Our favorite little adfarmer takes aim at Linden Lab auction Sims

You're absolutely right that 16m parcels aren't a required component to do keyscanning. But I don't think that's the point.

All the keyscanning example illustrates - is that there *are* non-nefarious reasons for owning a 16m parcel, amongst others. Whether the reason for owning the parcel is 'Good Enough' is really irrelevant: We're all supposed to be able to 'own' Mainland land, and if Linden begins reposessing it for any reason outside of a billing/TOS issue, it'll set a very dangerous precident.

Well thats true they shouldn't repossess it in my view.

However the existence of 16M parcels DOES make adfarming far more profitable.

Thus its often suggested that the future ability to divide land so small be removed as a counter.

As far as I can see no one can come up with simple, concise reasons they need 16M plots. Evidently keyscanning isn't one?

And even that reason was far from simple and concise.

Yes, I agree. LL doesn't need to be repoing land from adfarmers unless they violate the ToS/CS with their content. Question is, will they make adfarm content and the resultant extortion against the ToS/CS?

Personally, I prefer the grass roots movement to any ham-fisted approach LL will undoubtedly take, but meh. I guess I'll take whatever we can get in the long run.

Won't deter me from trying, though.

Your view is exceedingly narrowminded and ignorant. We have dozens of purposes for our plots and continue to develop innovative ideas. Simply because we do not choose to disclose our target projects and to you, does not mean useful purposes don't exist.

You have no right to decree, what is and what is not useful to us and our clients. In my opinion, blindly judging what we do with our land is more egregious than alot of what you advocate with regard to ad cutting or land extortion.

Besides that, we don't want to give the extortionists or bot runners any ideas which would be detrimental to our bottom line. It a business decision, which we strictly adhere to.

In fact, you are stipulating to our point, by demonizing us for no good reason, simply because others who have nothing to do with us, are nefarious in their behavior.

Ill ignore your rather laughable personal attacks over me having an opinion -

And instead ask, if you have DOZENS of purposes, if you can list a few to enlighten those who see no reason for 16M plots to live on.

Surely not *ALL* of the *DOZENS* of reasons are trade secrets or some such nonsense.

I am at a loss to know why if these plots are so valuable, why it seems no one can easily explain their value to one as "ignorant" as I am.

I will remind you, you are the one on the attack, not me. Your accusations about our conduct are nothing less than unfounded and false.

We are under no obligation whatsover to tell you any reason why we own land and what we do with it.

Of course you are at a loss, you answered your own question.

What we do with our land is none of your business.

Am I?

And what accusations have I made?

Other than people being unable to give clear valuable uses for 16M parcels.

I asked some questions. I didnt think the sparse answers were all that good, I said so. Evidently even the technically astute who commented didn't see the huge value as worth sharing with me.

Or maybe they just dont like me because of my unfounded attacks and are biting their tongues. Talarus for example is noted for not expressing his opinion when he disagrees with me.



Well great - its none of my business.

Lovely PR effort for making the use of those 16M plots appear to be on the up and up by the way.

A comment which is totally uncalled for. You are worse than any ad cutter or extortionist.

Thanks again for proving our point about being needlessly attacked for no reason, though.

I'm an extortionist now, am I?

What thread are you reading?

Where am I attacking the evidently plural you?

I believe you were the one that used personal attacks.

I merely said no one seems to be able to explains the value of those 16M plots.

I wasn't even asking for an accounting, just a general concept question.

If you have questions or concerns, then you should use PM or meet with us in-world.

It is patently wrong to insist we divulge our policies and projects on demand to placate any opinion you have. It's unlikely we would change your *anti-everything you don't understand* opinion.

I looked at your profile. You seem to be an avatar shape creator. Right? Personally, my view is everyone has an Appearance tool available to them and I see no point in selling shapes. Simply because I don't see any purpose or value in doing it, it does not mean that you can't or shouldn't. I undersatnd your right to do as you please with your creativity and the last thing I expect is for you to answer to me for it. We expect the same respect in return.

We don't break any rules. We bend over backwards to help the neighborhood. We don't get paid for it, we volunteer our time, because we care about others. Never once have we accepted a single $L for providing a service to a neighbor, have never listed a plot for sale or placed annoying banners, spinning ads or bad script. Yet you seem to needlessly and continually belittle us by implying we are behaving in some useless and/or surreptitious manner, despite our best efforts.

It's not right Colette. We are not your enemy. We are on the same side of the issue.

Colette - FWIW, I think I understand where you're coming from on this. I also think I understand where Dave's coming from.

Maybe this isn't what you're trying to convey - but from your tone, it could be construed that those who own 16m parcels don't deserve them, and unless someone can prove their value to you - that there's nothing wrong with taking them away.

I own one 16m parcel. I probably paid L$100 for it way back when - which is a trivial sum. For my own purposes, I'm sure there are lots of friends that would allow me to run my scripts on their parcel if I were to no longer have my 16m parcel. I'm not concerned about keeping it over money, or because I'll have a huge hardship if it were gone.

Its the *principle* that I would have a hard time with. Its not like I leased land on a private island and had it confiscated - this is mainland property, that I fairly purchased, and have used responsibly like anyone else. Linden ownership aside, we're supposed to really 'own' mainland property, right?

How would you feel if someone came along and demanded that you justify why you use your 512m parcel? I'm not sure if you're a landowner, but I'd think that you'd take issue with it just the same - on the same matter of principle, regardless of whether it held value or not.

I'll also offer this: There's already a Community Standards rule that could be used against ad farms, *today*, without taking folk's land away that didn't do anything wrong. Its just up to Linden how they choose to interpret & enforce it:

Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace.

WHERE in this thread did I say "Why does Dave Herbst have 16M in world parcels?

WHERE in this thread did I say "Why cant Dave Herbst explain the usefulness of these parcels?"

I was asking a general concept as to the value of having 16M parcels in ever sim across the grid.

I wasn't asking about specific business detail at all ... you took that onto yourself as to what I was asking.




AM I incapable of understanding the amazing intricacies of a high level description of the value of the plots?

Oh silly me. Maybe I should go do needlepoint or something.

Again I wasn't demanding a DAMN thing from YOU, I was asking a general question.

I'll point out that a certain former regular poster you may know used to routinely get slammed for being "irrationally" against landbots because she supposedly didn't understand them either.



Luckily for me selling shapes isn't attached in some way to some of the suggested solutions to the adfarmer problem, then.



Again I never directly referred to you at all. I was asking about the whole CONCEPT involved here.

Believe it or not , didn't even have you in mind.

The reason being is removing 16M plots is one way some people would like to combat AD FARMERS.

My personal stated opinion was they shouldn't remove 16M plots that are already owned, but curtail their creation in new sims.

I made that pretty clear.

Others have wanted to ban them all. To hinder Ad farmers.

In response many pointed out that people use them for non-Ad farming reasons.

But ask for a some *simple* conceptual examples and the cupboard was pretty bare.

We got - scanning Avatar keys , which even those who suggested it didnt see as all that vital to the life of 16M plots, and we got someone using ONE 16M plot to back up his scripting services.

Okay great .. so I don't see those as that great reasons. I know they have to be used for more than that. No one is buying 16M plots in every sim for those 2 things. Even *IM* not that dumb, regardless of how you feel about me.




Best efforts - what the hell are you talking about?

Your only effort was to personally attack me and tell me it was none of my business.

If thats you best effort, I hate to see your worst effort.



I never said you were my enemy. Heck I never mentioned you at all.

I never even advocated removing the 16M plots away from current owners - Not even the damn Ad farmers.

I think were reading different threads, can you post me the URL to the one you are reading?

I never said that.

Some people want to get rid of 16M plots entirely.

Some others say they are too valuable.

I just want to know why.

Heck I never said take any land away from anyone.

I can see limiting FUTURE 16M plots, because I think it will help hinder adfarmers.

But if theres good reasons for all these spread all over the grid 16M plots, then I suppose you shouldn't use that solution.

But it is patronizing to assume I cant understand on a high level what the hell that value might be.

As recently as post 327 in this same thread I said I didn't support repossessing land.

In fact I was agreeing with you they shouldn't.

So, Dave, how is your cutting the grid into 16m plots for your own personal profit any different than the ad cutters and extortionists doing it?

Oh yeah, you don't sell your land, you just trade when you are shamed into it.

Fair 'nuff, Collette. This is a long thread, and I'd only read the last couple pages. Apologies for missing the context



To be fair, you might be making some negative assumptions about what Dave is doing here. Dave (and his partner Weedy) have been around for a long time, and have been responsible members of the community for as long as I've been here. When the "Bush Guy" crisis was going on (which seems strangely similar to the AdCutter crisis), they were doing all they could to fight against it.

They do own a large number of microparcels, many purchased *to keep out of adcutters hands*, rather than cutting them themselves. To my knowledge, they've been pretty cool about selling adjoining microparcels to adjoining landowners - rather than having to be shamed into it.

If you've got specific examples of the contrary going on, I guess that's completely different. Maybe there's something going on between you & Dave I'm unaware of. But from my personal experience, Dave & Weedy have been pretty responsible citizens.

Dave manages his own business and is under no obligation to tell you why 16m parcels are important to him or what he does with him. If LL begins considers eliminating 16m parcels then he'll have to make a good argument to them, but it's not yours, mine or anybody else's business.

I never said Dave had to tell me anything.

I asked the question in the thread to any who might have and answer.

I mean isn't that what we do here?


I was asking about the concept. I didn't drag it down to the "Well Dave, what are you up to?"

Dave didn't even cross my mind.

Ill spell it out real clear since it seems to be confusing people -

Theres a big difference between asking -


"What would one use 16M parcels in every sim for?"

and asking

"Hey Resident X, what exactly are you doing with those 16M plots of yours anyhow?"

And I'm a little confused how you could discuss a proposed deterrent for adfarmers like removing 16M parcels

(which I sure didn't come up with)


Without talking in general terms what the hell 16M parcels are used for other than Adfarms.

In fact it would be a pretty good opportunity to shoot the whole remove 16M plots idea from anyone's consideration if basic rationale was provided as to what good they are.

Surely its better discussing that then just saying get rid of 16M plots who cares what use they may have.

-------------------

And no I'm not claiming LL ever said it was going to remove the plots. But the idea has been tossed around for YEARS among various people.

At one point Dave tried to sell all his plots. They were listed on ebay. Didn't get the price he wanted I guess. Too expensive for ad farmers perhaps.

The difference is Dave is not lowering anyone's property values with ugly spinning porn.

Not strictly in accordance with reality there.
To my certain knowledge you put up at least one 16m plot in Hengill for sale to Anybody at L$200.

parel muting is a griefing opportunity, a further 'invasion of av privacy', and will not work full stop.
clearly the best thing would be to simply remove adfarms from the grid, without apology, and without refund. come down on this like a ton of bricks and the grid will be better for it.

They may have never listed "a plot for sale", but Dave's partner did try to sell their entire network of plots on two separate occasions. They were listed right here on the land sale forum. Didn't get the price they wanted I guess.

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