Feedback on the Mainland

I have already suggested setting banlines back 4, from the borders, to remove them from most extortion plots, which would help to reduce neighbour annoyance too. While I would like more people to visit my land, since that is what it is for, it cannot be denied that there is an abstract, if irrational, sense of privacy that is very important to many people, who will defend banlines to the hilt. One of the problems with banlines is their asymmetry - the fact that the neighbours must suffer them, while the users can remain oblivious, creates a lack of appreciation of their effect and thus a bias that encourages their use. If the banlines were made visible to the banners, perhaps in blue, so that they had to experience exactly the same thing that they impose on their neighbours, we might see a substantial reduction in use.

PS DR Dahlgren....please feel free to regard this as a tweak

So how does group ownership not answer that issue? Create your own group of you and your alts and put the land in the group's name and close membership. You only need two.

If nothing else, maybe doubling the number of groups will cause LL to come up with a viable solution...

Erm.. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this thread wasn't about coming up with a solution. LL has been inundated with them for well over a year now, and the vast majority of suggestions made here towards solutions have already been well-examined and documented for some time now (see all of Argent's excellent posts and referrals to JIRA feature / bug requests). That said, I am not suggesting people stop submitting suggestions, but, taking the action to formulate an overall solution at this point is moot.

Further, LL has already decided on a solution (apparently) months ago, and is in the ramp-up to roll-out phase. So, whatever solution consensus is arrived at through this discussion, it will have little to no impact on what LL has in the pipe right now. So, "drawing the discussion to a solution set", while a nice idea in the early stages of solution formation and brainstorming, actually is coming far too late to be of any benefit in that regard.



It does make sense, and is normally how it should be done; however, that's not really the focus of the discussion so late in the game. In fact, I am not really sure what it is, myself.

To defuse the indignation when the already-taken decisions become evident? This is a strategy brought to a fine art by the ----name removed by Drongle McMahon---- government, who refer to it as "full and open consultation".

Rather than completely banning an AV's ability to simply pass-through a parcel which is what most users seem to be complaining about, why not implement a no loitering policy?

It seems to me an easy matter to determine an AV's speed and trajectory as they enter a parcel and then determine how long it would take them to cross the parcel continuing along that path. If they stop for too long or deviate to much from from their path (i.e fly in circles) then politely move them along their original path to the next parcel. At least that would allow people to get from point A to point B without too much interruption and avoid the security orb pinball effect of being blindly bounced from parcel to parcel and never getting where you wanted to be.

The no-loitering settings would only be in effect if the land owner expressly turned it on.

Naturally this would cut into the business of the security orb vendors and upset an entirely different group of users.

You should also retain the ability for land owners to ban specific individuals (we all have an overly obsessed ex to deal with).

The sims should also hold a certain number of prims in reserve to allow vehicles to pass over parcels with no free prims.

if you dont want an intruder in your house - ask him to leave..if he/she doesnt apply an access restriction. But why leave ban lines turned on ? What harm can anyone do to your property if you have you land settings adjusted correctly ? How many people actually visit 'homes' anyway? Why hinder genuine explorers and people who may just want to look at - and admire - your build ?

And how much are those masses of ridiculous red wording impeding sl's function? No one is telling me that massive walls of red text are not using up resources that could be better employed elsewhere.

People say mega prims cause crashes and lag well they've never slowed or negatively impacted on me unlike the many ridiculous security measurements people set up needlessly.

I say what Ive always said security systems - including banlines - are legitimised griefing weapons.

I am glad to say though that I can see somewhat of a swing against banlines - and its long overdue.

While we're at it when is the problem of crossing sim borders or moving into a full parcel going to be tackled ? I know these were long standing problems when I joined sl over twelve months ago. You can jaunt between virtual worlds but fly over a regional boundary in your aircraft or move into a full packet and WHAP ! Youre putting in highways how about a few air lanes too ?? I still think a block of regions purely for the use of the many and varied land, sea and air vehicles can be flown freely would be a big boost to many sl users.

why we talking about ban lines its not issue here about ban lines its completly diffrent thing wich will prevent on your land to have store,club etc if you are in residental area and vice versa and it will probly mean that will increase land use tier for comercial purposes

I thought we were talking the future of the mainland...ban lines are part of the mainland...hopefully they wont be part of its future.

Because banlines or, more appropriately, "access lines", are presently the griefing tool du jour of many of the adfarmers / land extortionists.

Add my vote for removing access lines all together. They are completely worthless from a security & privacy stand point and just end up griefing everyone else. Or failing that Serious Serapis' idea of letting people pass through a parcel but not loiter on it would work, an auto return for avatars if you will.

I would like options to set the permissions on my land differently when I'm home and when I'm not.

I also like the idea of being able to allow people to stay for x minutes. This would allow passers through and also mean that people could arrive and I'd have so long to add them to the invite list.

or a timer against people when the owner is not online? I hit countless corners of access-only land and that annoys me to say the least. I just want to pass through, why not a 5 sec counter for those not on the ground, that's long enough to pass through a 4086

Yes. I've also seen scripts, particles and big flexi tentacle things used for griefing - those things should be removed from the mainland, too.

Dont' forget talking and shouting, very griefy. Oh, and having more than 2-3 avatars in a sim, that's griefy as well. Restrict mainland to only whispers and IM, and no more than 2 avatars per sim...

It's probably too late to seriously "clean up" mainland, but I can still see that it could improve.

I've always been on mainland for various reasons like not having to worry about being booted from "my" land and the additional freedom when it comes to what I want to do with it, so I'm not sure what to think about zoning and I would not like to see it on my existing land. I paid crazy amounts of L$ for some of the parcels I added to my existing land because it's Linden protected waterfront, and I really would not want to see that watersim being "developed" either - I bought it because I wanted the pure water view - and I had to pay a lot for some of it.
Mainland can be troublesome at times (and it has been for me as well) but has its advantages too.

I have not read all of this thread, but here's a few things that I would like to see change:

- Parcel encroachment: give parcel owners the ablilty to move those items back to the parcel they belong to, there's not even a need for returning items, just the ability of moving them back would be a great relief and would LL rid off many ARs. Maybe also something to handle particles floating wildly on a parcel they don't belong to.

- What about giving parcel owners additional prims for Linden plants only? There are so many areas that lack plants, so if there were some additional prims available only for this use that might make things more beautiful (e.g. 3-5 extra Linden plant prims for 512 parcels and so on). Not to be used for anything else

- Resources: It would be nice to see some kind of limitation like it has been said before, e.g. the club on a 2048 not being able to permanently have 30-40 avatars on that parcel so that the person owning half the sim can't actually use his much larger parcel any longer.

- Ban lines: Make them at least invisible on choice - I do not use them personally, but if someone doesn't want visitors at all so be it. If their visibility could be turned off by choice it would already help a lot with the appearance of sims.

- Tier: If tier was less expensive it would be easier to get some additional land to get that extra distance to other parcels, to spend more prims on landscaping, to improve the look of a sim. Maybe even have "low tier parcels" in sims that can't have anything on them but plants, rivers....

- Ad Farms: Pretty much all has been said about thouse, the way most of them operate right now - get rid of them!

- Land tools: I'm all for helping reduce lag so it would be nice to have some options e.g. in parcel settings to actually see if there accidently is a troublesome script running, right now it's nearly impossible to tell if you're not a scripter yourself and know very little about what causes lag in scripts - and even if you do you can't check no mod scripts for any indication of it anyway.

- I would also like to see some more options when it comes to "noise" - a setting that helps prevent people on my parcel having to hear shouting from other parcels from both avatars and objects. Right now all I can do is mute and I can't prevent visitors hearing it unless they also mute.

- I would love a setting that allows turning off the rendering of selected parcels or selected objects so they would no longer be rendered for anyone who's on my parcel at the time - it would also help reduce lag by not having to load thousands of additional textures that you don't even want to see - and if there's ever anything around that you consider an eyesore you'd just be able to not see it any longer with a click - more freedom and less grief at the same time.

- Change the default setting after land purchases to autoreturn on.

Long list, I know, but hope dies last

I agree we should surrender to griefers and go on our knees yust cos few players in SL cant handle ban lines and all inventions in SL

For better tomorow clean up SL from everyting scripts ban lines and what the hell objects as well cos we dont want some inocent flyer to hit the wall thinking its phantom yust cos he wished so

His question was "why are we talking about banlines in here?", not "what good are banlines?", with specific reference to "access lines", which are the issue.

I've not really said anything pro or con, except that their use for griefing should be curtailed.

Personally, I don't really see much practical need for them, but I recognize the emotional need. Perhaps that is all they were really meant to serve from the outset, but they are really a sledgehammer solution for a nutcracking problem.

I think it will be great to remove the uses of banlines and
private obs there block large areas. Mainland is common
land to travel over

Them there want bant a total private place thre actuly
works can buy them self a island and set it to no
public access

Bertram Merlin

again isssue is not ban lines they wont be changed what ever you say here it about setting mainland to residental and comercial areas stoping advertisments in residental areas etc...why you all welcoming idea if you dont even know whats idea about

That means you as owner of store club etc if by some accident your sim will be selected to become residental you will need move out or close a store and build your self home

Land is difficult to sell on the mainland as it has the reputation of lag and the uncertainty of who or what will be your neighbors. I have never seen my neighbors online as it happens but have tried to co-exist with them, developing the majority of my parcel as trees and grass and ponds.

This is one of the problems of the mainland is lack of space though. So everything is crammed in and walled in, with very few grassy yards or open areas. If you do intend to begin zoning Id recommend laying out a street grid in your residential and commercial areas. Maybe a garden or park area now and then with a sculpture of General Linden on a horse and some flowerbeds. Or a Clocktower with reflecting ponds.

Another issue on the Mainland is Sky clutter. I have a neighbors jet fighter nearby in my sky but I also have my workshop in the sky as do several neighbors. If it were possible to put workshops below ground skies might become alot prettier and would open the potential for caves in RP Sims without burning alot of prims.

The benefit of the Mainland is topography. It has mountains. It has lakes, it has rolling hills and cliffs. Rivers. Sim owners tend not to incorporate any of these but I love them.

I like flying around and seeing the winter sims, icy cliffs surrounding a curve of river, with a tiny pagoda in a snowstorm on the peak of a mountain are some of my favorite SL memories.

I think if LL did zone in "cities and towns" with Linden streets blocking out areas that it would take up some available Sim space, but if the remaining player spaces received double prims to use in their homes and apartments these would be extremely popular.

Restricting subdivision of parcel sizes does nothing to solve anything.

There is no difference between a 16m plot with 3 annoying prims set to sell at an outrageous price than a 512m plot with 117 annoying prims set an outrageous price.

In fact, the latter may be worse.

caves are excelent idea also would be nice if we could somehow add water for lakes etc...

Apologies if this has been covered before but I'm not reading 44 pages of posts. These are my thoughts.

1) Ban ad farms totally. If not, set a maximum land price per sq m to stop extortionists selling them for thousands of Lindens. Ad farms offer little value to the SL experience or the majority of residents. It's what 'search' is for.

2) Ensure that all 'abandoned land' is set to 1 minute autoreturn, instead of 'off'. This will stop the accumulation of junk that invariably happens, and stop people practising their building - that's what sandboxes are for.

3) If you must keep ban lines, make them visible both on the inside and the outside of the plot, perhaps in different colours. That will mean people can't forget they've turned them on, and plus they'll have to suffer the view their neighbours do if they've got them on. Add a 'mute ban lines' switch somewhere and views need no longer be ruined by your neighbours.

4) What makes a 'good build' is open to interpretation - but what makes a 'bad build' is fairly clear - flickering textures, building right up to the border, full bright/light purple blocks, rotating things that go over the border, etc. Get a team of volunteers (perhaps the 'moles' or other experienced builders (also volunteers) who are able to advise people on how to improve their building, where they request it.

5) Whilst at it, make a 200m - 400m aerial 'window' clear on all regions, to allow for flying vehicles. Make ban lines ineffective through this window. Build on the ground, or up in the sky if you wish - but leave some access.

That's a start.

It won't be worse ... it's still clearly griefing and should be reportable anyway, but at least it'll increase the costs for those who do wish to grief through advertising.

There are very few legitimate uses of a 16 sq m parcel disconnected from everything else - but plenty of illegitimate ones for griefing purposes.

The benefits to the betterment of the grid overall far, far outweigh the few that might lose out.

I'm aware you are one of those that would lose out. That's life. Sorry.

New Wind, I think you are quite worried over nada. While it is true zoning is definately part of the topic here, it is an overall topic on improving mainland. So, banlines, travel, ugly walls, zoning, are all a part of it. If zoning does become a part of old mainland, residential vs commercial, etc. then it is hard to see how they would apply this without allowing existing owners the continued use of their land as it is now. While LL has done some bonehead things in the past, forcing a business to a new sim is not something that would be likely, even for them.

DRD