Our favorite little adfarmer takes aim at Linden Lab auction Sims

Well, we'll review again in the future and see what happens.



Now THAT is a pipe dream. I find it interesting that you can disagree with me that a grass roots resistance movement which doesn't necessarily require a huge sacrifice is impossible (or even just implausible), yet you expect a grass roots effort to throw away all our land, stores, businesses etc over it in a quixotic effort to convince LL to do something IS possible, or even plausible. Threatening LL with withdrawing tier is more absurd than the old "I'm leaving and taking my 300+ guildies with me" cliche from MMORPGs.

Still, good luck with that effort. Given LL's track record in that regard, I think I will have to cop a bit of your pessimistic outlook regarding its success. :-/

Yes, exactly right.

And just before LL finally intervenes, somebody will be the last one to have paid-off the adfarmers before they got wiped from the grid. That person is not going to feel very smart. Maybe not stupid, but not very smart.

I think it's more the reverse. The problem has gotten so bad, that more and more people are making the regrettable choice to give in.

I had absolutely perfect comprehension as to what the bigger issue was when I paid off some adfarmers. I think I could make good money at adfarming if I didn't love SL and were completely lacking in conscience. I made the lamentable choice to buy up adfarm plots to save the sim. The business is successful, all the neighboring businesses and residences love me, and all is well in South East Nautilus. Stupidity just doesn't enter into the picture. Morality does; and if you want to say that I made the overall adfarm problem worse, then I would agree with you. But it was not a decision born out of stupidity!

See me inworld to get my new free t-shirt:
"I'm with counterproductive.
<=="

From the blob:
Jack Linden Says:
February 8th, 2008 at 5:50 PM PST

"Yes, we are actively discussing ad farms at the moment, we’re very aware of the impact they have but we don’t have anything concrete to share as yet. Keep reading the blog."

I have kept reading th blog since 5:50. Nothing yet. But I will keep reading the blog until they post something. I hope it happens soon because I gotta pee.

Any minute now I'm sure...

/keeps reading.

I wonder if Ad Farms could be categorized as "SPAM"

Spam isn't allowed in SL, right?

They certainly resemble a 3D version of email spam as Carl mentioned.

I've always said that adfarms already violate the community standards, and LL just doesn't choose to enforce it.

I wouldn't be surprised if forum readers who previously knew nothing about ad farms decided to give it a go after finding out about it from threads like this.

Just because the majority make it out to be pure evil isn't going to put someone off giving it a try, especially considering everyone seems to think there is easy money in it.

Easy money you say? Do go on...

Hey back to the other topic discussed in these threads - And these 16M in every sim junk..

Why do people need to keep your Av key on file anyhow?

As handy as av key databases are, they could theoretically be exploited. Think of it as your ID # on the grid. Potential script issue. But in most ways, it's about as harmless as simply knowing your avatar name.

Honestly, I see a progression here.

Ad farms are one thing. Next is raw, unmitigated land extortion (purposely making an icky build to manipulate the land market, or harm others for whatever reason).

Then, there's notecard spam, group invite spam, item spam, spam, spam, spam, spam.

It goes on and on.

Actually, I think we've seen a major turning point. The Company is seriously looking into how to make the mainland better. We are seeing a response.

That's the key. It's just like private estates - I don't have really whiz-bang policy wonks writing up legalese - if I see anything *clearly* abusive, then it's zapped. Which I hardly ever have to do because people know I could.

Nobody can write policy fast enough to keep up with the evil geniuses out there. And there's no need, really.

I have no policy that states things like: "Don't over-run Caledon with prim mice" or "Don't rapidly cycle your textures until Caledon looks like a Beatlesque acid trip" - it's just plain common sense and paying attention.

And that is exactly what has been missing for so long.

But thats not the point. The point isnt how harmless it supposedly is.

The point is what do they need it for?

They obviously need it for something. But why not tell us straight up - no games?

I'm not sure anyone really *needs* it for anything, other than say, you might be able to sell it - though I think W Hat's nametokey database is 100% free. I have no idea how complete theirs is, though.

The most awful thing I can think to do with it myself is probably spam people with a script.

More notorious uses of a 16m parcel network might include avatar tracking, but, it wouldn't work very well for that. 4 out of 5 places you might go are private estates lacking the network.

I smell possible marketing trend info, which could be quite useful. But having not studied this... who knows. Maybe there is something we are all missing.

So basically one of the supposedly legitimate reasons to have 16M in every sim is to collect Av keys which they use for no purpose?

Am I the only one who finds that pretty lame?

While add farms do indeed suck, I will always remember a new neighbor who built a butt ugly sky box about 50 meters up. Above that he orbited a massive Elvis image, and above that a giant rotating and lighted question mark. I eventually moved.

That was over a year ago. Found the old landmark the other day and tp'd in for a look see. (forgot I'd built high in the sky to escape Elvis's eye. )

It was still there with some additions.

Ya' never know what might crop up next door, and don't hold your breath hoping it will go away.

Well, I'll give one example of where I've used Name2Key recently. Inherited this big hairy script system that used avatar keys for opening doors, sensing guests, recording visits, sending greetings, teleporting, etc., and I was supposed to make it "access controlled"--and of course it would be a huge pain for the user to maintain a list of avatar *keys* on a notecard. So I'd have to either rewrite all that source to use avatar names instead, or just a little front-end that read in names and used keys on the backend. There's no theoretical reason why that couldn't have been done using names throughout (and there's a memory advantage in doing that), but it would have meant more work for me, and a longer wait for the user to get his system.

Abstractly, there are some script functions that rely on avatar keys only. If the avatar isn't around when you need that key, the script has to get it somehow. If the script has ever encountered that avatar, it could keep its own record of the avatar's key, but if the script has to, say, send a valentine to a resident knowing only the name, it has to get that key somehow. Of course, such an ability could be abused ("penny dreadfuls" ), and the in-world services enabled by the ability are hardly "necessities" for having a pleasant enough SecondLife, but people do want them.

Even if there is an argument that there is no need for 16s as stand alone plots, they do offer more flexibility in constructing larger plots. The smaller the lowest 'denomination' of land division, the more (and smoother edged) plot shapes can be created.

I doubt that removing 16s would solve the problem, adfarmers will simply use the next smallest available to them.

So basically its easier to rely on an incomplete list and write a script using it which wont work for those not on that list

Than it is making a script that will work in all cases.

In the cases where it is either that or nothing, the choice is academic. Most active name2key DBs are complete enough that the vast majority of people you look up in normal use will exist in them.

Again, having your key is largely irrelevant and non-problematic.

Well, but two things: The list is surprisingly complete. And there are cases (like the valentine) where there's just no choice but to use the list: the script only knows the name of the avatar. As I've posted before, though, I'd personally very much prefer to only use the web Search data about avatars, so it would be possible for folks to opt-out, and just deal with the fact it will be incomplete--some valentines just won't get sent. But LL has raised issues about the availability of that data to scripts, and created a huge mess with using some of that data (profile pictures of avatars that haven't opted out of Search) that's available to everyone on the web but that in-world scripts aren't supposed to use without offering yet another level of "opting out." So, to be safe, we use the w-hat database--which offers no privacy at all--to avoid getting caught using the Linden web data that has the built-in opt-out privacy. It's a "through the looking-glass" privacy policy.

See. I'm not worried people have my key.

I just don't like the inability to give a straight answer as to why they need to be scanned.

The person who is tracking them didnt even explain.


It sounds like if the key is useful and harmless then LL should make it readily available without this scanning within sims nonsense.

So LL have raised issues about this data, but scripters are going ahead and using it?

Im kinda surprised people point to W-hat in serious conversation these days - they used to be *THE* most notorious griefer group on the grid.

Also how complete the Av key databases are *NOT* a justification for further scanning.

Its kind of like saying since people peaking in windows were so good at it they already have naked photos of almost everyone, so they should be allowed to keep taking more photos.

That's a killer point.
If the key is generally useful, and there is no danger involved, then LL should make the information generally available.

Agreed. I think the yelling and screaming at LL about "ad-farms" and their ilk has gotten past the layers of bone and past the haze of coding and into LL's brains quite some time ago. From what little LL has told us, I think they are trying to do something, but want to make sure that "something" doesn't hurt the legit users. Not an easy task when you look at it.

I'll take the small bit-by-bit advances. Large advances usually backslide quite a bit, making the real gain not quite as much as the intial gain. Small "baby step" gains are usually set in stone, and do not backslide. Making the small things that make our Second Lives better.



The biggest thing here, Des, is that ~you~ do have policy set. Even as "common sense". You follow it, as does all your Estate Managers.

How many times have we seen two Lindens make two seperate decisions?

Quite clearly, LL's outlook of "common sense" needs a policy first. Before the "Great Expansion", Lindens worked better together. Each knew what the other was doing, and what the overall "vision" was. I think a lot of Lindens have lost that "vision", or have just never been introduced to it.

Let's take the example of the "No Blocking" rule on parcels. Some Lindens claim you can't even ban a person from your property if it surrounds theirs, as this would "block" them from entering. Most Lindens, as well as most Residents, saw the turning point on this rule with Point-to-Point Teleport, and realise that the "No Blocking" rule is outdated, and no longer applies. That there are still instances of confusion and double-rulings, shows that LL needs to teach those Lindens handling such matters what their "vision" is. Or to put it in context of the quote; to instill some "common sense" into them.

~Jessy
PS Why do they call it "common sense" when it's so blasted rare?