Feedback on Ad Farm post

Ad farms make Baby Jesus Cry.

First, you can't plant anything on protected land. Unless they forgot to turn on autoreturn or no-build, that is. In that case, they have and do regularly police ARs related to prim litter on protected land.

Second, if it is on PRIVATE land next to / in front of your wonderful signs/messages, then that's just as much your neighbor's prerogative as you putting up your signs. If I were you, I'd take the hint.

Third, if said PRIVATE trees are hanging over your land, then you can easily get them moved / removed by 1) asking said neighbor to do so, and, failing that, 2) AR them and LL will move them for you. They sometimes take a while to get around to it, and I won't deny that they do seem rather slow and unresponsive at times to requests, but you're not unique in that problem, I assure you.

As for deception or fraudulent inducement.. wtf are you talking about? You're throwing around terms with no connection to anything. Who is deceiving or being induced to defraud whom? You put up a bunch of spammy billboards with (arguably intolerant) religious messages in people's frontyards and backyards. LL has determined that ALL abusive advertising, for whatever reason, is going to stop and be regulated from here on out. Now, you have to take it all down.

I'm sure you think you are doing "God's work" by spreading the "good word" to all the heathens and infidels, but what you are really doing is harassing your neighbors with unsightly spam. How would you like it if a Hindu put up statues of Krishna all around (and especially in your front yard) with quotes from the Mahābhārata?

Oh those, microplots that are stuck in extortion places but where most people will never see them.

Oh wow. You think your signs are better than other spam just because they are christian? Remember what happend to muslim people after 911? THAT was discrimination, but surely not removing your ridiculous signs.

Joannah
(convinced atheist)

I wish I had seen some of these billboards, to know what the fuss is about here.
But I consider things like this, if done tastefully, to be a public service and it should not be treated as advertising.
If Mark Edward is a true Christian who has put his own money to selflessly help people in world then that is admirable.



Placing Christian messages gives people the chance to think, it is not HARASSING and people don't have to look at it they can place trees etc. as some obviously do.
If just one person was helped and talks to other Christians in world then a service has been provided.

Further Christians are tolerant due to their beliefs and would not be upset by other religious artifacts billboards etc.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

Mark Edward

This is a very valid point it would be much better to have a large area with a beautiful church, where people could visit and ask questions etc.

We had one and a RL Pastor who spent most of his time there, to help people in our group unfortunately he left the game and I did not feel qualified to preach myself so we removed the church.

There is little point in placing signs in the centre of Adfarms as people do avoid these places.


I think this policy by LL should actually help genuine people like yourself

As your signs should become more visible when the number of Ads becomes limited per Sim.

All I can say is please be mindful of others as, I am sure you don't wish to cause offense to other users and end up doing our faith a disservice in the process.

I don't find quotes from religious scripture posted on unsightly billboards any less "advertising" than ads for beanbags.com. I also don't consider it a "public service". It doesn't serve me in any way as a member of the "public". Whether he is a "true Christian" (whatever that is) or not is irrelevant.



*I* find it harassing. I have been proselytized and harassed enough by so-called and self-proclaimed "Christians" in RL as it is. I don't have any more desire to endure it in SL, either. Religion belongs in the home and the church. I don't need to see it driving down the road or participating in a virtual world. "Being helped" isn't a sufficient excuse to support this form of advertising, since it can also be argued by any adfarmer that they "helped" their "viewers" as well. Let's not go down that road.

If putting up blocks was the only and best response to it, then why were we fighting the adfarmers to begin with?



You must know some different Christians than I have met, then. In my experience, anyone who introduces themselves as "Christian" immediately sends up warning flares the moment they utter the word. Intolerance seems to be as much a part of being "Christian" for many people as anything else. Just my experience, though YMMV. However, I am pretty adamant about not being spammed by religious messages in any form in public.



Exactly. The difference is that everyone is NOT entitled to harass others with said beliefs.

Let's not turn this into a discussion of religion in SL. As far as I'm concerned, a billboard is a billboard regardless of the message it displays.

If it is a legitimate use then there should be no problem receiving a "license" or whatever permission system LL comes up with for that purpose.

Beating your chest about no financial return is ridiculous as though we should appreciate your signs more because you have no return. You spent your money with no expectation of recompensation and we don't want to hear about it. It was your decision. I don't want your words spamming my SL existance. Nor do I want to have any other religious book's words in the air spaming me. I don't want any point of view or business spamming my enjoyment of my SL build. I don't think you are doing good works spamming. Spend the money to allieviate real suffering then without any labels that say, "I'm such a good doobee, aren't I" LL will be well served applying the new policy absolutely evenly. Less chance of wierd religious cults like you to legalistically steal money from our world. This is a christian attitude?, where's the money? all through your message. It is not discrimination unless you were the only one targeted.

From another point of view I purposfully look at every church, temple, sacred space that I see as a build. I voluntarilly go in because true spiritual people build with great sensitivity and much beauty. In these space I would expect to see their message , in it's proper place.
Blessed Be

Oh, speaking of "being helped by advertising", a certain Doctor comes to mind.

Talarus I agree with you a lot but leave off the fortune cookie cod psychology. Mwahaha

i respectfully suggest that the "licensing" for ads include these features:

1) A minimum size and standard shape for the plot on which the ad is to be placed... for example, a 16x32 plot. Yes, that's larger than necessary... but with the other features below, it will prevent crowding.

2) The inability of this plot to be terraformed or altered in shape or size, or to allow scripts, or for sound to be heard outside of it, or items to be placed at altitudes over 10m, or for ban lines to be placed around it. This isn't a residential plot, its for an ad.

3) The sign should go on one of a number of special low-prim Linden-provided "billboard" prim, that can be modified in very limited ways, just like the trees. While all supporting the same size sign, these can be designed to fit with different periods or architectural styles, so as not to be too out of place. The specific prim(s) to be used could be limited in the case of period or themed sims.

4) The prim should be able to be rotated, but should automatically snap to the center of the plot and be immovable. This will prevent it being pushed up against another plot, or being allowed to overlap.

5) The prim should be able to be linked to, and a second Linden-standard texture-mod-only prim attached as the actual ad.

6) The ad plot should automatically be set to "for sale", and the value automatically set at 3x the average L$/m^2 price of mainland land in the most recent key metrics. This allows residents who simply cannot stomach the idea of a visible ad to buy the land at a reasonable price, and keeps the advertiser from being ripped off by being forced to sell for no profit, or from extorting unreasonably high prices.


Most of this should be accessible on the build interface, under the "land" tab, a selection for "set land to allow ad" would automagically set the size of the parcel (if not correctly set already), revert the land to the correct terraform, check for number of other ads in the sim and their proximity (and return a specific error message if there are too many, or they are too close together), and set the land to allow only Linden Prims on it... to include the billboard objects, and a limited number of linden trees.

Further, since these areas will be using LESS than their potentially supportable allotment of prims, the extra prims should be placed into a "bank" and distributed to all the OTHER landowners in the sim (NOT the parcel owner where the ad is placed!), in INVERSE order to the size of their plots, as "restitution" for the presence of the ad. (Let's be real... people with 1/4 sim plots don't really NEED more prims, while those on a little 512 are usually scratching for ONE more prim... throw them a bone. )

You are not interested in what Mark Edwards billboards say so it is of no interest to you that doesn't mean it isn't of interest to anyone else



Unfortunately many people have a tendancy to have extreme viewpoints when it comes to religion whether it is as Christians, Muslims whichever faith.

However faith is just that a belief that sticks with you throughout life in all aspects not just on a sunday morning in church or for a few minutes before dinner.




If you read my posting above you will see my suggestion that Mark Edward might be better placed to have a single large area with a church than many billboards as this would provide a more effective means of outreach.



I know myself, husband and many of my RL friends.
I never introduced myself to you as a Christian have never tried to push my beliefs on you or anyone else, just responded to Mark Edward who is being attacked for his beliefs.



Mark Edward is not HARASSING he is attempting to send out a message he feels strongly about and perhaps needs a little tolerance and help to do it in a better way, if currently it is ineffective and disturbing to people

Since the new CEO of SL used to be CEO of digital media agency Organic, it's obvious where the ad business is going in SL - to the big guys.....wake up folks.

I haven't had any fish on my couch recently... besides, you'd have to have a really big fortune cookie to fit one in it.

Mmmmm.. fortune cookies!

Maybe so but, so what? Billboards are so... 20th century... and SL is supposed to be a platform for "disruptive" technologies and "forward" thinkers. Maybe we should be looking for new ways of connecting people to our products and/or services than loud, obnoxious, in-your-face advertising that so many people are fed up with in RL anyway?

Just a thought.

Mark Edward is not HARASSING he is attempting to send out a message he feels strongly about and perhaps needs a little tolerance and help to do it in a better way, if currently it is ineffective and disturbing to people[/QUOTE]

Marks message was to the effect "I'm being discriminated against. I put these up with no expectation of return, so why can't I keep them, I'm going to sue to get money in return. Not very Jesus like." He didn't say with christian humility, " how could I do this better so I don't offend the 70% of the rest of the world's religions or atheists or agnostices or spam Herne's build" Perception is the key and in SL putting your message in a way that others on their own land cannot excape is wrong regardless of the self percieved value of the message.

Not in this for the bucks - just refuse to be harassed and discriminated against. Linden can't have it both ways. Either they play fair or face the consequences in a court of law.

With God on your side i wont worry that much ...

The same could be argued of diaperbags.com ads.



Of course. I have rather extreme viewpoints concerning my own faith. However, you will NEVER see me put it up on a billboard to "help" others, since I know that it would probably incite more people than it would "help". Also because religion is an INTENSELY PERSONAL thing to me. I only externalize it to those who are willing to and express a desire to listen to it.



Never expressed concern about when, but about where, how, and in whose face.



I saw, and agree 100%. The response was tangential to this point, though.



..and I don't recall saying or even inferring otherwise. Certainly not ALL Christians have the issues I have witnessed, but IN MY EXPERIENCE, the ones that don't are most definitely the exception, not the rule. Still, it is irrelevant, because I feel harassed when I walk out my front door with someone else's belief system smacking me in the face, just as much as I feel harassed when someone's advertisement does so.



If I put up some sign next to your yard, and you tell me that you feel it is harassing you, then there is no argument. Regardless of the content, you feel harassed, and I am pushing it on you by putting it there. It isn't me standing there, it is a SIGN. I am not your neighbor in that case, I don't live there, and putting up harassing content is against the ToS. Now, that's an easy complaint for people to make against anything they don't like, but there are certain subjects, like advertising, religious messages, etc, which are definitely actionable under the ToS, and rightly so, since they can reasonably be argued by most people that they are harassment.

So, maybe you don't consider it harassment. That's fine. *I DO*, and I think it is fair to ask that it be removed, by force through AR, if necessary.

The Lindens are playing fair, they are trying to clean up the mess, that is the mainland for all of its users.

These proposals will help everyone you included.

Is it fair that people have the means to make other residents unhappy?
Profiteer from HARASSMENT?

No obviously not that is why they will be taking more of an interest in what goes on in world and are taking this action to prevent people being inconsiderate as regards to advertising.

If you are being sensible with your billboards then you should not be affected.

Certainly threatening legal action seems rather OTT

It would possibly be much more productive to ask the Lindens about your unique situation personally.

the new gaming the system is plave one vendor box on the 16 meter and 2 huge primes ,now i have a bussiness there to extort with

I've always rather suspected that the religious billboards (not just the Christian ones; there are plenty of others) were but a thin veil for just such a threat. Now there's no question.

(Oh. A suggestion for anybody thinking of "joining a law suit" like this: keep one hand on your wallet at all times.)

QFT

Wow, and here I was thinking *I* was the cynical one.