Our favorite little adfarmer takes aim at Linden Lab auction Sims

Interesting that this comes out only after it was suggested by another poster. This thread is very long, and I don't pretend to understand it all, but following Raymond's link to the for sale ads gives me a good idea of what the purpose of these parcels really are. I think the only purpose was a long range plan to build this network and sell it to who ever would pay the price, to be used for any reason, noble or nefarious.

Had one of these next to me at one time, and the 512 it came from was cut into strange sized parcels and listed for sale at slightly above average prices for the area.

I'm dumb but I'm not that dumb. I was being snide. I have 10,000 multi-prim objects in my inventory. A 16m plot of land that holds three prims is not a very useful place to store inventory.

No - it could be useful for storing one's SLX and OnRez server boxes, though. However, if one is landless and selling merchandise, it seems to me that it would be cheaper and make more sense to rent space to store these boxes than it would to go premium and buy a 16 sq.m. lot to place things on.

Ain't that the truth. you might as well rent a shop somewhere and put your boxes out of sight there. Gives you an inworld selling point as well.

We need to understand this more. The last thing anyone on this thread wants to do is open up the grid for more nonsensical or exploitative crap, but I just don't gr0k how parcel-to-parcel muting is anything but an *increase* in both privacy and liberties for residents, but if that's wrong, we really, really need to know why, and quickly, lest policy and code get built on false assumptions. If it's inappropriate to discuss a griefing scenario here, please send me or somebody you trust a PM on this.Right, but Dave, the problem is that decisions are getting made RIGHT NOW about how the adfarm fiasco will be reverted, and some of the options on the table would interfere with your business and your ability to serve your clients by making ownership of lone 16s in a sim either impossible or prohibitively expensive. Perhaps your NDAs allow you to share the information with LL, and it's compelling enough that any discussions here are moot--but I for one haven't heard that from a Linden, so as far as I know, options that would be detrimental to your business are still on the table.

It's understood that you don't want those options to become policy, but it's just not enough that you have a profitable, non-destructive business to prevent a decision that would make that business non-viable in order to correct a problem that costing residents and LL dearly. It may well be that you can't make your case in a public forum, but unless somebody can, I don't see a way those options will not be considered.

The post I was responding to said that a person was using the 16m as "storage" for three rocks. I thought this was mildly amusing and felt the need to respond sarcastically. Sorry for the confusion and derailment of the derailmen of the derailment of this epic thread.

I certainly hope that whatever this mysterious "business" of Dave's is doesn't get some kind of 'exception' just because of some relationship with Linden Lab.

Owning just one 16sqm of land in a sim running a bundle of scripts - which most likely scan - could certainly be classed without too much imagination stretching as using a 'disproportionate' amount of sim resources and thus AR'able as would someone with a 512sqm plot and 30 camping chairs on it.

Derailment can be infinite without a moderator, I suppose. Clearly I have not had enough coffee to get sarcasm yet this morning. Crap, it's almost afternoon here now. However, the discussion of the usefulness of 16 sq.m. lots is tangentially related to this thread. I find it interesting that noobs are encouraged to use them for storage, even though they are of limited use for that capacity - must be a way to encourage more premium memberships, although it also encourages the cutting of more 16 sq.m. lots. Although I am generally in favor of buying land over renting it, if one needs less than 100 prims for their activities, renting makes much more sense.

I'm starting to forget what this thread was supposed to be about in the first place.

Duh. It's about voting for the JIRA to get rid of the bug that puts your shoe up your ass.

I was assuming they were talking about packing the items in a rezzed box. And not having any copies anywhere.

I remember some people doing that and losing them all.

The way I understand the housecleaning program it searches the asset server for copies of an item if none exist it removes that entry.

But It doesn't search inside prims that are rezzed in world.

The first script I ever wrote in SL was a visitor detector.
The reference material on llSensor did advise against frequent and long-range scans on the basis of the load imposed on the sim.

There are JIRA topics to do with allowing mainlanders to identify top scripts in their parcels/sims.
In the interests of openness and of passing some governance load to residents, it really would be useful for us to be able to
1) Check on the performance of our own scripts in order to tune them to be environmentally friendly
2) Identify any scripted objects that are using a 'disproportionate' amount of sim resources

There is no question of knowing exactly what somebody else's script is doing, but it seems to me that if we are paying tier in a sim, we should be able to determine how the sim resources are being consumed.

You are probably right.

Of course Dave never even had to even speak up in the first place.

I still don't get why he came after me when I never referred to his 16M plots in the first place.

Did he think us yapping about 16M plots was going to change a damn thing about their permissibility? After all of Weedy's tirades in the past about landbots, he should have known better.

I kind of doubt they have a NDA covering "Dozens" of applications though, but sure - whatever.

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Id like to point out that scanning you and your objects routinely is totally permissible according to LL.

It would be doing "nothing wrong" officially at least.

Since you had asked if that might be what they are doing.

I know that some of the content creators do work under "NDA" status sometimes ... but I expect most of them, like the one Dave claims to be under, are probably completely unnecessary and just legal crap getting in the way of people enjoying themselves in a computer game.

If, of course, the NDA even exists, and is actually anything more than "not gonna tell you cos we don't want to". But I guess we won't know that either.

No matter... it's only a matter of time, I guess, before whatever they are doing becomes public knowledge. Then we'll see just what all the fuss was about.

Until then, in the absence of any other information, we can just speculate what they're hiding.

Apart from selling radios... I haven't got a clue what either of them contribute in this wonderful 'blue button holdings' project of theirs.

I don't even wear shoes! I have had my prim head shoved up my ass while teleporting, though.

At any rate, it seems like we're getting awfully worked up here in this thread about a variety of things.

I'm casting my vote behind being able to id top scripts on mainland, while we're at it.
It's this one: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-835

In order to make myself useful, I am also posting the URL to the JIRA meta-issue for adfarms, so y'all can view and vote on the various solutions:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-608

Maybe they're planning on putting 3 1-prim radios on each sim so everyone can listen to music?

Oh, wait, I can do that with no prims using my parcel settings.

I'd rather use Shoutcast and Winamp outside of SL, to be honest I doubt if many people would want to share my wierd tastes in music anyway...

well just imagine muting is a reality, you own a lot of land on a sim, and you dont like your neighbours and want to be an asshole. you can strip them of ANY privacy by making thier home invisible, you can make their parcel ugly by selectively muting prims, you can set them up for ARs by forcing them to do publically what they think they are doing privately. and their parcel would appear this way for every parcel you owned. use your imagination. imagine the possibilities.
for ages people have complained that we can cam past banlines, into their homes, etc. people have asked for 'void parcels', meaning the ability to make ones parcel invisible to non group members. this has never happened, not even in light of idv 'adult' parcels, so i can only surmise it cannot reasonable be done. so the next best thing is to allow people to render invisible the only possible form or privacy you have (your home)?
i know that prim muting is a popular idea, but i think it is a bad idea and people arent thinking it through to its logical ends. this _will_ become a problem if it is enacted. clearly the best way to deal with adfarms is to outlaw them and take strong action against existing adcutters. we know what adcutters are, this isnt an 'ugly build' issue. umnik isnt public enemy number one because of 'ugly builds', and any attempt to colour the adfarming situation as such is clearly and obviously disingenuous.

Perfectly stated.

That is why parcel muting would have to include muting (making invisible) the avatars on the muted parcel as well as any Resident objects - to avoid abuse by peeping Toms and other griefers. This should be extremely easy to do. Moreover, the effect would only appear client side to persons on the parcel doing the muting who do not override the mute - pretty much like Force Sun works. You opt for midnight, I opt for noon, the landowner opts for sunset. It would not affect what any other person sees, unless they come on the land and opt to keep the mute too.

And I agree wholeheartedly this is not about "ugly builds," which is entirely in the eye of the beholder. It is about land-griefing with sufficiently obnoxious displays to drive people away or extort from them. If the victim has the power to make the griefer's visual assault vanish with a keystroke, the griefer/extortionist is left sucking wind and eating tier.

I think it should work rather simply

You can either display whats in a parcel. (including Avatars)

Or

You can display nothing in a parcel. (including Avatars)

A parcel would literally just look like an empty plot to those who muted it.


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That would include all text, sounds, and voice that originated in the parcel.

If you turn the mute on the parcel should behave as if it were empty.

AND if you mute a parcel you should NOT be able to enter it at any height.

QFT

Could not have said it any better. Thank you Nina.

That's the only way that muting should work - all or nothing in a parcel.
LL *have* to produce that basic parcel-muting code in order to avoid IDV being a complete, absolute, transparent farce. They may as well extend the muting criteria out to the users.

Great point

Anyone who isn't age verified shouldn't be able to see anything on parcels that are rated Age verified only.

Any adfarmer advertising porn would also need to be age-restricted.

I dunno though that would be a comprehensive plan. Might scare LL because it makes sense.

Right. I mean, I've seen some elaborate proposals that would allow residents to ban prims by owner or creator or whatever, but I just can't see a way to do that without hitting performance of the viewer and requiring gobs of storage on the servers. In contrast, I see only minimal performance and storage impact from parcel-to-parcel muting--where the parcel owner gets to decide which parcels are completely invisible from that parcel (avatars, prims, particles--everything but surface patch and water).

But if this too would be a griefing problem, again, eager to know how, so we don't screw this up.

Har has been promoting this and I love the idea, but something in my gut tells me there's more to it. I don't know, maybe it's my lack of trust in LL. Maybe I think this should be easy but because of the way they designed the grid it's not. I don't know. If they can make it work they they should go for it. An all or nothing mute all objects based on parcel, but I'm only for it if it's available to all customers whether they own land or not. Whether they are paid or not.

If muting objects is not an option then I'm with Nina 100%. As I have repeated ad nauseum in another thread, we know what an ad farm looks like, stop making this complicated and just do it.