Any Land Owners interested in a class action suit?

Really ...the forums is about the last fun thing to play with in SL......I had my fun for the night...you all have a good night HUGGS!

Well as I stated in a previous post, I took the time to have a real attorney examine the document in question (the Linden Labs Terms of Service), and so as sad as it may be I am fully aware of what is and isn't legal in this current situation. and I don't recall stating I was pissed off, if anything I enjoy the back and forth as it gives me a chance to flex my debating skills. How many times have you had your lawyer go over the contract with you? If you are so concerned about these issues, then maybe you should retain one and spend the time to realize that in this particular instance, the suit would be futile.

I mean, anyone who's life income is dependent upon this game to survive would be foolish not to employ the services of a lawyer to make sure their investments are protected.

Furthermore if i am guilty of defending anyone I guess I am guilty of defending the Lindens for exercising their right to do whatever the hell they like because that's how it's written in the Terms of Service. I know what it says, I agreed to it as all of you did and even though I might wanna reach through the monitor on occasion and drag one of them out for a harsh talking to, that's my choice and I made it when I agreed to the ToS and everytime I log back in I am reaffirming my agreement to follow the rules as they are set forth, no matter how much they piss me off. I choose to do that because for the most part my experience is enjoyable, even if it's subject to drastic changes from day to day or even minute to minute.

Basically it's time to accept your fate and if you really wanna make changes to the system then there are ways to go about it but a lawsuit will no doubt fall flat on it's face. If you are one of those people who's life depends on your Second Life income then you should have your lawyer contact Linden Labs lawyers and negotiate some sort of contract that entitles you to whatever you think you are entitled to.

Last Post on my way to bed

Bambee...you are hired!

It basically sounds to me like you are stating that simply because you have played Second Life longer than I have then everything I have to say is complete nonsense. When in fact your time in the game has no bearing on what is and isn't legal in any case at all. You are still subject to the same rules and policies I am subject to even if you have been here forever.

And it's worth noting that everytime your faulty arguments are brought into question you choose to call me names and attempt to degrade me which is a completely ignorant thing to be doing in an intelligent debate of any sort.

No thanks I'll pass. I already have a nice job offer on the table doing what I love, which is Graphic Arts. you sleep well sweetie. XX

You didn't go to the authorities on the 120k. You didn't seek legal help. That is the thing. If a LL does something here that isn't legal, unless someone makes a stink in the media OR takes LL to court, LL is the sole arbitor. They told you SOL. If you'd gotten a lawyer or filed a police report on the hack, you MIGHT have had a different result. Again, though, you'd probably spend years and far more money on getting your justice than 120k when converted from Lindens to US dollars. That doesn't mean you wouldn't have a case if you were willing to use your own funds with little hope of recouping them, to take the hacker, and possibly LL, to court.

Actually, as much of a tragedy as this is... section 1.4 of the Terms of Service makes it clear that this wouldn't have helped either....



Once you convert your US dollars into Lindens, they are no longer of any value whatsoever. As is stated in plain English in the Terms of service.

We should get together in RL and hold a meeting for next steps. Maybe they will loan us a conference room at Linden Lab headquarters.

We can pay for all the airline tickets with Lindens.

Great thread guys! And, awww, people have been SO cynical about the OP's plight.

For those wishing to donate to the cause, Ginko Legal Services is now open and ready to take your donations.

And when we say "no win, no fee" we really mean it !

you may want to read the terms of service carefully, I am pretty sure that it removes them from all collateral damages.

If I had a $1.00 for everytime somebody wants to sue Linden Labs

....you could afford to sue Linden Lab

I haven't seen any stabbing in the back. A lot of laughing in his face, but then he brought that on himself.

Really, there was no flaming, until your post.

You may well be right, but the terms of service is not the be all and end all in this or any other platform or business.

laughs........................trolling remark. You need to start problems. Didnt say anything to you...........oh well wlecome to mute.................have a nice day

they could say for a new set of servers

Perhaps they will have their lawyers come in and give them legal advice and help them file legal documents too! Do you think it would be asking too much for Philip's secretary to get them all some coffee while they chat?

Hmmmmmmmmm....

The day I read the announcement on the blog about the change in land prices - I was pretty pissed. I had considered my islands as "assets", and saw their market value drop by about 40% in one day. I have been considering winding down my land business, and was counting on a decent return on selling the islands off to make it worthwhile. So, yeah, I was seething at first.

Since then, I have thought about it, and wanted to make a few points, on both sides of the discussion:

1. Islands weren't always $1,675. The first islands I bought were $1,250 - so on those ones, the "value" has only dropped $250. And I seem to remember a HUGE hue and cry when the prices were raised. Prior to that, i believe islands were $600.

2. The overall effect of the change is a lot less than it at first appears. If you consider buying and island and keeping it for 2 years - the total cost to you would have been $1675 + (24x$295) = $8,755. At the new prices, it is $1,000 + (24x$295) = $8,080. A difference of less than 8% over that time. If you consider the profit that landowners make from a sim - say $100 per month - that remains TOTALLY UNCHANGED. Rent and tier levels on estates are tied to monthly tier levels, not initial purchase price.

3. The expected rush of people buying their own islands and leaving other peoples' estates, at least so far, hasn't happened. On my islands, the last few days have been some of the best ever for land rentals, and I make a point of telling prospective renters about the new land prices before they take the land, if at all possible.

4. Talk of a class action suit against LL is patently ridiculous. It is true that just because the ToS says something, doesn't make it legal. For example, you could sign a ToS that explicitly states that at some point, due to unforeseen circumstance, you may have to be killed - that doesn't make it legal to kill you! But it's not a ToS issue - islands are NOT tangible assets - and the initial purchase price of the sim is more like a setup fee than the purchase of the server - LL is very clear about that and it seems reasonable to me. If LL set things up so that you bought a server from them , even then it would be ridiculous to complain. The fact is that the cost of servers is less than it used to be - so LL can make the same profit from selling islands at $1,000 as they did at $1,675 in all likelihood. When you "buy" an island - ALL you are buying is the right to have license to use the server space to hold a sim, at the agreed upon monthly fee.

5. Estate owners, at least the ones that know what they are doing, are not hurt by this very much, for two reasons. first, because the profit they make from their islands should stay about the same. and second, because it will now be easier than ever to expand with more islands - and the profit levels INCREASE. If you make $100 per month island on a sim that cost $1,675 - that is about 6%. On a sim that cost $1,000, it's 10%. PER MONTH! I am not crying for myself - at least after the initial spinal reaction to the blog post.

6. You mark my words, and take notes. Some of the people that are complaining about the price drop this month, will be the same ones who complain if and when the prices go back up again in the future. IF gambling were legal, I would bet on it. The price point that Linden labs is setting is probably based on a simple optimization model - they estimate how many people will buy at different prices, and calculate the total profit under every scenario. Whichever price yields the highest net income - bingo - that's the one they choose. To me, this just seems... kinda smart. It's called capitalism.

7. For most people, this is a good thing. I have a number of renters that would probably like to have their own island, but can't raise $1,675 - even though over time, they end up paying more by renting. Maybe at $1,000, they can swing it. more power to them, and I will do whatever I can to help them. the vast majority of people will still never be able to afford an island - remember that the difference over two years from point 2?

So, in the end, my initial surprise and irritation has already faded - I am not angry at Linden labs - my islands continue to be full and profitable, and the only tangible difference is that I probably won't cash out and leave the land biz just yet. Which I was on the fence about anyway. the sky is not falling. The land barons are safe - just a little grumpy.

dd

They haven't activated the price drop yet.

i need to start looking at my logs on all my things in my inventory and see what i paid for them 6 months ago and see which ones have had the prices dropped so i can go back to all the designers and ask for the difference..
i wonder how many would actually give it back to me lol

Yes, I know. But most people that can now afford an island would probably hold off for a week on renting once they knew about the drop, was my thinking...

[Edited to add] don't forget - setting up land takes a lot of effort - if people knew they were going to get an island - they wouldn't spend the time and effort to set up their land for a few weeks until their island was delivered.

dd

Why ask? Just sue their asses.

Good point. I agree that there won't be a mass exodus from current sims. Partly because once again LL has undermined resident confidence. I sure as heck am not buying a Island anytime soon.

You could go to law school