Lindens can we stop this nonsense soon please....

Yerp - hence why I'm not going top bother responding to him anymore myself. I don't enjoy having a one sided debate .... least of all this bloody early in the morning.

Most people are welcome to overfly my little piece of SL ..... I just ask that nothing be left behind from the trip and that those who are simply trying to get from point A to point B fly by at the equivalent of low Earth orbit ..... I'm on a laptop at the moment and don't want the sudden lag spike caused by needing to render a vehicle going by overhead.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I disagree. RL comparisons shed light. They're not the end of the story, nor are they useless.

In RL, a pilot cannot demand passage either. Pilots need to file flight plans, and are not allowed to simply fly anywhere (mostly they are not allowed to fly low except where absolutely neccessary, i.e. near airports taking off and landing.

Military bases have restricted airspaces, and likely some other areas too.

It is true that we do not sit on top of our RL houses with anti-aircraft weapons, but we have air traffic control for that.

The analogy is limited in that the biggest RL consideration is safety rather than privacy, but helecopters are not normally allowed to just hover watching people's houses either, so privacy is presumably a consideration in what is acceptable.

The point of analogies is to illuminate. Analogies aren't proof, but they *are* useful.

In the absence of overwhelming safety or security reasons, there are few restrictions on flight over private land, not because of any "it's real life" magic, but because there is no compelling interest that a private landowner has to prevent overflight. You can't buzz people or livestock (Causby got that much) and you can't overfly military bases or airfields, but for private aviation the main reason you need to file a flight plan so that if something goes wrong people know here to look for you.

Rights are not based on RL magic, or SL magic, they're based on balancing competing interests. They're rarely absolute. You can fill your parcel from 0 to 4096 meters with hollow megaprims or weapons systems and keep pilots out that way, yes, but you can't flip a switch in the parcel settings and generate that barrier for free. Because there is no compelling reason that you should be able to, and because there is a substantial impact on other legitimate interests if you could.

I'm happy to let go the notion that virtual real estate plays by virtual rules if virtual objects also did: Let's not go halfway with this. Of course, that would upset the noisiest of content "creators" here, so we couldn't have that now, could we?

My understanding is that in most cases, flights made under VFR rules do not require any flight plan at all (though filing one is still encouraged), and that yes, if you're operating under VFR, you can fly pretty much anywhere you're not explicitly restricted from flying. Otherwise, how would we get aerial comedy every time there's a car chase in LA as every TV station with a chopper in a 50 mile range tries to cover it? Something tells me they're not letting the news stations know in advance where they're going...



Not that there's anything or anyone stopping them from taking pictures of your entire property as they fly over. A good example of this would be if you look at the "satellite" view of Portland, Oregon on Google Maps. The high-res imagery they use is from the Metro Regional Government, which took the pictures from relatively low-altitude in a fixed-wing aircraft.

Anyway we had the ban line debate and I think in general its clear people want to see the back of ban lines and security devices which indiscriminately attack travellers...

What about the ludicrous events crossing a regional boundary though...

Today out for a drive at a slow pace in my vintage bentley ( a real beauty).... slow until we hit a regional boundary and the car suddenly began an aeronautic display which chitty chitty bang bang would have envied....

Ultimately we were thrown from the car and I was paralysed... I had to log out.

Now this problem is durable, long standing and effects anyone...vehicle driving or not...

and yet...

while we hear about lindens tackling this issue or that issue very vociferously we never ever hear about any work on stabilising the very simple act of moving through sl. Is anything at all being done to tackled this or not ?

By the way lindens can you possibly come up with a 'simple' method of allowing people who live adjacent to roads to rez vehicles on them and install decorative or interesting roadside features such as lamposts... I had to wait ages to get a response to a request to fit a pedestrian crossing merely as a feature of scenic interest... and in the end a linden came and fitted a very weathered zebra crossing - without adjusting the position of the crossing lights and vanished before I could discuss it with him further....

Coincidentally, just this morning I pitched the related jira, SVC-22 (prim limits at border crossings), at Babbage's office hour (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2009_04_22#chat131) with the result of linking that problem's resolution as a prerequisite to the script memory limit stuff. (This is far from the only problem that occurs at sim border crossings, but it's one that almost always leads to disaster.)

What Argent said in #319. In the words of Kelly Linden the problem is:

"Yeah that is a known bug. It is a race condition that I was never able to fully track down. The problem is the vehicle gets serialized over to the other region before the rider, so there is some short time when it isn't a "vehicle" and if the wrong check happens then things go badly. It actually doesn't happen 100%, although it has been a long time since I looked into it, so maybe it is 100% or close enough now."

Argent and Kelly know what the solution is. Unfortunately for vehicle enthusiasts, Kelly has also mentioned that other work has been given priority even though the personal preference is to work on fixing this.

Please vote for the JIRA here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
and this one: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-472

And maybe the priority can be upgraded.

The problem affects people differently and is not the same at every boundary... at some the effects are much more intense...

several times Ive been ejected from vehicles and 'spin in space' for several minutes.

If Im lucky I snap back into place , if Im slightly less unlucky I loose my vehicle and my explorations are spoiled - this has happened in flying vehicles, boats and cars.'

Today I was frozen and logging out was the only alternative I could see after several abortive attempts at trying to get my avvy moving again.

For some reason although my gf was subject to the same ejection she wasnt immobilised and could carry on in sl.

What annoys me is all this nonsense to restrict adult material and 'tidy up' and yet issues like the basic ability to move freely around sl without these inconveniences dont appear to recieve any attention .

Several thousand have viewed this thread and responded to all the issues I raised...but not one comment from Lindens at all....

Doesnt happen 100 % !!! Its close enough everytime I cross a boundary. Perhaps people are so use to it happening they dont even bother now. Lets face it it's become such a joke there are even warning signs about the sim crossing in some places. !!

Doubtful you will. They almost never respond directly to these threads.

And its been happening for the two years Ive been in sl without improvement !! It was a known problem when I joined two years ago.

I guess the issue of basic movement around sl is just not high enough on lindens agenda...or at least I dont see any signs of it being.

Yes one of my biggest complaints about sl is actually getting any response 'direct from the horses mouth'

Seems like you are not the only one feeling that way. Have you checked out the Concierge Group thread? Looks like they don't get much info from LL either.

Not only warning signs. Some roads have barriers erected across them as well to physically prevent you from driving your car blissfully into the Chasm.

Blissfully slipping into the chasm ?? are you allowed to do that outside the adult continent now ?

As long as you got tint windows on your car then I think you be ok =p

Ahem ...

It's been going on for nearly three years or more by now Maelstrom: truth be told, if the sim crossing issues happen to you more often than 25 to 50% of the time .... then there is something else going on.

There are simply too many factors that affect a sim crossing that it just isn't funny.

Usually it takes time for enough people to speak up, and for them to generate a response that satisfies as many related questions as possible. Give it time.

Personally, I hope LR moves to opensimulator at some point once it gets feature-complete, since one thing opensimulator does really, really well is seamless sim handoffs.

Second Life did seamless sim handoffs really well for a long time. When someone's running OpenSim with thousands of regions and tens of thousands of concurrent users, THEN you can start talking about how well OpenSim works.

Opensim sims are aware of who is within about half a sim of them, the handoff happens sooner (you're just on the outer region of the adjacent two regions you're nearest). SL sims don't even start handing off until you actually hit the edge of the sim you're leaving. Unless the way OS is handling avatars on outers uses far more resources than I assume, I'm pretty sure OpenSim's got this problem solved already.

handoffs being the technical term for the shift between regions ?

If so what went wrong ??

Agreed!

But they also give me a nice target to pester someone when I feel like it.

Asset server overload, increased latency between separate colo hubs, changes to prevent temp rez abuse, increasing inter-sim network traffic... a combination of policy changes and scaling issues.