Thank You SL

Of course. Is anyone trying to deny anyone that freedom?

Indirectly yes. Some people do tend to want to shout down the "freeloaders". Premium elitism exists., speakiing as someone who has been on both sides of the Premium?Free fence. During the doomed talks with Blue about how to improve the forums it was even suggested by a few people to limit forum access to Premium residents only.

The OP has her right to her objection to LL's policies and to voice them, but also she is free to stop using SL if she does not wish to comply as it is LL's right to implement any rules they wish.

I haven't seen anyone attemtping to stop Debra, or anyone else, from writing their opinions. And I haven't seen any "shouting down" here either, but shouting down isn't denying someone the right to voice their opinions. It's strongly disagreeing with them, that's all. Debra's view is that the system should allow her to go to adult places, and she's entitled to that view, and to post it. My opinion is that, since she isn't a paying customer, she has no 'entitlement' to anything in SL. I am free to hold that view too, and to post it. So what's all this stuff about having opinions and expressing them? We've all been doing that, and I don't recall anyone telling anyone to stop. Disagreeing with someone does not constitute an attempt to prevent them from writing their opinions. If it did, we'd have very few discussions here.

We all have the right to have our complaints ignored by Linden Lab.

I dunno. Since I pay Linden Labs plenty for my sims and if I (or one of my tenants) choose to invite someone to visit one of them, I think I've got grounds for complaint if Linden Labs mess the guests, my tenants and me about, making them jump through hoops to accept this invitation, and I think they do, too.

I don't think Linden Labs will take a blind bit of notice, but I don't think the fact our complaints will fall on deaf ears makes them groundless.

Am I dealing with a child here that does not understand economics and who is trying to put me on a guilt trip? Money is brought into SL because I removed it from others pockets which then had to be replaced. I have already posted that I brought the money in indirectly (try reading all my posts). As for others giving the information I choose not to, that is their choice. If they however decided not to do that, that would be one hell of a problem for SL, wouldn't it. I would guess it would change things a little, not just in SL, but worldwide if it ever caught on. It's amazing what you can do with cash, after all, that is how it used to be done; but some people just seem to think it can't because they lack any ability to look past the tip of their nose. Unfortunately, history shows that it can. Does anyone here know that so called pre-paid credit cards are not accepted by a lot of sites? You should ask yourself why that is. They are even rejected on sites where there is not need to be over 18. Don't play intellectual games with me Innula, you are not up to it. But silly me, those sites have a perfect right not to accept them. Still, I wonder why they do that.

No, but because they wanted it changed from 21 to 25 and went to the government and got it changed so forcing all the supermarkets to do the same.

It's called corporate fascism, and its coming to a neighbourhood near you.

So, how do you propose getting this cash without having to give anyone any of your information? Or are you advocating lying on your resumes and job applications?

Do you say that people spent more in SL than otherwise they would have done because of your being here? That is, do you say that people actually increased their spending in order to buy your products, as opposed to not spending the money on something else?

"I was planning to spend so many USD on SL this month, but because I really have to buy Debra's stuff as well as everything else I was planning to buy, I'll buy some extra L$?"

Oh, it's been here for about 50 years now. You aren't telling me anything new.

Still trying to snap those teeth at my ankles are we Phil. I've always made it plain I've done it indirectly. Playing around with technicalities won't help you. This game is called Second Life, and its a copy of real life where I don't pay to live either. It doesn't matter how I bring in the money, whether directly or indirectly, I do bring it in and it gets paid to the Lindens through property taxation whether you like that fact or not.

At the end of the day its just rent anyway, you just have more rights where they say its owned. And yes, governor linden was never my landlord.

Your arguments are a bit academic Phil because there was a huge dislike from paying members who were just ignored. You could see how the consulting on the forum was just an exercise in making it seem as if sl was listening. It was a joke. And then the real truth came out that it was all about a law that Congress was going to pass. So the proof was out that it was going to happen whether anyone liked it or not. And I am not going to comply like a good little sheep.

Thing is, Debra, that everyone has not 'decided not to do that'. SL doesn't seem to have a problem in that area, at all. Apparantly there are plenty of SL residents that are choosing to provide info and cash into the Linden tills. Because, if that were not true, then LL would be out of bizness and SL would be a closed down wasteland. And it's not, it's going strong. But I guess that, each person, in the end, has to live with themselves and their choices, even if that choice, in a particular matter, didn't really change anything, or stop the show. Again, I do wish you the best, Debra.

I really cannot believe the things you turn up with. But I like your attempt at trying to trap me, nice try.

You didn't answer the question.

Do you have proof that is not the case? You know as well as I do that even if it's just one dollar, I'll be right.

You obviously have no idea what marketing can do. You obviously have no idea that people spend with the emotions.

It's not me who needs help, Debra. You're the one who can't go to places that you'd like to go to. And let's get it straight - you haven't done anything indirectly - you haven't put any money into SL or into LL's coffers - period. You use SL for free, so you don't have any justifiable grounds for complaint now that you can't use it as fully as you'd like to.

You don't bring it in at all. Live with it.

You don't bring it in at all. As someone posted, some people who bring it in pass some of it to you. If you weren't selling something, they'd pass it to someone else, and LL would get some it that way. *You* use SL for free, you don't benefit LL finacially at all, and you don't have any grounds for complaint.

That's a valid complaint that involves people who use SL for free - and a *very* good complaint too. But, as as a paying customer, the grounds for complaint are yours rather than the free users who can't get to the places you rent out. They have genuine grounds for huge disappointment.

It doesn't matter who complained about it. The fact is that *you* are using someone else's system for free. If the owners decide to prevent you from using it as fully as you used to use it, you can't complain. You can be hugely disappointed, but, as a free user, you have no rights or entitlements in the matter.

Of course If you tell that people were so knocked out by your marketing that they cried, "wow.. I'll have some of that and, furthermore, I'll buy it in addition to everything else I was going to buy this month," I don't have any proof they didn't.

However, I must say I find it rather difficult to believe they did actually say that and, if they did, I wonder if they really did what they told you they were doing.

But it's neither here nor there. As I've said before, there are certainly plenty of people, including me, who do directly pay Linden Labs a fair bit of money and they didn't listen to us about account verification. If you think you'll get any further with them, best of luck.

But what I still don't understand is, if you told them the truth when first you signed up with SL, you have such objections to verifying with PayPal, because you really won't, as far as I can see, be telling Linden Labs anything they don't already know other than that you've got a PayPal account in good standing.

Yeah, this. I'm curious, exactly what information is Linden Lab asking for to share with their buddies at the NSA that the MiB don't already know?

I'm pretty sure the government already knows the last 4 digits of your SSN.

Yeah but they probably don't know you like to dress up like a Penquin and do unspeakable things to unsuspecting people.

At least I know my tax dollars are going to good use.

All of the information that is needed has been entered at one time or another onto a computer. Probably into a website. Guess what? If you look for certain places, you can get most of that information for the right price, too. And that's only for the outdated age verification system!

The main way to get onto the Zindra section of the grid is to simply spend a little USD with LL. It's that simple. You don't have to be premium to do that and if you're an old school basic account from before '06, you've already passed go and collecting L$50 a week! Just has to say, "Payment Info Used."

Hey, since you gotta pay for your kinks anyways, might as well buy the L$ to be able to go to them!