Feedback on Ad Farm post

Since the announcement of Lindenlab about the deletion of the advertising some owners - lands of 16sqm -connected them in order to persuade that it was not any more a question of Ads Farm. Then they put their lands on sale for prohibitive prices. Recently ROBO Marx who is a land's baron - specialist of the scrap of block 16sqm - set up on these lands gambling machines instead of the advertising.

See picture : http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5729/adsfarmgd0.jpg

SURL : http://slurl.com/secondlife/Paneer/133/252/232

Group : Price Roux Trust
Owner : ROBO Marx

When Linden will react as it is necessary to avoid this kind of drift, because such persons tempt by all the means to by-pass the law. And more especially because gambling machines are not authorized in SL ( money games forbidden).

Another group which puts ADS Farm on SL :

Group : GnuSense Marketing
Owner : GnuSense Shepherd

In my case, I had no choice. At the time, every 20-30m in my region in every direction these things had cropped up. It was either expand and hope that the people would be reasonable and sell for a reasonable price, or move to another sim. Several were. At the time, I was not aware of the level of opportunism that some people were willing to stoop to. When they became belligerent, trying to force me to buy them out, or otherwise harassing me over it, it became a challenge.

I don't *need* their holes. Yes, I would like to have them. Yes, I am going to continue to offer ~FMV for them. The ones who continue to harass me over it will get banned, and I will end up with them eventually no matter what. I am prepared to wait. So far, I have whittled the adfarms down from ~4096sqm to under 800sqm.

But I have a roadside shop (a proper brick building with vendors inside) on a 480m2 plot, and that's all I have on that particular sim. Your suggestion means I would have to sell (before a predetermined date) and lose the regular sales that I make from it.

As I have trawled through the posts I notice many have asked what about ADFARMING or PLOT EXTORTION well when we read carefully Jack touches on it here showing the Lindens intentions.

Jack stated "As for related forms of exploitation, yes we're aware of that problem. We've made a commitment to improve the Mainland and activities that clearly go against that will be dealt with too. Just as any resident estate owner makes choices about what they deem reasonable on their own estate, we will look at each situation and edge case and make the common sense decision. We have that discretion; if we believe a given activity is reasonable and a positive benefit for the Mainland then we can choose to allow it. Will people try to get around the rules? That seems likely, but again we can deal with that, particularly if we feel it is harmful to the health of the Mainland as a whole"


This shows they are aware and prepared to do something about this terrible blight why not give them some additional proposals to help, rather than continuing to tell them what they already know?


I for one would like to see the extension of licenses to have the ability to hold multiple small sized plots in more than one or two Sims.

How would this help?

Well it would still allow standard users as a single payed up premium account to own a small plot near their own land but not allow them to hold literally hundreds or even thousands all over the mainland, Groups would only be allowed to hold small plots if LL have verified the requirement for a legitimate purpose and issued the Group a license.

It would be easy for LL to check the number of plots owned by bringing up an avatar or groups land holdings.

The idea probably needs some tweaking as it would need to make sure many single avatars did not club together and continue adfarming with ALT accounts.

Any way it is my simple idea to stop ADFARMING EXTORTION once and for all yet still allow legitimate uses for small plots by established thoughtful companies like Blue button holding under license as well as new players starting out with a couple of small plots until they can grow.

If I have missed anything glaringly obvious please point out my mistakes

and please remember the Lindens in this forum have asked for ideas and seem willing to use a common sense approach to tackle this problem.

Dude, what do you think I have been doing? Why do you think I know so much about this scam? Sometimes, LL fixes it, sometimes they can't, because it has been too long since the transaction before the owner found out.



Yah, I know. I have been doing it over a whole REGION for the last EIGHT MONTHS.

I don't want to see limits on the sizes of plots you can own, HOWEVER, I *DO* want to see restrictions on how certain types of plots are used, ESPECIALLY small plots <256sqm. That's part of why we've been waging this war over both extortion and advertising, because these are COMPLETELY ILLEGITIMATE USES of microparcels, or at least have been, from the behavior of the parasites involved. I also am in support of eminent domain for surrounded microplots, basically, you either negotiate in good faith with the owner of the larger surrounding plot, or it gets confiscated and sold to him anyway. Negotiations CAN include swaps.

If LL is serious about healing the mainland and reducing/eliminating this scourge, they are going to HAVE to do it. There are simply FAR too many of these plots around to be able to reasonably assemble larger plots in many regions. In some regions, you're lucky to be able to reassemble a 2048sqm plot which is rectangular without holes or corners missing.

But... if someone purchase a whole sim, then votes to allow ads, and after that starts selling off parcels to people that don't know ads are allowed (no ads there yet)....

Then the new owners can petition for a revote.

That just makes it more expensive--and I'm sure that given the question "What's it worth to you to really get [insert victim's name] riled up?" in some situations the would-be harrasser would answer "Quite a bit," or even solicit funds from other people of like mind.

If We could someday have a conversation about Private Islands and how LL is competing with their own customers to the point of putting them out of business?

If we could someday have a conversation about the Showcase and how LL is leading people by the nose to some favored group of businesses and away from businesses who are paying LL for tiers and advertising to operate?

It sure would be nice if LL would quit hiding behind their policies and address the issues that have already killed the land resale market and are depressing the retail store market by 30-40%.

Yeah, he already had a loophole plan ready to go before the ink was dry on the new announcement.

http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/643

Licensed advertisers will hopefully not believe they have an assured right to transmit their content across my build. They will have the right to put up their advertising in an approved manner on their land but if it transmits content across my property that I don't want myself or my guests to view in any manner, just as in RL web, popup blocking, I can erect whatever I want to block that spam so long as I don't infringe on anothers property.

Hopefully LL will chose sites based on actual traffic patterns and not allow ads facing into residential, natural or entertainment areas.

The right to build on your land will not be infringed by someone else on another property and that is what the ad farms have been doing, infringing on our ability to build beautiful simulations. Our creative solutions to the ad farmers arrogance do not abridge your right to build whatever you want on yours within the TOS, though the past rabid ad farmer self interest has forced LL into regulating it finally, before even the relative NOOB like me left. It's boring being constantly annoyed at some idiots idea of legitimate advertising schemes and after years of advertising experience realize mostly they are rank amatuers, scamming everyone.

Advertising in SL where everyone teleports unless their out for the equivalant of a Sunday fly is ridiculous and only used for some other pupose, extortion or scamming companies that don't know any better and are just saying wheoo we have virtual presense.

A kiosk system with entertaining ads within, around the info hubs and occaisionally along the LL roads at major traffic vertexes, or privately within businesses( this is self regulating, if you don't like it you don't go back) should be it.
Fix the search engine so its not always full of BS, so you actually find what you want and teleport. Multiply by a magnitude the showcase feature with a more detailed index and teleport.

And praise the goddess that Linden Labs and Jack Linden have started this cleanup. As a reponsible participating member of the community I thank you again.

Do you want to see worst?

Cortina http://slurl.com/secondlife/Cortina/49/69/94
Group: PRIM PLUS
Owner: Luke Termagant
Area: 560m2 composed of more than 12 parcels
Price: 89000 Lindens
Price per meter: 158.928 Lindens

Cortina http://slurl.com/secondlife/Cortina/66/47/98
Group: TIER FREE SIM PROJECT
Owner: Anylyn Hax
Area: 16m2
Price: 99999 Lindens
Price per meter: 6249.937 Lindens
Robo Marx and Krk Hax are there too as are some other 10 “leeches”!

This is a step which will significantly enhance the experience of those of us who live in the mainland. LL, Huzzah!

Licensee’s will be limited in number, capped to a specific number of advert locations and with strict rules about how their adverts look.

=============================================

A limited number of licensees opens the door to sweetheart deals, favoritism, collusion and monopoly. We need precise clarification on what Linden Lab means by this.

IF licensees must be limited, the lifetime of the license should also be limited so that all residents have a fair and equal chance to take advantage of this license. There should be a reasonable grace period before reapplying for another license. Residents should not be allowed more than one license and that license should not be transferable to any other party including the advertiser's alt. One license per resident should be the standard, no alt accounts allowed, no groups leveraging the power of multiple licenses allowed.

Dirk Talamasca

I’ve been accused of defending extreme solutions before, so please don’t!

But I can’t bear to see some Ad farmers/Extortionists, here, defending the indefensible!

Extremist? Perhaps … if you want to, but wouldn’t it be simpler to BAN those LEECHES?

Greater Minds will certainly submit other solutions, I’m sure

Um do something about it if you are serious about enforcing it.
Don't make it our jobs to report or show us you're serious when we do report them.
It is your server you know what is where the ad plots are for sale for outrageous amounts and draining sim resources.
Do something about it to show us you're serious.

Jack

I would like to bring to your attention the fact that certain known ADFARMERS are already proving themselves to be unworthy of one of these new licenses


This information was passed to me in world about 5 minutes ago.

A certain person with surname MARX is still cutting like mad after this announcement has been made

WHY?

Obviously he must think he will get a license and continue to operate in his current underhand ways.

please feel free to check the following locations for proof -

Mordreds crossing 31-208
Strata 71-25
Trapeti 133-95

This statement of intent was taken from the individuals company website

Well depending on how LL changes the new advertising policy from day to day, and who they favor for licenses, we have laid temp groundwork for our plans:
1 We will continue to supply land to licensed advertisers for now.
2 We will not advertise the gaming area on plots, but instead will open small gaming areas throught the ML that will supply Lms to avis that ask for them if they choose to go to the main gaming area.(all which will change as LL changes its mind)
3. We will attempt to obtain one of the limited advertising licenses.(though we feel this is probably just another TAX by LL, not really support for residents of SL)


I personally see this a clear statement of intention and hope with every fibre of my body that as such, this particular individual will never be granted any license.

It's amazing that Linden Lab, who used to say "Live by the Law of the land you are in, in
Real Life". I suppose that no longer applies to the owners of mainland land?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Ad Farms myself, but please tell me just why do the owners of the AdFarm land have less rights then the owners of the other mainland land?

Unfortunately, Linden Lab has started down that slippery slope and it won't be but a matter of time when others will lose other rights to the land they purchased.

Congratulations Jack and Linden Lab, you have begun the first steps of taking away the rights of other Land Owners.

Death to Freedom, Death to Ad Farms, and Death to ....., fill in the blank, because eventually with enough people complaining about it, Linden Lab will do it, no matter how wrong it might be.

Jack here is another example


This time taken from the website of a certain person with surname CAMILO

I am immediately targeting to get my hands to a license, and this turns around MAI plans for future completely. As a shareholder please give feedback.

The new plan for MAI (full group name removed by Esther to comply with forum rules) is:

* Keep selling the parcels at high prices for now
* Develop an ultimate advertiser's toolkit, automation all the way around
* After license acquirement, VERY aggressive relaunch
* Raise the advertising prices somewhat to a better profit margin ratio



This was posted today, so again shows a clear intent to continue extorting people until prevented from doing so



I personally see this as poor intentions from the outset and again would hope common sense prevents such a person ever holding a license.

What is the point in mentioning a very aggressive relaunch, this I find particularly worrying along with the intent to continue selling parcels high!

Esther's post brings up an interesting point.

I believe that advertisers should actually hold and pay tier on the land on which their advertisements are placed. In effect this will prevent ads from maintaining any sort of stranglehold on specific parcels. In other words, there will be people slicing up land near high traffic locations to rent them out to residents that have a license, with the specific purpose of advertisements holding and maintaining that parcel permanently. This should not be allowed. Advertising bound by licenses should only be allowed on parcels that you own personally.

Dirk Talamasca

Want to see at a glance the extent of the problem in YOUR sim?

I loaded all the mainland sims into a database.

http://landtracker.co.cc/mainlandsims

Go there and clck on any sim to check it out.

Grey listings are not for sale.
Green are less than L$6/m2
Yellow are between L$6 and L$10/m2
Red is any land over L$10/m2.

For fun, you can also click on a landowner and see the rest of the land that owner holds.

Cheers!

I can applaud the original idea behind the mainland. Let people loose to create what sort of world they want, with little control, within the restrictions of the environment. As great of an idea that is, it is supremely idealistic. LL is finding out that maybe this just wasn't the best way to go about things. Only one problem, now LL must clean up the mess.

My friends, anarchy is dead.

You see, the problem is that there are people who will spend lots of time and money just to annoy someone else. I think back to my college years when I would be doing work while a group would be clustered around a row of computers having 'channel' or 'Op' wars on Internet Relay Chat (IRC). These supposed adults would harass and take over chat rooms because they thought it was the most fun thing they could be having in college. I shudder at what they might have been doing if they did not nave to actually go to a class once in a while.

Second Life is yet another venue for people who think that causing grief is the most fun thing in the world. These people will not stop just because we complain about them, they will not stop looking for ways to abuse the system, and people, just because we put in some mechanism to remove their latest attack on a pleasant and peaceable second, or first, life. In fact, these people consider it a challenge to overcome whatever obstacle that is put in the way of whatever thing they feel they have the right to do.

It may be a problem for residents, a long-avoided job for LL, but to people like this it's a game. A game that they will continue to play as long as there is a chance that they will get some fed-up resident to pony up to the table and lay down the cash to take out the trash. Money that they will turn around and use to find some bigger fish to fry, or even just more of them.

Even when the reason are not racial, cultural or sexual, there are people who want to harass you just because you are. You exist, and you do not live up to their ideas of how you should be, therefore they will harass you or at the very least, try to score off you.

It all boils down to respect.

Linden Labs, it's time you put on you cowboy boots and learn to dance.

We the residents do not have the power to clean up the grid. We can help though. There are a lot of good, thoughtful arguments on this thread. The plain and simple truth is that no matter what you do, LL, they will react. They may react in mays that you will not expect but they will certainly react in ways that you will not like.

As several people have already stated, the real issue is not the advertising. That is just one of the many tools they use. Hey, if they could tag our buildings, they would.

So what do we do about it? Well, LL the answer is not easy because once you bring out one solution, they bring out a new problem. To best deal with this evolving threat, LL you will have to get more involved with this little world that you have created. You are the only ones that can stem the tide of abuses. This is your bus, you need to take a ride and see how it really is.

This proposal is a good step in the right direction, however LL will have to devote more human hours, more brains and likely more money to this problem. This means too that you will need to work more with us, the residents premium or not, if you want to make these sorts of abuses a thing of the past.

LL has been getting better, over my three years in SL anyway, with hearing resident concerns through town hall meetings, office hours and blog comments and this thread is a perfect example of that. Now, let LL take it the one step further and clean up SL so that once again it is enjoyable for the majority.

I think that the LDPW is a good start on one of the drawbacks of the mainland, the chaotic environment that does not lead well to exploring, one of my favorite pastimes. Now I think that LL needs to come up with a task force of Lindens and residents with the ultimate goal of cleaning up the excessive ads, the dishonestly parceled land and the otherwise shady practices of these people.

No automatic system will work for more then a few minutes. A strictly outlined document will need to revised and amended so often that it will become almost meaningless.

The only thing that will work for long is a dedicated team, a task force with the power to remove trouble makers, to make the changes that need to be made.

I know that this will scare some people, but the analogy is that of a real city which imposes sign ordinances, zoning laws and so on. Unlike real life, however, LL has every right to ban you if you do not wish to play by the rules.

That is what it will really take to get this world under control.

I and many of my friends would much prefer walking through themed neighborhoods rather then a random jumble of stuff that has no relation to anything. Save that for the abstract and impressionist art. We want to come here to hang out in a place that is fun, not too laggy and more visually appealing then what many people see when they look out the window.

Peace.

but then the people that bought the ad spaces knowing it was zoned for ads would start whining... demanding LL pay them back for monies spent (oh, wait, that's the casinos... nah... they would do it also)

Tough noogies. That's life in the advertising "fast lane", as they say.

As long as the system is documented up-front, no one has a right to complain.

I would have to agree that splitting off small parcels for market stalls is a legitimate use of small parcels for start up retailers who don't have the resources yet to buy land, and yet able to give them a search presence for their start up.

Others will create small parcels for search landing points within their store, or for demonstration displays for things such as SL media viewers.