Feedback on Ad Farm post

Of course some people who obviously have absolutely no care for the mainland, or SL in general except as a source of profit have just taken this and gone on an ad cutting spree - which should show to LL that they do not deserve a license and more importantly that they are violating the TOS by being a public nuisance - The latest from a person who is certainly ROBOtic in nature: "Your source for tiny plots to future licensed advertisers in SL>BDVR" - not even knowing where such plots are to be allowed, this person continues to destroy mainland without regard, basically spitting in LL's and the residents of SL's faces. Something needs to be done to stop this NOW! Jack you should certainly see from not only the comments here regarding this person, but the actions that they have taken that this needs to be addressed sooner than later.

I keep seeing people talking about how impractical it would be to disallow parcels smaller than a certain size, yet most of the suggestions in this regard that I have read have specified that it is disallowing the SALE of parcels smaller than a certain size which is certainly doable. Disallowing the SALE of these parcels should be practical from both a technical standpoint as well as allowing landowners the ability to manage their land as needed.

To those advertisers who do seem to be willing to work with both the residents and LL on this (a very very short list I'm afraid), I applaud your efforts and hope that you continue to work towards a solution to this problem. To the rest of the unscrupulous (many of which defend themselves as being legitimate), even if you own 100 or more ad plots and lose them all, to you I say waaaaaaaa. For your greed and lack of caring I think you will find no sympathy from the residents who's land you have devalued, whose experiences you have soured, and who obvious from many of the comments here do not want you in SL with your ads or attitudes.

The ad cutters, and the extortionists need to be stopped, and it isn't a matter of Linden Labs making some arbitrary overnight decision here. This has been brought up again and again in the past YEARS as a major issue facing SL, and I am glad that steps are finally being taken to get rid of one of the biggest issues facing mainland - don't stop here though Jack, there are still plenty of other issues needing attention

Don't forget that every rezzed item is also its own advertisement, thanks to the edit dialog, creator link and picks. This is highly effective advertising and is the way I have found the huge majority of my purchases. It changes the equations a bit.

Ambiguity can be a two-edged sword. Coupled with vacilation it leaves room for loopholes, but coupled with determination it makes it easier to close them. At least Jack is sounding determined. So let us hope for the latter.

That is an illusion, I'm afraid. There is another neighbour on the other side of the road and these are facing him directly. Full bright should not be allowed. It is one of the most destructive ad-harassment features. It completely spoils the evening/night sky that LL put so much effort into creating.

There have been a few suggestions that licensed advertising should be located on existing protected road land. My neighbours, and to some extent myself, have expended a great deal of effort and money to recover the roadside from the cutters and to keep it from them thereafter. I am sure this is true for thousands of other (groups of) residents. Placing advertisements in the road despite these efforts would be a grave disservice to all of them. I plead most vehemently against this suggestion.

Well, Avion and Argent, everyone knows some people have the brass to show their face

No more ad farms, zoning, building codes, immediate ban against extortionists seem to be the staples of the policies to follow.

From what I have gathered from most of the residents' posts, except some comical attempts by ad-farmers to propose a change in an alleged agreement with LL concerning their alleged legitimate advertising, I have come to the conclusion that even licensing is not a good idea. But banning is a good solution for a problem that got out of hand.

I understand the concerns of those who are afraid that most ad farmers will remove their billboards and sell their little plots at outrageous prices. Well, don't buy them! By boycotting the delinquents, we will clean up our ad-infested ghettos and turn AdLand into Heaven again

Does it show I have a socialist background? LOL

I would also like to thank those who indirectly defended me against Cytherea Eagle.

Sandor

Yeah, that would be fine. Or use abandoned land. Or confiscated extortion microparcels. Or, I could even go along with license-holders being able to give land to the Governor if they happen to hold a location that LDPW finds acceptable.

I guess the most important thing that I'd want to achieve with this approach is to make absolutely certain that the location of the ads is completely controlled by LL, not by the licensees, and that everything on that land is there at the pleasure of the Governor.

Bob, with all due respect, we are not talking about people who are useful to the community and not even about people who live by the law of the land they live in in RL.

In RL Italy, where I live, ad farms or other forms of extortion you see in SL are prohibited, carrying and using weapons without a license is prohibited, eyesores have been demolished. Just to name a few examples of living by the laws of the land I live in in RL.

Sandor

Based on the posts here, it seems pretty universally understood that the ad licensing policy is intended to deal with unsuccessful and unacceptable in-world advertising, but will not particularly address the extortion problem.

This thread can either focus on feedback to the ad licensing policy itself, with additional suggestions for the details of its implementation and enforcement, or it can begin defining the anti-extortion policy that is needed as a follow-up. (Jack: Again, I beg you not to say that "market forces" will magically correct the problem once ad licensing is in place. It is a dead certainty that this will not happen. If that's not clear, we can outline the economic reasons here, or in another thread.)

The two problems are not completely orthogonal, so that would be one reason to link the discussions. For example, if ad licensees are allowed to use their own land for advertising, that makes the licenses themselves potential tools for extortion, so there would need to be anti-extortion provisions in the ad licenses, too. Perhaps these interrelated topics should be addressed together.

But it appears that "the advertising problem" and "the extortion problem" are on different timelines for policy implementation--and that's fine; if that's the case, perhaps this thread should be reserved to suggestions for the immediate advertising policy.

So, I'm not sure which way to go here: whether to start a thread somewhere else (Resident Answers?) to collect input on the extortion problem, or to continue here with a more systematic analysis of the extortion problem and the positive and undesired impacts of various proposed treatments.

Jack?

successfull ARs against licensees for any land harrasment should cause the licensees to to lose their permission to advertise.

One bare 16m2 parcel is on sale for 999999L$, is that extortion?
One bare 16m2 parcel next to it is not on sale, is that extortion?
I stand up for the right parcel owners on the mainland have: to set their land for sale at any price;
NOBODY can force ANYBODY to buy

Note: a bare parcel is what you get when the ad farmer removes the ad from the parcel.

There is indeed some interesting reading at IAB.

Especially important is the breadth of non-mechanical, "social" aspects of responsible advertising policy: e.g., Privacy, Auditability, Accreditation and Email Ethical considerations. I've mentioned before that third-party audits are essential for in-world advertising metrics to have any credibility (hence the need for third-party scripts in any approved networked advertising prims), the referenced guidelines really remind us that "size" and "placement" are far from the only considerations for the future success of responsible advertising in virtual worlds.

It's also an interesting exercise to try to map in-world advertising to the webpage model, which is the one most completely addressed by the IAB guidelines: the contrasts that emerge are stunning. For example, I'd often thought of in-world display ads as vaguely analogous to web banner ads, but when you consider the ownership of non-advertising content in the two domains, it's very different. On the web, the owner of the non-advertising content--the content that actually draws people to the site--have complete control over the existence, size, location, and provider of the ad content. In contrast, current in-world display ads are completely outside the control of the providers of the non-advertising content (surrounding landowners). While that sounds like pure spam, to keep with the webpage analogy, it's really more like a pop-up ad that can't be blocked or closed... that just stays in view regardless of what page one navigates to in the main browser window. Of course such pop-ups are strictly forbidden in the IAB guidelines, so... well, nobody said this would be easy.

The implied conclusion there seems very easy to me!

I think the most stupid way of advertising in SL is placing billboards somewhere in plain land. Why? Just because there is almost no traffic! Who shall see such a sign? Only the neighbours of course, and just as in RL nobody is happy to see an adboard in front of his window - be it lincensed or not.

I see only one profiteer in this kind of business: the advertiser himself. Not the community and not his customers. Period.

Billboards in malls or clubs are okay, 'cause these are places where people meet. But don't forget: most shops are found because people looked for something in search, SLexchange or OnRez, but surely NOT 'cause of any kind of billboard.

So there may be an easy conclusion: Advertising in places like shops, clubs, malls etc YES, billboards in the plain landscape NO.

I have absolutely no sympathy for all those ad farmers here, moaning and seeing their business going down the plug hole. They had time enough to degrade mainland. Now it's time for them to get lost!

some rules to success

Ads in general:
- forbid all advertising on plots below 512m² (such ads can barely be targeted to the inside)

- dont allow advertising on bigger than 512m² plots when it obviously abuses the neighboring land and is targeted to the neighbouring parcels.

- Allow any ads on 512m² or bigger plots that can only (or basically) be seen from the plot itself like ads in a club or mall. Allow the ads when they are targeted to the inside of the land and do use the ads own land traffic to advertise - not the areas around.


For sale ads:
- Parcels smaller than 4096m² are only allowed to hold 1 for sale ad

- think about linking the "for sale" ads max height to the sq of land that is in one piece. Some rule like 2048 allows for sale sign with height of 10m, 4092 allows for sale sign with height of 20m, 8192 -> 40m and so on .... could be imagined if it is not to complicated at the end and does not allow any dodging like making very long but narrow plots!!!

- forbid any spinning for sale ads, forbid any flying and spinning ads, forbid any spinning ads bigger than 30m² (for sim performance's sake)


Treatment:
- act only in the case of a complaint but act fast then and based on simply traceable guidelines

- send an email about violation of rules to the originator and give at least 10 days to fix the problem. Also send an inworld message (if any possible) that reminds this person in case it is not checking SL emails frequently.

- invent some kind of penalty for frequent violatiors

- create some certifcated database where anyone can look up easily if ones ads are legal or not and add for example an info field to the profile of ones avatar that connects to one inwolrd database or one webpage showing the profile or smth like this.

this is what I basically consider to be good
greetings Lonique



greetings Lonique

Just in passing: while I was checking on a tenant problem, I noticed the BTE Global towers are still displaying the "Church of Landtology" graphics. That might not be the best means of demonstrating eagerness for a smooth transition. It's rather more like biting the hand that's choosing who to feed.

I admit it... i have ad plots... i abide by the rules as expressly laid out by Lindens "Current policy allows adverts...." (blog:Tuesday, August 5th, 2008 at 11:02 AM by: Jack Linden)... in return for abiding by the rules... i have been harassed, griefed, abused, threatened, lied about, slandered and more.
My ads advertise legitimate businesses - my own (visit and you'll see i make some great products)... and i get good results - click rates as high as 7-9% per day depending on the ad. My most frequently clicked ad is for my large art gallery promoting RL artists in SL.
Ask any friends or customers and you will find i provide great, prompt, and friendly service.
Where people have approached me reasonably i have swapped or sold parcels for less than $400LD (about a $1.50 for all the time it takes to find, buy, setup, then reset for sale AND none are set for sale, I prefer not to sell cause it's usually not worth my time for the pittance i get offered). Where people are rude or trying to bully - i simply dont sell.
I do not extort. I do not bully. I am not in the business of selling land for profit.
I ONLY buy land on mature rated, uncovenanted, Mainland. I do not advertise sex or any sex related items. And i am against extortion via high land prices, ban lines etc.
I see in these forums a lot of people spewing hatred and name calling... basically it seems cause they cannot get their own way..and making any argument to justify it.
"that ****** extortionist won't sell me the land i want at what i think is a reasonable price" or "i don't like that 'thing' in my view therefore the person is ruining my experience"
The facts remain; mainland is uncovenanted, advertising a business is a fact of life, and there are problems with extortion for high land prices.
This new policy does nothing to cure the actual problem - extortion.
Extortion via ban lines
Extortion via high prices
Extortion via blocking/walling in
Extortion via high color, bright flashing rotating pseudo ads for non-businesses.
This policy will not satisfy the vehement name callers - it'll be ban the 'for sale' signs next - then "make that person sell to me", then "i don't like his colored wall". This policy will not stop advertising. And it will not stop extortion. And it won't stop land cutters.
What it will do is stop some advertisers - probably the least of the actual problem. And it will stop legitimate advertisers like me (yes - i hear the chorus of yays) 'cause i ain't gonna pay Lindens more money for an advertising network - even if it is a license to make money (which it is) - it is simply not part of my business plan.
I realise it's a starting point but feel it simply won't work - witness the Marxs etc adjusting already.
Only two solutions i can see - add a visual mute function so people can avoid what they simply don't want to see.... or disallow any price above $xx per square metre to make land cutting and resale simply uneconomic.
I for one, am opting out before the date... but one final word... Jack has asked for suggestions on policy...those of you in here name calling and multiple posting to argue your points - where are you gonna direct your anger after?

Ah!

Great news. I will not miss those forests of ads spinning and flashing with bad tastes, growing like wild weed. However, this licensing process unless regulated properly WILL create a very lucrative monopoly for the licensees and the fewer of them there will be the more those able to adverstise will become tycoons.

Mainland business relies on advertising and I believe it is important that some possibilities can remain to do so. I think that price regulations should be applied because, after the change, you can bet all you have that there will be some powermongers with prohibitive marketting prices emerging.

Thank you for the initiative, LL

I think the new zoned advertising areas need to go on new sims, or an application can be made if someone owns a whole sim. People aren't going to want licensed ad towers appearing on their doorstep.

Wouldnt it be better to remove your orange one prim 30 m tall cubes instead of posting a long letter here ???

Solutions enough offered here .. give LLC some time to work on it.

I like the right to not have to see content such as delinquent spinning cubes.

Another question to advertisers: How many of those clicks are people clicking the wrong mouse button when they were actually inspecting the object to see what tool is ruining their landscape?

Lol Timo just proving my point - yet another name caller - if you can prove i harass..then AR me - it's against TOS.
I don't use spinning cubes nor one prim orange 30 metre high ads so stop with false accusations - you're simply showing your ignorance - and it's not your right to dictate what others build on their land when its within rules Ewan - you chose to live on uncovenanted land.
As for clicks? as an example a recent half price sale raised turnover 160% extra in that shop..despite being half price. If it wasn't economic then it wouldn't be done.
You both prove my point - despite me stating i would do the "right" thing (according to the new rules) both of you couldn't resist the chance at cheap shots.
Much respect to those of you who posted ideas and potential solutions without resorting to name calling and abuse.

Just build a region called "Advertising Island", give access only to ad farmers and build a huge banline around it. So those guys can play their game and leave use ordinary people alone.

The reason i react to your posting mr JubJub is that you pretend to be a nice guy but your inworld behaviour is totally the opposite.

Several incidents about you were reported and even in one you made a woman cry ! Now you are the MAN ! .. feeling proud mr Hero ? ..

Indeed off the record somehow but certainly Ad Farm related as you are an non-extortioning Ad Farmer

We are all aware of your activities, its a small world mr JuBJuB-i-put-cubes-at-your-Border

..info available inworld ..

Right, existing SL extort^H^H^H^H^H^Hadvertisers are trying to apply a real world model of advertising to the virtual world. Some additions to what you said:

With teleporting, I can as easily go to something 2 sims over as on an island far, far away.

If I am walking through an area, I am hardly going to stand around and stare at an ad farm while all of it's textures rez (especially with the rotating textures they use).

If I am somewhere a long period of time and all the textures to load I will just know to avoid that place they advertise because it contributes to annoying me.

Unless I use search to find some uncommon item, I probably will go more on friend recommendations than anything else.