Lindens can we stop this nonsense soon please....

I said three minutes being generous..

You have to remember sable some parcels of land are huge and its a task detouring especially when you cant see the boundaries and remember sable Im paying to enjoy sl as you are.

My preference is to fly where I want when I want and as I admit access to my land to all but the worst trouble makers I have absolutely no qualms or feelings of selfishness whatsoever.

I'd say put all the chris norse ban line lovers on a continent and see how long they all enjoy being restricted to their own parcels of land.

Give those who want to be hemmed in the chance to be hemmed in... after all if you want to restrict other peoples access to sl why shouldn't you be restricted to ??

Believe this Rime, I am sable not anyone else.

I'm going to add him too, not that people usually just 'happen' upon my sim, a non profit sim geared to deaf and disabled but just in case, lol. After I get inworld later today he'll be free to fly/hover/land on my sim as he pleases, simply because he's so passionate about it and because it's more important to him than it is to me to block it. But not just in general. One thing I've found noobs love to do is to rez and pilot all kinds of vehicles, with no idea at all what they're doing. So in general, I'll leave it at 30 secs but be more sensitive to those who actually do appear to know what they're doing and are just trying to have a nice flying experience.

Originally Posted by Maelstrom Janus
You asked how much time I wanted - I told you. I was being generous.

Try piloting some vehicles especially big ones ....

and while we're at it - Whats a 'white list' ??



I think the phrase you're all missing is 'I was being generous'. This indicates to me that he isn't implying he needs 3 minutes in reality - but sometimes a little more than 15 seconds.
And as for being able to manoeuvre any vehicle through a parcel in 15 seconds - try flying a balloon! It can move quite speedily but not the quickest to change direction.

I take it SL is not a Live and Let Live society - I've said it before - I'll say it again. We don't all want to invade your personal space, we just want to be able to enjoy SL the same as everyone else.

You cant see land lines from on high by just turning on 'View Property Lines'?

depends how high you are ....and the lines are not the most apparent or best markers in the sl world either....

They have 30 seconds to move. Just like when my access is restricted I have a certain time to move. Like Treasure said, I will add you because you seem to be very passionate about it.

Now this all I'm going to say on the subject. Good luck on with your journeys and you are cordially invited to Sacred Heart Isle. Just wait till tomorrow so I can add you.

If I'm there I would love to give you a tour of my home.

Have a bless day!

I bet if either you or sable asked, he would be more then happy to give you a ride in one of his balloons. I have finished working out the controls in my single seater and haven't built a bigger one yet, or I would be more then happy to invite you along. All I can say is that it adds a whole nother dimension to SL. The cozyness of chatting with friends at the house, with the wonder of seeing new sights all at the same time. It is extremely relaxing.

Sable - when you see these blue boxes asking you to move - you do just that. If I see 15 seconds, I will automatically try to find a different route rather than just go in a straight line - this is out of respect for the landowner. You want me off your land - I will get off your land. If I see a reasonable amount of time, then I will just pass through without disturbing anyone

Out of curiosity and this is an honest question. Who do you think is the majority? People like you, honestly doing what you do, and knowing/understanding/having a clue of what is going on around you, or noobs who are just rezzing freebies/flying things with absolutely no clue at all? Crashing vehicles into lakes/bodies of water just because they can, to see if it will float or because they are clueless as to how to pilot the thing, whtever the thing may be. Just causing mayhem, either on purpose or just behing clueless. Really now, do you think 'you' are the majority, or 'them'? Cause from what I've seen.......I've rarely seen many like you. but seen a whole bunch of them.

I dont like it and i still say people cant read..and if u cant move fast enough for a 30sec warning not MY problem if ur trying you fly over any plot. and if YOU dont like the orbs go b*tch at the estate owner(s) cause thats what they tell us we CAN use.

/me goes and looks to purchase a SAM system to shoot down any planes

Ok, I was wrong that that was my last posting. When I purchased the orb the last thing I was thinking was aviators or boaters. Which neither I have a problem with. Cully it wouldn't bother me at all if you were flying overhead nor anyone else. Just im inworld and let me know and I can add you to the orb.

Jesse, I love riding in balloons. My husband has one of those Captain Nemo type spaceships. So I certainly understand and respect the challenges aviators face.

My beef is with the uninvited people trying to get inside my house. Not with anyone else.

Even if they fix the walls so no one can cam inside that doesn't stop people from getting inside. They can do the cam/sit invasion.

Prime example, I forgot to turn the orb off. My husband and I had been working all day on the sim and we gone out for a dance or two. We have home set to our bedroom. We decided it was time to log off. As a ritual, we hop in our jammies and get in the bed. Well when we got there, someone was rollerblading in our upstairs hallway. See stuff like that, I don't appreciate.

When we are at home, we speak in open chat often about personal stuff in rl, amongst other things. I don't care for strangers to hear personal things about us nor observe us.

where can I get dictionary bombs to drop on illiterate orb owners......

Prolly can get it from the same place you can get a book for "people who dont wanna respect land owner/renters rights of not wanting people to fly over or come onto the land they own/rent".

I would think that most estate sims would have very little vehicle traffic anyway. Those that permit banlines would see no land nor water vehicles, and those that don't regulate security orbs would get no flying vehicles. There are really only a few estates large enough and interesting enough for vehicle owners to want to explore anyway--seen one palm tree-infested tropical island you've pretty much seen them all. Of the exceptions worth visiting, most are vehicle-friendly by disallowing banlines and strictly regulating security orbs.

So I think this is predominantly a Mainland topic.

I don't see your name on the voters for http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-205

you should be banned from every parcel in sl as you clearly think so much about other peoples rights not to let you on their land .....

no i respect a home owners right and dont show up on the land they own/rent unannouced

that must make it difficult if you ever decide to fly from a to b and have to pass over twenty different parcels owned by different people...drop em a calling card before you move over their land do you ???

That's a distinction with little or no impact on whether Causby makes a good analogy. It doesn't matter if you are talking about the current 50m or 250m or 500m or infinity which is why I also mentioned impeding access with security devices. Note that the events that Maelstrom mentions occur at 250m (in his initial post) and 500m (in his Tardis in a later post)

This is why I specifically mentioned the use of security orbs because they can and do impede air travel through other people's land at heights well above the limit of banlines. It hasn't destroyed air travel and even if the number of people who use security devices at high altitudes increased exponentially to match the number of people who used banlines it still wouldn't "destroy" the entertainment value of air travel. It would severely undermine it, relegating it to areas where there is contiguous ownership of land where visitors are welcome. That's not even the main point however, which you've continously chosen to ignore or just don't understand. So to reiterate:

If you insist that Causby is a useful analogy you must establish that the interest serves the greater good of the entire SL community over the rights of a few. You haven't established this. All you have established thus far is that there are is an undetermined percentage of SL residents that place a value (and you have not even established the priority of that value) on unrestricted air travel everywhere for entertainment value and then made a presumption that that interest is more compelling than the interest of all SL residents that own land to restrict passage at any height (which they already can do) through the use of banlines. As I said before that begs the question as to whether it even fits into the Causby test.

The Causby test is a poor metric for whether people should be able to have banlines to any height. A better test would be to weigh what the actual value of that function would be to SL residents versus the actual scope of the undermining effect it would have over air travel for entertainment, regardless of the size of the competing interest groups, but that's simply not analagous to the one used in Causby.

flying over someones land and dropping in on someones land are different issues...if flying over im not gonna stop and bitch if they have a security device working i would keep going and same goes if i happen to drop in on someones land unannouced i wont stop and bitch and whine about a device i would just leave

how are you respecting a persons right not to have you fly over their land if you 'keep going' - youre contradicting yourself.....

and I never whine about anyones device... I leave too...if I get the chance and Im not crashed out which is a different thing altogether.

Basically you want the right to go where you want - but block everyone from your land ...if you thought for a moment youd see how useless sl would be if everyone blocked their land off like you do.

Of course it does.

The quote I used is all about the idea that property rights, the right to exclude access, stretch to infinity. I'm using that to illustrate the point that having the right and ability to exclude access to fliers from ground level to the limits of the atmosphere is, in both situations, a truly bad idea.

Everything else you're bringing up is irrelevant, because it's not part of the analogy I'm drawing.

I sail, I drive my motorcycle around the grid and have recently acquired a flying vehicle. Banlines are the evil. you hang up on 'em and all you can do is unsit and fall/sink then hope you can get your vehicle back. Plus they are fugly.

Therefore I dont use banlines, I use a security system.

BUT

The one I use is capable of defining an arbitrary polygon for its protected area. Any shape you like, just mark all the corners and define a min/max height range. Only thing it wont do is curves.This means I NEVER need to have any of its active zone extending beyond places that folks can walk/fly/ride/whatever into without hitting a wall, digging up through a floor or breaking in the roof. If anyone unwelcome is in there, they had to make an effort to do so and they got it coming. It scans at REASONABLE intervals and gives enough time to get out. If any aviator/sailor/hiker/driver got hassled by it, I'd hope they would let me know so I can track down the error in my configs. Setting it any other way would be the kind of griefing our friendly neighborhood ferret justly complains of.






PS: Its the Triple Labs Gridwide System - shameless plug for a VERY well coded piece of kit.