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SL Sex, Lies, and Mind Games |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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12-10-2009 09:27
Does anyone take it seriously enough to challenge? Well, it seems to be the basic philosophical underpinning for the views of one particular well-known poster here. But, yes, you are right. It's probably not generally worth much more than a mildly scornful roll of the eyes. _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 09:28
thought it was time to throw in a few more comments to balance up the ravings of his testosterone-impaired brain. I assumed no such thing. Neither, I suspect, was Lindal. I was asserting, quite clearly, that the ONLY area in which men can, generally, claim superior strength is in the realm of the physical. Your implication that they also have superior mental abilities is nonsense, and the suggestion that they possess greater "strength of character" purely subjective. And maybe even emotional? I am going to assume that you meant "'trust' a 'female' in SL to be a female," or perhaps "'trust' a 'female' to be a 'female' in RL," as the statement makes absolutely no sense as it stands. Actually, even with the necessary correction, it still makes no sense: why are women less to be trusted because MEN are impersonating them? A great many of the "lesbians" of whom you speak are, of course, males masquerading as "lesbians," in order to enjoy a pornographic parody of a REAL lesbian liaison. Which would seem to suggest that it is men who are having the difficult time dealing with opposite-sex relationships, probably because of a lingering infantilism and Freudian Oedipal Complexes. This is the more ironic, as it is likely that they are coupling in their Vivid Video-inspired fantasy with another male, who is seeking same. RL women who are lesbian in SL are so because they are lesbian in real life, or are "experimenting" with sides of their sexuality that may not get expression in RL. No one is running "away" from men: they are running TO women. Incidentally, you finish this point with an entirely gratuitous and unnecessarily nasty potshot. If you can't argue without taking cheap personal shots, then maybe you DO belong on SC II. And speaking of entirely gratuitous and unnecessarily nasty potshots . . . You can "anticipate" whatever you want about my in-world behaviour, but as you've never met me in-world, your speculations aren't worth a great deal. I have never had my "strength of character" doubted where it counted, in world or in RL. Nor do I prize the emotional disconnect that you seem to equate with "strength." Emotions are part of what we are: they are PART of my strength and my passion. They are a primary reason why I engage in what you insultingly term "hysterical activism," a field in which I believe my "strength of character" is more than evident. It is more than a "necessary belief": the proof that men are every bit as prone to cultural pressures as women is historical. Or, if you prefer a synchronic example, we need only consider the prevalence in advertising for men of busty brainless Barbie dolls, living proof of the fact that, whatever else may be responsible for determining male purchasing preferences, it isn't their brain. In my darker, more despairing moments -- such as those usually initiated by reading one of your more knuckle-dragging posts -- I do sometimes conclude that you are correct. Pep (Keep trying; you girlies have come a long way in a century or so - but wait to vacuum the carpet until half-time please, or I'll get annoyed.) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Riseon Kosten
*Rizzy*
Join date: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 305
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12-10-2009 09:30
Since most things I would have said in this thread have been addressed already, I have just two to add. The 'females are more emotional' opinion goes unchallenged almost anytime it comes up. In my own household, I'm far less likely to respond to a situation with either tears or anger, or for that matter, elation, than my husband. By which emotions are we measuring this and where is the data coming from? The second was something about women striving to be equal. I know far too many women who do strive for that and I wish they understood that they're trying to get in a chair that they're already sitting in. We were born equal. I can't control whether anyone else accepts that and I don't try to. I do insist on whatever respect, salary, protection of law, etc. that I'm due as a person in any given situation and I don't measure that by my gender. The real question to me is why are emotional males often called 'in touch with their feminine side'? Who's rule is it that to express emotions, men must be acting feminine? I feel sorry for men in that situation, when really, it's just like any other trait someone of either gender can express. Sexual oppression, and social stigmas are to blame in my humble opinion. _____________________
I enjoy the infinitely precious gift of meeting someone's mind, as represented by their avatar. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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12-10-2009 09:34
The real question to me is why are emotional males often called 'in touch with their feminine side'? Who's rule is it that to express emotions, men must be acting feminine? I feel sorry for men in that situation, when really, it's just like any other trait someone of either gender can express. Sexual oppression, and social stigmas are to blame in my humble opinion. I think you are absolutely right, Ris. And this is precisely the sort of thing that I meant when I suggested earlier that men are also victimized by culturally-induced gender roles. _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 09:36
The 'females are more emotional' opinion goes unchallenged almost anytime it comes up. In my own household, I'm far less likely to respond to a situation with either tears or anger, or for that matter, elation, than my husband. We were born equal. I can't control whether anyone else accepts that and I don't try to. I do insist on whatever respect, salary, protection of law, etc. that I'm due as a person in any given situation and I don't measure that by my gender. Pep (More emotional arguments, eh?) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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12-10-2009 09:39
I think you are absolutely right, Ris. And this is precisely the sort of thing that I meant when I suggested earlier that men are also victimized by culturally-induced gender roles. I am man enough to admit that I cry. I am also a big enough boy to bust the head of anyone who doesn't like it. So I choose to not be a victim.  _____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart “Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind” Douglas MacArthur FULL |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 09:39
Well, it seems to be the basic philosophical underpinning for the views of one particular well-known poster here. But, yes, you are right. It's probably not generally worth much more than a mildly scornful roll of the eyes. Pep (Can't remember the last time he saw a non-foreign male cry.) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 09:41
The real question to me is why are emotional males often called 'in touch with their feminine side'? Who's rule is it that to express emotions, men must be acting feminine? I feel sorry for men in that situation, when really, it's just like any other trait someone of either gender can express. Sexual oppression, and social stigmas are to blame in my humble opinion. Pep (It's allowing your rational judgment to be affected by emotion that is the problem.) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Riseon Kosten
*Rizzy*
Join date: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 305
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12-10-2009 09:46
Expressing emotion is fine, whatever your gender. Pep (It's allowing your rational judgment to be affected by emotion that is the problem.) /me chips away at the door to Pep's feminine side, which she *KNOWS* is in there somewhere... ^_^ *POKE* *POKE* C'mon! Let's get emotional! _____________________
I enjoy the infinitely precious gift of meeting someone's mind, as represented by their avatar. |
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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12-10-2009 09:48
a world without likable males wasn't what I was looking for. THIS! _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
http://2lf.informe.com/ |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 09:48
/me chips away at the door to Pep's feminine side, which she *KNOWS* is in there somewhere... ^_^ *POKE* *POKE* C'mon! Let's get emotional! Pep (That's the nearest you'll get.) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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12-10-2009 09:49
re: females being more emotional.... uhhhhh we are. OVERemotional, no. there is no such a thing.
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it was fun while it lasted.
http://2lf.informe.com/ |
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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12-10-2009 09:55
I rewatched Smokey and the Bandit the other day. So in honor of Pep, I will post this exchange from the movie.
Bandit: [commenting on Carrie's legs] Cowboys love fat calves. Carrie: They're not fat! Bandit: Well, they're bigger then mine. Carrie: Do we really wanna talk about legs? Bandit: Well, one of us wants to. Carrie: Smart ass. _____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart “Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind” Douglas MacArthur FULL |
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Seven Okelli
last days of pompeii
Join date: 4 Dec 2008
Posts: 2,300
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12-10-2009 10:03
Low testosterone levels may be a risk factor for cognitive decline and possibly for dementia, so since, on average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult human female body, there is a logical explanation for the irrational working of the female brain. It's a shame you can't express yourself effectively then. apparently not, and incorrectly, as is evident... But testosterone can cloud judgment. If testosterone is needed for perceiving reality, it suggests that we can't perceive reality as it is, since our perceptions would be testosterone-tinged. It's like taking a drug to clear your head. You can't tell whether the "clarity" is real. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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12-10-2009 10:07
Low testosterone levels may be a risk factor for cognitive decline and possibly for dementia, so since, on average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult human female body, there is a logical explanation for the irrational working of the female brain. This is a nice example of the use of selective evidence. As you will very well know, having found this stat on Wikipedia, it is ALSO true that: On average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult human female body, but females are, from a behavioral perspective (rather than from an anatomical or biological perspective), more sensitive to the hormone. However, the overall ranges for male and female are very wide, such that the ranges actually overlap at the low end and high end respectively. and There are some differences in a male and female brain (the result of different testosterone levels), one of them being size: the male human brain is, on average, larger; however, in females (who generally do not have as high testosterone levels) the corpus callosum is proportionally larger and women also have more dendritic connections between brain cells. This means that the effect of testosterone is a greater overall brain volume, but a decreased connection between the hemispheres. It's a shame you can't express yourself effectively then. Or rather it's a shame that you can't read more accurately. If the only evidence I had to offer was the postings of "females" in this forum, then your argument would have no substance at all, being overwhelmed by the widespread failure of "females" to make any sort of argument not underpinned by the self-referential argument that emotional arguments are valid. This is itself a self-referential argument that is founded upon an utterly subjective and unproven premise: postings by women on this forum are over-emotional because they tend to post over-emotionally on this forum. Define, in objective terms, "over emotional," and maybe we have the basis for an actual discussion. As it stands, your argument here is fluff. I am making perfect sense. Your argument that SL is a female's world is predicated upon female avatars having some kind of advantage. My argument is that "females" are, without saying a word or doing anything, less trustworthy because more of them aren't actually women. Anything further is either irrelevant or a bonus to my contention. This response might make sense if your generalizations were being applied only to female avatars. They are not: you are, drawing inferences about RL women on the basis of SL female behaviour, which is invalid in the terms of your own argument. I should also point out that a more accurate reading of my original post on this subject would confirm that I, at least, did NOT assert that SL is a female's world. I merely take issue with the suggestion that it is a man's one. /327/a3/354743/2.html#post2640221 Comeon, make up your mind which side of the argument you are taking; are you now suggesting that being a lesbian in SL is a bad thing, and men don't really enjoy the role play? Being a "lesbian" is neither a good nor a bad thing. What I am suggesting is that your generalizations about the "appeal" of lesbianism in SL are based upon a failure to differentiate between "real" lesbians here, and fake ones. Your reading of the motivations for this supposed phenomenon are badly skewed as a result. Topologically the two are equivalent. But, again, as your argument is based upon a reading of the motivations for this putative flight to the refuge of lesbian relationships, the difference between the two is very relevant indeed. So you reckon that specific and convincing evidence for my viewpoint should be suppressed because you have full and embarrassing knowledge of it? Inconvenient, eh? No, I am suggesting that it is a) subjective and unproven, and b) a deliberate argument ad hominem. Just here then, which is 100% of my experience with you. And I am quite entitled to extrapolate your likely responses by analogy with other equivalent behaviours demonstrated by those who I have observed here and their subsequent inworld responses. Yes, I suppose you are. And I am equally entitled to point out what utter nonsense it is. I'll point out the opinion of Mandy Rice-Davies in such circumstances. Well, you would, wouldn't you? The difference is that men are the ones initiating and exerting those cultural pressures. I fail to see what difference this makes, unless you are arguing that males constitute a kind of "hive mind," and that they are all collectively consenting to be led about by the dick. _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-10-2009 10:15
If Pep thinks men are the ones applying all the social pressures he's either a lifelong bachelor or his wife is a saint.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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12-10-2009 10:21
If Pep thinks men are the ones applying all the social pressures he's either a lifelong bachelor or his wife is a saint.  Actually . . . /me returns to hyper-serious mode for a moment . . . The idea that a "patriarchal society" is sustained a) only by men, and b) by ALL men, is of course wrong. Women are often as guilty of buying into the conventional norms proposed by such a society as men. And, of course, not all men buy into it either. Just witness Chris's tears (although we'll pass over politely his threat to bash anyone who gives him a hard time about it . . .  )_____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Treasure Ballinger
Virtual Ability
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,745
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12-10-2009 10:26
I am man enough to admit that I cry. I am also a big enough boy to bust the head of anyone who doesn't like it. So I choose to not be a victim. ^^THIS, YEAH!^^ YOu go, boyeeee. /me high fives Chris. And, also while I'm thinking about it, same goes for a guy wearing a beautiful pink shirt. |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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12-10-2009 12:50
...You are demonstrating your bias again (as does Scylla below) assuming that I meant physical strength rather than mental strength or strength of character. I wasn't replying to you at all. I could care less what you meant. ...ROFL! Your own posts are full of references to the "Geek" without whom it would seem that you might have problems even starting up SL. The Resident Geek is the one who gets his knuckles barked rummaging around inside our computers. I'm quite competent with technology, thank you. I just prefer to be a computer user rather than a computer hobbyist, for the most part. ...If this was relevant, why do proportionately so many more "females" get driven to lesbian relationships, then? I understand you can spek (sp)authoritatively regarding this subject. This is so twisted, in so many ways, that it's difficult to know where to even begin. First, those involved in lesbian relations (or any other sort of SL relationship) aren't "driven", they choose to do so. Despite your acid dig at my personal choices in partners, your comment is basically correct. I can and will speak authoritatively on this. SL lesbians fall, in my experience, into five categories. One, the true lesbians: women who are lesbian in RL and choose to continue that in SL. Two, the curious: women who have wondered or fantasized about a lesbian relationship, and who use SL as a safe way to explore. Three, the male to female transgendered, many of whom prefer women as sexual partners. Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing. Four, the RL males who are turned on by watching lesbian sex. And five, the RL males who get a thrill out of "tricking" lesbians into having "sex with a man". Such men are scum, IMO, whether they choose to keep their identity a dirty little secret, or to gloat about their "cleverness" afterward. ...You personally (as well as others) have demonstrated consistently your lack of strength of character, allowing yourself to be manipulated so that your emotional weaknesses have been made public; and that is losing control in a forum, where speed and extent of response is completely under your control - inworld I would anticipate that hyperemotional over-reactions would be precipitated more quickly, and my experience backs this up.... That was aimed at Scylla, but I believe you had me in mind as well when you wrote it. I am proud of being both an emotional and a rational person. I do not believe I have ever "lost control", either in a forum or in world. I have, on occasion, said or done something which I've later regretted. I believe that, in those instances where I've wronged another person, I've apologized. Where I've made a personal reversal of course, I've put it right out here for everyone to see. My SL life is an open book; if anyone finds enjoyment or enlightenment from it, then I am pleased. I'd also note that it takes more strength of character to admit a mistake or make a public retraction than it does to stubbornly insist on the righteousness of one's own position. Gods, I am glad I have you on Ignore. I wouldn't have run across this outpouring of bile if I hadn't spotted Scylla quoting you. _____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd |
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Twilight Miami
Poetical Iridescence
Join date: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 43
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12-10-2009 13:27
I fail to see what difference this makes, unless you are arguing that males constitute a kind of "hive mind," and that they are all collectively consenting to be led about by the dick. Interesting observation Scylla. I don't think we will ever live in a world where men will collectively consent to be led about by the dick. Perhaps on an individual basis they might but not collectively. I am man enough to admit, however, that in my case, leash or no leash, I will follow a beautiful woman into the depths of Mordor... (and pray to any god that is listening that she does not turn into a man when we get there!). There have been lots of comments referring to testosterone but I have not seen much regarding estrogen. What is that saying, or not? I wish someone would slip me an estrogen laced cocktail so I would have more capacity to cry when my favorite sports team loses and still be able to beat up anyone that makes fun of me if I do (like Chris). "Originally Posted by Chris Norse. I am man enough to admit that I cry. I am also a big enough boy to bust the head of anyone who doesn't like it." Spoken like a true Neanderthal... Oh, I digress. But it is the way of the dengenerative mind and, perhaps ironically, the way of the inquisitive one too. I want to thank Scylla for resurrecting my faith in the power of pretentious fallacy...and Pep for getting everything right. Oh yea, I almost forgot, thank you Scylla for that incredibly lovely and provocative picture of the troglodyte. It has inspired me to search for a new skin for my avi... |
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Twilight Miami
Poetical Iridescence
Join date: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 43
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12-10-2009 13:29
^^THIS, YEAH!^^ YOu go, boyeeee. /me high fives Chris. And, also while I'm thinking about it, same goes for a guy wearing a beautiful pink shirt. Any kudos for me Treasure if I admit to wearing ladies underwear on occasion? |
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Whyspe Wylie
Registered User
Join date: 4 Dec 2007
Posts: 108
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12-10-2009 14:06
@Scylla,
I agree that we do still need to push for equitable treatment in many areas, I just think that a lot of women I know still seem to be waiting for permission to live their lives. One swallow doesn't make a summer! Although it's a pretty good birthday treat. lulz. If you changed your attitude, you might not have to wait for your birthday to come 'round. No we weren't. No two people are. I'm disappointed that you didn't quote animal farm. This would have been a perfect place to point out that "Some are more equal than others." Name: Whyspe Wylie; Specialist Subject: The bleeding obvious. Yea! for Fawlty Towers You can't separate your gender from your person - FAIL! You do love semantics. I suppose I also should define 'worth' if we're going to dissect the whole thing properly. Pep (More emotional arguments, eh?)[/QUOTE] This does not apply. |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 14:49
I don't suppose there is any point in waiting for logical responses to my observations, is there?
Pep (stirs the mud at the bottom of the gene pool again to see whether the XXers can come up with anything which might reflect reality, as opposed to wishful thinking.) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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12-10-2009 14:59
I particularly liked the self-referential irony implicit in this part of your post, Lindal.
...ROFL! Your own posts are full of references to the "Geek" without whom it would seem that you might have problems even starting up SL. The Resident Geek is the one who gets his knuckles barked rummaging around inside our computers. I'm quite competent with technology, thank you. I just prefer to be a computer user rather than a computer hobbyist, for the most part. ...If this was relevant, why do proportionately so many more "females" get driven to lesbian relationships, then? I understand you can spek (sp)authoritatively regarding this subject. _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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12-10-2009 15:24
Interesting observation Scylla. I don't think we will ever live in a world where men will collectively consent to be led about by the dick. Perhaps on an individual basis they might but not collectively. I am man enough to admit, however, that in my case, leash or no leash, I will follow a beautiful woman into the depths of Mordor... (and pray to any god that is listening that she does not turn into a man when we get there!). There have been lots of comments referring to testosterone but I have not seen much regarding estrogen. What is that saying, or not? I wish someone would slip me an estrogen laced cocktail so I would have more capacity to cry when my favorite sports team loses and still be able to beat up anyone that makes fun of me if I do (like Chris). "Originally Posted by Chris Norse. I am man enough to admit that I cry. I am also a big enough boy to bust the head of anyone who doesn't like it." Spoken like a true Neanderthal... Oh, I digress. But it is the way of the dengenerative mind and, perhaps ironically, the way of the inquisitive one too. I want to thank Scylla for resurrecting my faith in the power of pretentious fallacy...and Pep for getting everything right. Oh yea, I almost forgot, thank you Scylla for that incredibly lovely and provocative picture of the troglodyte. It has inspired me to search for a new skin for my avi...  _____________________
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