Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

And from your last sentence did you gain any experiences over the likely numbers of men playing females in those roles?

We had a lot of men posing as females in our sim (a high number, 70-80%) who wanted to be dominated, wanted plenty of sex, often brutal sex, and left when we found out who they really were, or when we declined.

Rock

OK, let's try that. Skell's questions, answered - as you stated up there ("So that should answer your questions to me" - with your replies:

I asked: So all rape fantasies are not equal?
You replied: Yes

I asked: Some rape fantasies are more acceptable than others?
You replied: Yes

I asked: It's OK to fantasise about rape, as long as the rapist is good-looking?
You replied: Yes


Now let's reverse it:


You asked: Would you agree that the overwhelming majority of women's rape fantasies are very much different to male fantasies, of rape, torture, mutilation and murder?

I reply: I cannot agree with that because I have not asked the overwhelming majority of women exactly what their rape fantasies are. Nor would I dream of speaking for them, or assuming they cannot speak for themselves, individually. Also, your question was loaded. You asked about female 'rape fantasies' and then compared it with male 'rape, torture, mutilation and murder' fantasies. You've using over-emotive rhetoric there.

You asked: Would you agree that the number of women that ever try to live out their rape fantasies in RL is close to zero?

I reply: As above, I cannot agree with that because I have not interviewed any women to ask them if they have ever tried to live out their rape fantasies in RL, therefore I wouldn't know if it was zero. And I will not accept as evidence a link to an article written by some woman who organised mass destruction of magazines and books she and her kind did not approve of in bookstores (cf: Melissa Farley, one of your cited sources, and Nikki Craft, both organisers of the National Rampage Against Penthouse).

You asked: Would you agree that the rape, torture, mutilation and murder of women is a worldwide problem?

I reply: Rape, torture, mutilation and murder in general is a worldwide problem, and is not limited to women-only.

Yet your quoted single example "studies" conducted by biased researchers who are pushing their own political agendas are suppose to prove YOUR claim?

At least we're both tied at zero for FAIL, then.

Sadly, the statistics you probably want to see don't exist, because the parts of the world where the greatest amount of "WTF?" is happening don't like to keep records of it. But even then, you probably wouldn't believe any of the reports unless the victims were to voice-verify for you.

BTW, I'm buggering off out of this thread now. I'm bored with it

Yes there are men playing women in Gor, highest amount is guessed to be within the panther role, some say as high as 50%. Some slaves also, but really Gor isn't about brutal sex so anyone coming for that wont stay long and move on to other types of sims.

1) No, but your phrasing here makes this a loaded question akin to "Have you recently stopped beating your wife?" Your questions asks one to compare apples to apples, oranges, peaches, and bananas.

2) No. I've not polled every woman in the world on this, but I have heard enough first-hand accounts and I know enough about probability and statistics to say that the given the sample set, there's little chance the true value is "close to zero."

3) Yes, but I believe it's more of a problem in some parts of the world than others, and I believe the root cause lies within issues of culture and religion.

It is true that many crimes are either under-reported, not collected, or not released by authorities. However, a certain amount of extrapolation can be drawn from from the mandatory statistics gather by the UN from each country.

e.g.

Intentional Homicide Rates, per 100,000 (collected in either 2003 or 2004)

United States: 5.5
Iran: 2.93
Syria: 1.14
Saudi Arabia: 0.96
United Arab Emirates: 0.63
Oman: 0.59

Rock

What does murder rates have to do with depictions of rape?

Use relevant numbers, of course the UN can not get accurate numbers of the relevant crimes because they are under reported

Of course, reminds me of how someone found in a canal in japan died of natural causes... in this case drowning while having a couple cinder blocks strapped to him.

Comment: I haven't seen anyone here say that violence towards women is fine. The general feel I get is that most people think that they are avatars and there is no actual violence.

Question: If you believe everyone that wants this is a man playing a woman, why are you talking about violence against women anyway? Shouldn't this thread be about violence against men?

Comment: I higher percentage will admit to enjoying some recreational bondage/spankies/etc ... over the internet. Thats a given ... the topic just doesn't come up as much offline.

1) There is plenty of literature on this though Jezebella. For example, "Force in Women's Sexual Fantasies", Donald S. Strassberg, Lisa K. Lockerd; Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 27, 1998



Discussed here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_43/ai_n17094104/

2) Again, there is ample data (unlesss you insist that ever women in the wolrd needs to be polled before you will believe any study or statistics)



same source.

3) Interesting. Culture I can believe. Do you have any data for the perception that religion plays a part? That would imply that in agnostic countries the numbers of rapes and other assaults on women would be lower. Is that indeed the case, or are you alluding to one religion in particular?

Rock

PS I apologise over the phrase 'close to zero'. I was thinking in percentage terms, where I believe the figure is close to zero, ie a fraction of 1%, not in terms of absolute numbers.

Sorry, I know most of the people posting in this thread. None of us would support murder, rape, or slavery. But then none of those things actually happen in SL.

Funny how you don't add your own perversion to the list. There was a wise man many years ago who told a story about not worrying about the mote in your neighbor's eye when you have a log in your own. Maybe you should look it up.

Hah. Again we have the implication that if you oppose suppressing something you must be guilty of it.

Shenanigans!

Niemoller!

Hitler!

What would be wrong with her alluding to one religion in particular? All religions are not equal just as all cultures are not equal. No matter what the relativists say.

So you would support the right of two men, one in a child avi, being raped by the other in a male avi, in SL, because it is not 'actually happening'? Answer that one directly please.

Rock

Nothing wrong at all, but it would then give me the opportunity to see if the available data backs up her perception.

Rock

Don't you get it, mate, what adults do in bed is none of your fucking business.

Go and raise money for the rape crises center in your town or something...

Not at all (again you assume too much sir). The problem as the OP sees it, and I concur, is one of unhealthy, violent male attitudes towards women.

In this regard (attitudes being the core of the problem) it is not just the attitudes of the perpetrators, but the attitudes of the apologists as well that need to be addressed.

Rock

Directly please.

Rock

Would the ones looking to ban answer this: Do you know the difference between reality and fantasy?

Directly of course

He doesn't get it.

What is actually happening?

There are two adults (gender doesn't matter) using a computer. The computer produces cartoon images. The act of using a PC in this way isn't forbidden in any country I know of since there are only consenting adults involved. It is the produced *images* that are banned in *some* countries, like Germany for example. They are not banned in other countries, like in the US. The laws of these countries regard the produced images as *pornography*, others don't. Child pornography is banned, so child av pornography is banned too. Since SL has huge amounts of European users they banned age play. IMHO it was a very reasonable decision. If I owned SL I would do the same.

It is really as simple as that.

Either answer the questions put to you, or drop out of the debate. You are not worth debating with.

One last chance, answer the question directly (scared??), or join the other idiot in my Ignore bin, who only likes to ask questions, not to answer them.

Rock

If both are adults, yes. Do I want to see it? No. Do I want to take part in it? No.

If either of them attempt to commit the real thing, with an actual child, I am also in favor of a public hanging. Supposing the child's father didn't find them first.

You have actually dodged most of the questions put to you, or answered them with something not topical.

Just saying ...

But if it was not banned in certain countries, you would argue, well that's alright then, let it stay? No question of your own personal morality here?

Rock