How have you been griefed?

Yes, understood Mickey. The Survival Kit does deal with sexually-motivated griefing, but also with more general forms of abusive behaviour.


Agreed also. I don't see myself as a "weak" person, but I know that I have been hurt, here, and in-world. It's just part of being human. I can deal with it, as can most people. The point of the Survival Kit isn't to "coddle"; it's to forearm and forewarn people (specifically, but not exclusively women) so that they are better equipped to handle the dumb shit when (or if) it happens. In other words, it's intended to help make them stronger, not to "celebrate" in any way their potential victimhood.


Again, agreed. And, again, the Survival Kit (which, as I've said, I also give to men precisely for the reasons you give here) wasn't created under the assumption that people are necessarily weak. It was created to help them be strong and self-sufficient. Knowledge is the ultimate weapon: that's what the Kit is really about.

I take your point about "taking away some of the original awe and wonderment." The Kit tries to make the point early on that SL HAS all of that; it attempts (I hope, somewhat successfully) to maintain a balance between celebrating the potential of the app, and arming women to deal with some of the issues that will potentially arise within it. Interestingly, I was recently contacted by someone who wants to use the Kit as part of a course on "SL Safety." I initially directed him to the "updated" version, and then hesitated, because that same Wiki contains materials that do not reflect very well upon SL. His response to my suggestion that he use, for that reason, the older version, was essentially that, sadly, SL does after all feature some fairly horrendous content and behaviours. Thinking about it, I decided he was right: it WOULD be "coddling" to deliberately censor the materials about SL to which the newbie is exposed.


Yep. Agreed.

The space/time continuum will go right along and parentheses and I get along just fine.

It's the combination of the redundant signature and the 'witty' last jab.

It conjures the mental image of you leaving, then popping your head back through the window to say, "So there!".

As for forum police, I would not presume to take up that cross.
I'm just a forum civilian with her fair share of pet peeves.
You epitomize a few of them.
That is all

Whyspe (totally ignoring the fact that my name appears to the left of every post I make.)

See how annoying that is?

Yes...the TOS and forum guidelines probably prevent that in the harshest cases (if they were actually used).....

....but as general behavior stands now.....what gives you that right?

Nasty Names? Intelligence Insulted? Presumed Gullible?

You have a right not to have that happen to YOU? What about the other people? I feel like I have a right not to watch it, and not to accept it.....and call it out.

Just don't forget to close your parentheses (or else reality will have a stack-heap overflow

lol! Do you know how hard that is to look at?

I don't. I just enjoy dishing his bullshit up and serving it back to him with a parsley garnish, as I have done with other "bullies" I have encountered. I find it amusing if a bit cathartic.



So? You're his "friend". He treats you differently as a result. Why is that such a surprise?



You have the right to be friends with anyone you choose; I certainly will not argue that. However, you're not simply "defending your right to be friends", you're defending the (mis)behavior of a friend, which has proven to be quite indefensible. That's the difference.

I'll add that I haven't called you any nasty names, insulted your intelligence, or presumed you are gullible. I admit that you may very well know EXACTLY what Pep is doing, how it is affecting other people, and not have any problem with it.



Well, you DID and CONTINUE to claim that you can moderate Pep's behavior towards you. I was mainly curious if you thought it possible to extend to others. He is, after all, your "friend", right? I know that, if I saw someone I called a "friend" going a little over the top, I might have a little talk with him in private maybe to get him to realize it and maybe tone it down a little. However, it seems like you consider his behavior somehow always "acceptable" (except sometimes when it is directed your way), and you appear to defend it.

Back when we first sparred over this "issue", you attempted to use various means in private conversation to attenuate my behavior towards Pep, so I think it is only natural to presume that you have at least a notion that your words might hold sway over others, especially a so-called "friend".

Now, if you feel that impression is somehow wrong, I would point out that I am not the only one here holding it, so, if it is indeed a problem with communicating your meaning and intent, I would look more towards the writer, and less towards the readers.

What does this say? An intelligent woman starts a thread on an interesting topic with a goal of using the discussion to benefit the Second Life community. That thread, however, has been derailed by a boorish, narcissistic man with nothing meaningful to say, but has nevertheless achieved his goals of drawing all attention to himself and burying intelligent discussion. That is not a circumstance unique to this thread.

There are always two things to remember before replying to nonsense. One, there is no need to state the obvious. Two, every minute you waste on garbage is a minute you are not doing something social, educational, or fun. Don't let someone steal your time from you. Those minutes are precious and you never get them back. Use them for something worthwhile.

As far as I can tell everyone is standing up for their rights, just doing it in very different manners. I just don't have the depths of melodrama required to keep up with this thread. And it has become brutally repetitive and boring, and no, I'm not just saying that to aggravate you.

Kind of hard for you to make that argument when you're freaking out, yourself. Use the tools and use your social skill set....to get over it then....you certainly seem to be in a tizzy. Not always that easy....is it?

Indeed. Cry out, Laurin, about how people treat you the exact same way that Pep treats others. A behaviour which you're happy to defend when it's Pep, yet rail against when it's anybody else.

The difference here, Laurin, and the only difference, is that you aren't the target of Pep's hostility. So of course it's completely different.

My reality has an auto-add-missing-parenthesis safety net.

And what Pep apparently *didn't* do to you was wage a continued and protracted campaign of insults and belittlement towards you until you finally snapped.

But yeah, we should all learn from you on how to ignore Pep's.. wait for it... douchebaggery!

Very true.



Also very true. I figure I am not "wasting" my time, though; at the very least, I find it "fun", a bit social, and definitely educational, albeit in a twisted, social way.

The difference is in the dynamic of the two people involved.



I have challenged 3 points: that anyone who is friends with him and a woman "doesn't have a head on her shoulders", that no, NOT everyone approved of the outburst, and that it wasn't just Pep rather a number of people that don't know when to drop it.



It would be beneath you to call me nasty names or insult my intelligence and I would be very surprised by it. On the other hand, I am not so gullible as to be fodder for Pep's forum battles either. I truly believe the 2 posts covered by the 'outburst' were inexcusable, for any reason. If Pep had been the author, my opinion would be the same. As Treasure said, I saw the posts as they came in, what led to it and what came after. I wouldn't handle things the same way Pep handles things, but he is only one piece of the set. You call one out, then call them all on it.



No, it isn't possible, except in small ways. I have intervened now and again, including in this very thread. I prefer to intervene myself, directly, within the forum though rather than all this sneaky back door manipulation. Pep does as Pep will do. No one's behavior is always acceptable, myself included. I really don't think you have read many of my posts at all.



Pep is a big boy and can handle whatever you throw at him, so have at it if you feel you must. I actually remember it more as you first not believing it was possible anyone could get along with Pep, and then demanding some sort of step by step instruction manual. Now you want me to control him to protect others?

Youi don't need to put friend in quotes, either. There is no confusion about it.

LMAO, of course he didn't. And if he had I wouldn't have told him to take razor blades into the tub or whatever was the first tirade. We argue about all sorts of stuff, but NEVER like that.

"LMAO". You find it funny? What he did (and continues to do) to her?

How you think you would react in a hypothetical situation has no relevance to the mind boggling hypocrisy of you trying to tell us how we should react to him.

I mean, he called you "thin" for God's sake. That's horrible!

1. Self replicating spinning particle-emitting sound-spamming chat-impersonating cubes overrunning my home and the sim it was in. Sat down, turned off build and object entry, and tried to tell my on-line neighbors how to do the same until the estate owner could get there.

2. Verbally harassed and fired at by an idiot in a police uniform while shopping. My power ring's shields handled his (harmless in a non-damage area anyway) bullets, but the fact that I seemed to be able to defend myself scared him off.

3. Spammed by BloodLines vampires. Told them what I thought of room temperature humanoid ticks and muted them.

4. Responded to calls for help from a club owner who had two idiots firing cage guns all around his club. Taunted them into pursuing me while they were ARed. Turned out they were the owners of the competing club in the sim.

5. Had a member of a "Mafia" show up in my home demanding I pay him to avoid being griefed. Identified for him all the members of his group, froze him, pointed out how powerless he was, froze him, and banned him. Not seen since.

My conclusion is that most griefers react just like bullies: they run scared from a target able to fight back.

)

Yes. Better?

I think you are right. Hence the value of teaching noobs how to fight back.

I LOVED that the idiots firing the cage guns were from a competing club!! Unfair business practices?

It's interesting to hear so often in this thread about the SL "Police"; also, your story about the "Mafia" is the second instance I've seen here of someone demanding "protection money." This is probably important because I suspect that many noobs would be taken in by these kind of absurd impostures.

As for Bloodlines . . .

/me sighs happily as the hole in the space time continuum closes.

Ever since the first Internet message boards appeared, the common-sense rule has been clear:

DON'T FEED THE TROLL

But...that rule is ignored, again and again. Sometimes because people just haven't figured out that their attempts to put down the troll are delighting him instead, but more often because they are bored and eagerly anticipate fireworks.



(Amazing how well this fits the topic of the thread. Well, okay, it's not an exact fit--griefing inworld does have some characteristics that forum-trolling lacks, and vice versa.

(Now THERE'S a good advanced-degree thesis...)

Thanks Laurin, but I have warned you that however rational you are (yes, everyone, it *is* possible, even if you are of the female gender) the rabble here are not interested in listening to anyone's voices but their own, ploughing their own lonely little furrows of misperception and bigotry, occasionally joining hands and looking for a little camaraderie in the face of honest opinions that they do not wish to accept, preferring to live by the fraudulent, deceptive and ultimately self-defeating maxim of "If you can't say anything nice, say nothing." My poll confirmed that most people here agree with my philosophy of "If you can't say anything nice, tell the truth."

Most of those who have felt the sting of my tongue in the past seem to be queueing up to join the "it must be Pep's fault" bandwagon without stopping to worry about the horrendous person that they are supporting to do this, excusing her on the basis that she was "driven to it". I must be a very effective manipulator, mustn't I, if across the internet, using nothing but text and a few hackneyed smilies, I have such influence over the lives of others. I can feel the jealousy as I watch the posts appear on my screen as the less successful attention whores reflect on their own failings without appreciating the bathos with which their every utterance is redolent.

The postings of the last couple of hours would be making me smile if it were not for my underlying compassion for the desperate personalities who, by comparison, have been making Laurin appear a paragon of reason with a sense of proportion, which description she would probably not recognise, particularly coming from my lips.

I'm off to watch [ spooks ] now (he says, doing a Jig) but feel free to whinge on repetitively and aimlessly in my absence again - and be *very* careful not to criticise Rhonda; she might get upset with you.

Pep (Actually, I lied about the smiling and compassion; I have been ROFLMAO!)

No, sorry for the confusion - the griefer was wearing the HUG attachment, originally with the usual HUG animation active. Having once HUGGED his victim, he then selected a different animation. All the time he did not remove the attachment, andthe permission to animate remained active.

Oh hell. HE was wearing it, and it continued to affect the victim? Yikes!!!

You're copping my argument.



While that may be, the gist and tone of your responses are more defensive of Pep's behavior and more derisive of those he was harassing. You even hand-wave a great deal of it with the comment "Pep is mean. No shocker. Threatening? LMAO.".



If you gave me reason for it, it likely would come to pass. The talons, fangs, and fiery breath aren't just for show, you know. People who like to play at that level I have no trouble obliging.



I think quite a few of Pep's posts are "inexcusable", and people do regularly "call him out" on them. It doesn't matter to him, of course.



I would and do, for sure. Why the reservation on doing so for Pep, then? From your own words, you make it sound like it is funny and acceptable for Pep to act the way he does.

Most reasonable people would admit fault, realizing that they share the blame for prodding someone into an outburst like that. I know I would apologize if I harangued someone into that level of a response, but then again, I'm not Pep.



Well, do you not consider your private conversation with me to be "sneaky back door manipulation", or is that a recent change in stance?



When it comes to Pep, it is more like "rarely acceptable".



Why is it important? I read the ones to which I am responding. Are they somehow vastly different than all the other ones? <.<



I am sure. It's not so much of a matter of "must". Most of the time, I ignore him, since he tends to keep to himself in threads in which I don't read/participate. However, if he decides to assert his more odious habits right under my nose, I might find myself inclined to spar with him a bit.



I made a statement of incredulity, based on experience with Pep, and you decided to challenge me on it. You made outlandish claims of how easy it was for other people to "get along with Pep", and I asked you to prove it. When you couldn't figure out how to elaborate it, I asked you to simplify it. Ultimately, it ended up being pretty much what you just said here in this thread, more or less "suck it up", or "put him on ignore". As you have already surmised, "putting him on ignore" doesn't really work, since people will be more than happy to continue sparring with him ad infinitum, quoting and/or responding to his messages endlessly. As a result, we're left with "suck it up", but never the option of "Hey, Pep, can you tone it down a bit?". Obviously that option isn't on the table, either, because he lives to hear it, giving vindication to his asshattery, no matter how sincere the plea, and inspiring him for even more of the same.



Maybe not on your part.