Club experience annoyed me enough to post

Well, no, not EVERYONE is saying that. That's why we have this thread in the first place. Someone went over and harassed the OP simply because she was "short", making the assumption that she was a child av, even though she was still average height for a human adult.



Any RL doorman for an adult club worth his salt looks over EVERYONE that tries to come through the door. Being short won't draw any more attention than having peach fuzz and pimples.

I also didn't say anything like "somebody 4-3 doesn't even get looked at". Where did you get that from? O.o







Apologies, in the context it appeared you were trying to contradict/detract, rather than augment/support.

I meant people here in this thread.

I think you're wrong. Everybody may indeed get looked at but the more departures from the norm that add up, the more likely a person is to get a 2nd look.

From you claiming your aunt never gets carded. You seem to be saying that height isn't a factor, one of several, that goes into guessing somebody's age.

Except they're not. What ticked me off in this thread was the statement that someone a foot or so shorter than everyone else MUST have a statement of age in their profile not to get banned... even if "everyone else" was 7-8' tall. Oh, here it is:


Edit: I see Talarus noticed this comment as well.

Then you need to reread what she said, this time without assuming Sindy's the enemy.

My usual avatar is a bit over seven feet tall. (I am, however, normally proportioned.) In the social circles I move in in SL, I am "the big guy"; that is, it's no less intentional than other people's fur or boobs. On the occasions when I've reduced my height, my friends complained of not being able to recognize me by my appearance (having one's name floating over one's head does help). We did a survey in our social group of perceived height (which we used to set dimensions for shared builds), and by the ruler that came out of that I'm 6' 2". Which is how I tend to perceive myself in SL.

That said, if I run into a 5' 6" avatar (who I'd perceive as being about 5'), I'm not going to assume it's supposed to be a child unless it's dressed, proportioned, and/or behaving like one. If it's got boobies bigger than its head I may not think it's a *human* avatar, but not a child. The people I bounce from my land are the steroidal mutants who put a RL age below 18 in their first life tab (and it happens), not people who are shorter than me -- almost everyone is.

I've reread it multiple times as this discussion progressed and I still do not read it as saying anything other than: if you are a foot less than "everyone else" you're assumed to be a kid avatar.

Read it again. I asked for a source, a source here in this thread, for somebody advocating tossing people based soley on their height.

It may tick you off but Sindy's got every right to request that people who look like they could be under 18 to put something in their profile to say they are adult.

Of course she's got every right to toss people under any circumstances she wants, it's her parcel. That doesn't change the fact that she's saying that she will toss people solely on the basis of height. No "putting a disclaimer in your profile" doesn't change the fact that her concern is purely height, not whether they "look like they could be under 18". She has a perfect right to be just as crazy as she wants, but that just means she has the right to be a crank, not that she's not one.

Right. Well, except for the bit where that's not what she said.


You're assuming that height is the only thing she's looking at. That or just totally ignoring this other post from her:

I didn't catch her qualifying it, sorry.

Is that your proportion kit at forum cartel?

I sent a bunch of people chatting in NCI there the other day to grab copies of that.

Why isn't it available in places like Free Dove, NCI, Freebie Dungeon, and the assorted 'free stuff' vendors on newbie islands?
- If you can, you ought to put it up there.

Make it an xstreet freebie too.

I think people get distorted expectations of proper height in SL because the freebies are all frankenbarbies...

That kit could do SL a lot of good, but its too obscure.

The kit was made by Vaelissa Cortes. I just became fed up with the height ignorance in SL and decided to re-release it with her permission.

Right now she is working on the final version of it.

It did used to be on Xstreet. Once it is completed it will be placed at all the freebie newbie places we can find.

Started out in SL at my actual height but didn't like the feeling of being towered over, since I am usually not towered over in RL. So I went with a shape that came with a Wonder Woman costume. Lol.

Over time I made my own shape, at first equally tall, then tweaked it over time. More thin (less hourglass), less thin very full and curvy (not barbie-ish just lush), then athletic and full bodied (sounds like wine), then a bit more compact, then shorter too.

At this point the av is just more average in many respects - size, shape, height. But still tall, if translated to RL terms.

Thing is, height is relative, in RL and in SL I think. So, I am about average to tall height in both now.

And I think that IS true in RL about height being relative, because just think if our 5'10" (or even 5'5" women went back to colonial times when the average woman was probably 5'.

If a guy wants to pixel-grind with me, he's going to have to have a normal height. The few Frankenbarbies I've been with and continue to socialize with are people I've known since the days when my lag was so bad everyone was a gray box anyway...


I'd rather go with a furry than a Frankenbarbie / Frankenstein. Giants are just very unappealing. My avatar is taller than my RL self, and yet in SL she's below boob height on most of them - yet I never get called short in RL.

Nooooooo.....

Finish it now!

Newbies are joining everyday and getting lost to the darkness of Frankenbarbism.



Must... save... the... innocent... newbies...

Or possibly make a lot of saner-proportioned, freebie, no mod shapes and hand them out en masse.

When I first started SL 3 weeks ago, I was surprised to see how many of the men were bulky and tall. So many muscle-builders. Heh. I do not like the feeling of being towered over. I was astounded, when a woman was helping me at Vista animations, to be told that in heels my av is the equivalent of 6'4" tall, which, I'm told, is "too tall" for the animations to work just right (for instance a hand to the waist will not fall at just the right spot on a woman who is too tall). Their expensive "Perfect Lady" AO comes, I was told, in 3 flavors, short, medium, and tall. I didn't buy it so can't report on it.

Afterwards I felt weird about being that tall for a few days, but I noticed more and more that even a number of women towered over me. I decided that I was in the land of the giants, and I have no intention of being any shorter than I am. I agree with those who say that "normal" in this case is both relative and context-dependent.

If we are to be the same height in SL as in RL, then I say we have to have the same measurements as well. Let's see how THAT idea flies.

Oh. Hmm. Ok. So like...An Avatar Kiosk, where one can peruse several "generic RL heighted" shapes for male and female and then select it and have it sent to them... Wow, and they can even come with an Eloh or Sezmra skin option that comes with the selected shape...a basic avatar package. Hmm. Male skins would be needed to supplant the top 3 male newbie skins (Michael, and others) that ALL new guys seem to use for YEARS, and unfortunately look like clones wearing

Oh my. I think i may have another project.

Thank you Clarissa!

Ooh, an army of no-mod clones. How delightful.

I think I'm going to shuffle project plans myself and put out some free shapes in the next few days if I can.

Yes yes yes!

And you're welcome.

Heh heh. Good one.

I did at some point carefully set my av height to my real world height.

I did NOT set the other measurements accurately. What a terrible idea!

We would never make the shapes no-mod. That goes against everything i believe in.

I really never believed in buying shapes either. But now it is the norm so..

I have always felt that the avatar is a reflection of ones inner-self - but that seems to be changing.

My only reason for saying no mod is so they can't turn around and make it 8 feet tall.

As for 'clones' well the Frankenavs are already an army of clones and no one gave them those avs they probably made them. Or stretched the freebie ones or gave it bigger shoulders or bust.

Also the Noob Shapes we all rez with are clones as well.

Most people once they settle in and look around will want a new shape anyway.

Yes, it does lead to some people fearing the worst and getting a bit on the crazy side with the rules. SL is such a diverse place that each land owner really has to decide what's right for thier land. Since I have a very-adult place and can think of no (non-creepy) reason why a kid would be there, I just say "adults only" and strictly enforce that.


I hope I've never even implied that I'm in that camp. The few SL kid avatars I've met in my travels tend to be pretty cool folks and I have nothing against them at all. Just keep off my lawn, you damn kids!



/me would like to thank all the other people here for taking what I said out of context, putting words in my mouth and assuming that I was being a jerk in your rabid defense against people making assumptions and being jerks. You are dicks.

For the record:

I have never banned anybody for being short.

In my +2 years of owning my place, I think I have banned a grand total of 2 people for being underage avatars. Both were ones that were very obviously child avatars, both were ones that I had warned before, both were ones that I was sure understood that my place was strictly adults-only. Both also got ARed.

I have banned plenty of people who look like they could EASILY pass for under-18 if they chose to RP that way then gave me crap when I asked nicely if they could put a "short but adult!" or something similar in their profile. People can look like whatever they want in SL - if they *CHOOSE* to look on the young side of borderline, that's fine with me but they need to make it clear they're adult if they want to be at my place. If they give me a hard time about this, they will be leaving fairly quickly.

I do look at everybody I see come into my place. How I react depends on how they look and act, what their profile says and if I decide I need to ask them about how old they are trying to look, how they react to that.

To argue that being far shorter than everybody else factors ZERO into guessing how old somebody is trying to look is just stupid. Really - don't go there because it hurts any more-reasonable argument you might have.

From my rules/FAQ notecard: