Our favorite little adfarmer takes aim at Linden Lab auction Sims

Big difference. In bully episodes, the problem is clear. Here, 90% of the people don't know there is any bullying involved. Most probably have never priced a 16m and think they are paying the going rate.

BTW, work is slow for me, so I can do this all day if you want. I still like and respect you but you're way off on this one.

Oh, whatever.

Well they priced their Obviously BIGGER plot in the same neighborhood , didn't they?

So obviously they should know that tiny little plot is over priced.

You know what, some people even have said to me that they are grateful that the nice advertisers put their lots for sale at any prices, so that neighbors have the option of buying them out if they don't like it. They think the land for sale is a kind gesture! Certainly, some do not see the bullying.

What is this some kind of kiddie threat?

Didn't I just say giving into bullies is stupid.

Are you really calling me a bully? Ok Colette, I'm done. Sorry if you felt attacked. I was just disagreeing with you. And my "I forgive you" comment was a joke. I've known you for a long time and know you have a great sense of humor, otherwise I would not have posted that.

No I'm not calling you a bully but the - "I can go at this all day" implying <unless you give in> was lame.


I don't expect you to agree to my use of the word stupid. But that doesn't mean I'm going to retract it.

Actually all I was implying was that I'm bored. I don't expect you to change your opinion and am not needing a retraction. Actually, all I'm needing right now is to leave this thread.

F*cking ad farmers. Rile me up every time.

Good. God forbid they should figure out what's coming and unload what they can before it's all completely worthless. After these latest loathsome acts, if they imagine they're gonna get the same generous advance warning LL afforded the bankers, well, exactly how would it be in LL's best interest to do that? It's not like adfarmers have depositors' interests to affect. So, fine with me if they play chicken with each other, right over the cliff.While of course one gets on with things, forgiveness is premature. When they kneel before us all, repenting and begging forgiveness, then... well, then we'll just see.

No worries -

While I still do think its stupid ...

It probably would have been more diplomatic to say

"Its not being smart, to pay the ad farmers off"

That's why spreading the word is important. With Ad Zoos springing up all over the place, it becomes an infectious response to the adfarmers. The more there are, the more there will be. I don't know where the "critical point" is, but as long as we continue to spread the word in as many forms as possible, we *will* reach it.



Sure, he can, but then the people around where he moves ALSO block him, and again when he moves again. That's the concept. SL isn't big, so the critical mass required is much smaller than that compared to a RL grass roots initiative.



It's not the single plot that hurts, but that monthly payment for ALL of his plots. Once we reach critical penetration in the mindshare of landbuyers, he won't be making his tier payments anymore, and will either default or sell out completely. In the few weeks that the Ad Zoo initiative has existed, we've already had one convert get out of the adfarm/extortion business, and are working on another.



I know that solution is attractive to you and others, but I don't think arbitrary price controls are going to even be considered by LL. IF LL gets involved at all, it either will be via some kind of zoning policy, or something like limiting the smallest amount of land owned in a sim. LL avoids like the plague dictating anything remotely related to market pricing controls.

That's why education is important.

"Stupid" is extremely relative. If I go home to find a parcel taken over by ad-cutters and my hotel business deliberately ruined, I could "do the right thing" and sit there and pay $195 a month to host an audience to an ad farm (until their leases expire and no one renews), or I could buy out the plots and save my business. Either action could be considered "stupid" depending on whether you look at the situation morally or financially.

I freely admit that I will take what Colette would say is the stupid course, while I continue to shout my displeasure with LL and work the greater problem in other ways, with the optimism that this community standards violating is going to be dealt with. And in the mean time I will "stupid" all the way to the bank.

So even if you find my course of action reprehensible, I really don't think "stupid" is the word here. Maybe "saving one's ass in the face of utter futility" would be a better term.

I wouldn't necessarily call it "stupid". Stupid, to me, implies foreknowledge and willfully making an error when you know it is an error. Most folks, I would just call "ignorant" of the situation.

It isn't a sin to be ignorant. We are ALL ignorant of a great many things throughout our lives. However, it IS a sin to remain so. That's why education and initiatives surrounding educating others about the evils of the extortionists are ultimately the best solution. Everyone has a very powerful tool in their arsenals to fight back 1-on-1 with the "bullies"; they just have to be shown how and supported with the morale to do it.

You have a third option (probably more than a third, too, but I am only going to speak about one here). Block them in, cover them up, incorporate them into your build, and make them into an educational spectacle. Build an Ad Zoo!



You do realize that the most likely reason they were able to come in and set up their ad farm next to you is because someone else, just like you, paid them off somewhere else. Plus, since you have demonstrated your acceptance of their terms, they will probably come knocking again in the future. That's the way with extortionists and blackmailers. Once you start paying, you generally never stop.



I wouldn't call it "reprehensible", but it sure is self-defeating in the long run.

How much of your tier are -you- gonna spend blocking out adfarms? There are up to 8 spots directly around any one rotatling sign.

Look I like the ad zoo, the main one. Timo and I are friends and I had a hand in helping convert that one ad farmer. It had NOTHING to do with blocking them.

Blocking as a strategy is great in the short time, and sometimes can be great sport, but no one really thinks that blocking will be the downfall of ad farms by itself.

Which is a really funny and cute idea. Unfortunately it would require a complete tear-down and re-do of my business plan in that sim.



This is the moral component of the choice we all have to wrestle with. I fully understand how it works, and what the implications are, but I personally can't afford to bankroll you guys' protest. This is a "criminal" activity that already violates the community standards, don't forget. I, and the buy-outs before me were all victims in this, as well as unwilling perpetrators.



For the greater good, yes. But when I eventually own farther than I can see, then it isn't possible to defeat myself.

I'm already spending a bit of my tier with my Ad Zoo build. I am also blocking one large ad farm adjacent to me on two sides. I've already had the Lindens decimate many of the offending encroaching prims from it, too.

For my land, I am happy to donate some of it to the cause. When I am no longer victimized by them, I will likely help others out with tier, too. It's not about how much tier I can donate to someone else, but how I can show them to do it within their tier. Same as Timo did for me. He didn't donate any tier to me; he didn't have to.



I disagree. I am aware of the conversation Timo had with Marly. The tactics used by the Ad Zoo (which DOES include blocking, btw) were instrumental in convincing her to reconsider.



No, and I never claimed otherwise. It is but one tool in the arsenal. No one component of the plan by itself is a guarantee; the whole plan offers no guarantees, either. However, it is something to do which IS having early success, and something we don't have to wait on the Lindens to do which they are not likely to do at all anyway.

No innocent land buyer just wanting to put up a home or whatever *deserves* to lose money in SL. While I agree anyone looking to spend real money should educate themselves about the domain, it's understandable that most new people don't expect SL to be such a treacherous area to play in. IMHO, LL has dropped the ball here, at least a little. It's about expectations.

Every time I see an ad farm, I think "LL really has lost control of things and lost touch with their customer". I'm hearing a lot of buzz about competition coming soon. If there is ever a mass exodus, I think it will be for two reasons:

1) Someone figured out how to give us a better and more reliably performing metaverse.

2) Someone figured out that the best way to keep a customer is to make them feel they are being heard and cared about.

I am lucky in that I started my Zoo as part of my initial build, so I understand where you are coming from. However, when you can radically change things in a few days (I built 90% of my build in 3 days), it is not necessarily a huge issue. That said, I have no idea how your build is set up, so it could have been very difficult to deal with.



No one ever asked for you to do so, least of all me. The Ad Zoo doesn't take donations or tier, that I know of. It is an education campaign, and everyone that builds a zoo does it on their own resources, not those of any other. You bankroll it only for yourself, if you want. It is simply one method of protest, and certainly not the only one. However, it does come with a bit of design support, and a LOT of moral support. I'm willing to help anyone out who would like some suggestions as to how to deal with their particular ad farmer "issues". Everyone is welcome to see what I did with mine (as long as it exists, anyway).



I wish that were true. Unfortunately, if it did violate the CS, then LL would be doing something about cleaning it up. They certainly had a chance when they came by to remove the encroaching prims from the neighboring ad farm. However, it (the ad farm) is still there.



Well, until you surround yourself with thousands of sqm of open land to push them outside of your and all your tenants/guests view distance, you'll still be defeating yourself as well as the rest of us. Yeah, I know; you're the most important person when it comes to considerations that affect you; I get that. I feel that way too, most times. I guess I would just like to believe that there are other people out there who will consider the greater good once in a while.

While it may happen over time, I don't see an overnight (or really, a measurable in a finger pointing sort of way) exodus away from SL. Not unless there's a way to move your content. And I very much doubt LL will let that happen. I'm not just talking about things I created, but all the things I've spend US$ on created by others.

Having said that, I really really really hope that some strong competition comes along soon (er, or ever). The consumer wins if that happens.

Sorry, Talarus, I didn't mean bankrolling your specific plan, which is admirable, by the way. I only meant that if I let my business become ruined because I won't give in to ad-cutters, then I could be left paying $195 a month in tier on a formerly successful and now-ruined business.

It's easy for people to shout "Don't give in to ad cutters" in the forums, but the cost for this form of protest is prohibitive for me.

I think you've summed up something of my attitude to it.
In the two instances of my group buying ad plots the rationalisation (yes!) was:
1) These are *very small and isolated* pockets of ad-sized plots that are unblockable on one side (the Linden water)
2) Moving on the plots with a boundary on the protected water devalued the other plots for the ad-farmer - and totally devalues them for advertising.

We didn't own any land in the sims involved, but we did sail past the plots.

There are waterways in Southern Corsica that have been lined by ad plots. Most Corsican waterways are free of ad plots. We "did the wrong thing" very strategically in very specific circumstances.
In the same circumstances, we'd do it again.

I don't see it as "self-defeating". The issue is getting enough attention that in the long run, it's going to get solved. We simply "won" in a minor skirmish in a war that is unwinnable unless LL give us more options to control what we see in "our world".



The advent of IDE *should* have the beneficial effect that the code *should* be developed to visually mute the content of restricted-content parcels. That code *should* be extended slightly to allow visual muting of parcel content on other criteria.

After visual muting, the only non-TOS-breaking 'griefing' potential for ad farmers will be to obstruct movement via ban-lines or collisions.
Forbid non-phantom prims or ban-lines in 16m plots? The farmers make bigger plots. This is the same work-around that they would use against a restriction on 16m or any small plots.

The largest impact of ad farms is their visual impact on nearby landowners. If that impact can be removed then the business model will collapse.


While waiting for that blessed day, I think it's ok to do the "wrong" thing occasionally.
I can't stand absolutism. It's one of the few things that I'm absolute about.

While waiting for that blessed day, anyone and everyone is welcome to go to the SE corner of Dunnylun (or a little W of the corner to be picky about it).
Lovely moon on a Linden ocean.
Hop into a canoe on your own or with a friend, and paddle off to explore or just sit out and chat in the middle of a generally empty collection of water sims.

Even you Hax. It might calm your soul a bit. We all have one hidden somewhere.




I say this in the knowledge that some sicko who has since built one of his signature cowpats in the interior of the sim could well
1) buy a nearby expensive 512 on the boundary of the Linden water
2) carve off a row of four 16s on the boundary - or just carve a 64 for a bit of cloaking
3) join 4 of his interior 16m plots to what's left of the 512 in order to bring it up to 512m
4) put that "512" on the market at bot prices or at a bargain price to entice an innocent looking for waterfront
5) pop up his signature spinners on the front row of 16s as soon as the "512" is sold.

Now that might be more of a runner for "self-defeating".

I think you overestimate the number of people doing it out of ignorance.

I think a lot of people know that paying off the adfarmers gives them the money to open new adfarms elsewhere.

SO either they do it out of lack of concern for the rest of the community and only care about their own view. In which case they are selfish.

Or they do it think that the adfarmer will go away entirely after getting this score - Which is STUPID.

So basically they are either Ignorant, Selfish or Stupid.

Take your pick.



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Why that is worse than saying people did something stupid, Ill never know.