite some time.

I never use ban lines. I don't care if you do or not, I just want the ability to choose whether I see them or not. It seems like a simple solution that allows everyone (except the ban line griefers) to have their way.

To those who have written emotionally about strangers in the house using their sex furniture, use the owner menu to turn them off or set them to use by owner only. if your item does not have such permissions built in, you should probably buy a better item.

To those upset about prim litter on their parcels, set your build permissions and auto return to appropriate settings.

I like the idea of at the very least my own area of the mainland remaining free of ad farms. It is a relatively new sim and is a joy because of the "cross my fingers" lack of ugly ad towers.

I would further like to see a "footpath" or "highway" through all the sims. This, my first venture at mainland ownership has shown me what is so very different from island land... that is the foottraffic or fly by traffic!

It is wonderful to see people wandering from place to place on the mainland, exploring.

I would further like to see a restriction of security that would not allow people to fly over segments of land OR at the very least a "public access route" to continue to encourage people exploring from sim to sim. Perhaps an "easement" similar to that which Hydro companies have, which would allow people to travel along the edge of the property??

Sorry, but I don't share any of your sentiments. Mainland is not a lost cause until LL declares it a lost cause and gives up. Same with the residents.

The fact that you are happy living under the yoke of a private landlord is great! No, really, it is. We all have to do what we are happy doing, right? I am happy NOT having that worry over said landlord disappearing in the night or going schizo and dumping all of his tenants to turn his sim into a XXX sex playground. Plus, from what I have seen, mainland is cheaper and better.

YMMV, however.

So, I work to improve the mainland experience. Maybe it will happen, maybe it will happen sooner or later, or maybe it won't happen, and I'll leave SL. Maybe my SL business will take off and I will be able to justify the extra expense of my own private island. *shrug* Until that time comes, I'll keep on doing what I am doing that makes me happy, even if it does require a little angst and woe to make changes happen to make it better.

Same as you.

I agree that an "ugly" highway type road would be horrid, but a "forested walkway" or similar path would be good. Even if it is a three meter wide plot that had an occasional tree or bush, that would be kept open for people to wander along.