The Answer is "NO"

At last! Some insight!

Pep (Much good it will do you)

Weedy has swapped with me on two occasions, to the edge of parcels and I know she has swapped with many others to, it is clear from the thread that Weedy was abused so decided to ignore all further requests, something that I fully understand and a line I would also follow.

Having spoken with Weedy in the past she can be very prickly and comes across badly on occasions, which can lead to misunderstanding.

The activities of Blue Button Holding are something I find very interesting, mainly because they are so secretive, LOL. It's a little bit of intrigue, I don't really care what they actually do and would probably be disappointed if I actually ever found out.

It seems the land has now been swapped to the edge of Sim by LL, which does make sense really.

This issue seems to be more about Ewan's abuse toward Weedy and subsequent underhand actions to get his way, once he had put weedy's back up, than the taking of the land.


Dave please don't punish others for one persons actions, your group has always been fair with land swaps in the past and I hope such negotiations will contunue soon.

Ewan I think holding out the olive branch would be a good move for you, your group may wish Weedy to do swaps on parcels in the future, given your SL business.

Mr Jack Linden is only the Mainland Estate Manager for LL. He doesn't set policy for SecondLife. The Board of Directors does. The Board has told its employees to clean up all of SecondLife (lots going on in last few months ya. Not just on mainland). This is the New Policy. Clean it up. Mr Mitch Kapor announced this New Policy last year. And any employee of LL who cant, wont or doesnt know how to implement the New Policy has been let go. And new employees have been hired who will and do.

Part of the New Policy is to make SL mainland more presentable to parcel residents, not just parcel owners. Is a distinction here that some people are missing. Residents ya, as in people who reside.

Also. There are two markets at work here. The inworld one and the outworld one. The outworld market being the Tier and Fees that Premium Account-holders pay. While they are co-dependent, the outworld market is far more important than the inworld one.

The New Policy in action here ya affecting you personally. One person owns whole sim except for a donut. That donut devalues the entire sim in the eye of prospective buyers. What buyers ??? Out-world ones. Intending Tier-paying Premium Account Holders who will live and work on the land. So is not a contest. LLs out-world market interests outweigh their and in this case your inworld interests. Mr Ewan Mureaux just happens to be a beneficiary in this instance, but thats incidental to LL. It could have been anyone in his situation. As easily as someone else could have been in your situation as well.

The micro-parcels on the mainland going to be obliterated. Is policy. Mr Jack Linden said this in his statement. He said that LL (the Board) wants the mainland repaired. Put back into larger parcels. To make it more presentable to existing parcel residents to live on, and to attract new fee and tier paying account-holders who will also reside on the land, as opposed to just owning it and paying tier.

Stopping land-cutting was only part of the New Policy implementation. Rejoining micro-parcels is not a separate policy. Is the same one. So.

Mr Jack Linden said he would prefer people to work out their issues with their neighbours themselves, But if we dont then he and his team will work it out for us. As you have found out. Under the new policy LL doesnt want people to pay tier on empty sims. Not forever and a day. Empty tier paid sims all by themselves add no resident value to SL as far as the Board is concerned. If it was just about Tier then Land Linden would still be flipping land as soon as it gets abandoned like he did in the olden days. He dont do that anymore.

Mr Desmond Shang ask a poll about mainland value in other thread. About the money value. Is another question though not asked. More important to mainland parcel owners. What value does a micro-parcel network add to LL when prospective Account-holders are put off buying large parcels for residential purposes, nearly whole sims even, because of the presence of micro-parcels on sim or on edges of sim next door ???

Is a tough question true for owners of existing micro-parcel landholdings and networks. I 'own' my land isnt the answer anymore under the New Policy.

Is something that will have to be taken up with the LL Board if you want the policy reverted. Mr Jack Linden and G-Team dont set policy for SecondLife. They just implement it.

And once more I say: No land was taken, land was swapped. At least, if I read the thread right. One micro parcel swapped for another one. Something your group said to do voluntary. And because of your refusal to do so with this parcel owner, no matter the reason behind that refusal, LL did it for you. So what is the problem?

You are right Neptune. It's not really fair to others to cut them off. They are not party to this dispute. Those who want to ask for a trade in good faith, should. In fact, I IM'd a couple of our regulars and conveyed that very message.

Something has to give though, somewhere, because from our current standpoint, LL has grossly misrepresented themselves and it's not right we should bear the brunt of it while they expect us to supend our operations pending a decision.

So yes, we hear you Neptune, it would be the right thing to do, to invite requests again, especially now that we've cooled off somewhat. Our complaint against Linden Lab stands though.

Well, you guys ARE listening. I thought those notecards were falling on deaf ears.

And I gotta admit--That was a reasonable response to someone who basically took a stand against you, and for fairly selfish reasons.

Yes I've had dealings with Weedy in the past, We've swapped parcels a few times. And she WAS polite. Tho, a bit reluctant on one occasion.

I guess I really don't have an issue with Dave or Weedy--Just micro parcels in general, and the clandestine nature of their business.

Obviously Dave feels their backs are against the wall, and they're fighting for survival. I'm sure there are a lot of you out there who have lost businesses, or seen their profitability vanish because the Lindens changed the rules on us.

BTW, when it comes to outlasting other residents, I haven't been around as long as Weedy and Dave, but I've outlasted three other data miners, three clubs, a mall, at least two advertising networks, about a half dozen shops--including a sex animation store, and perhaps half a dozen ad farmers, including the incrutable "Mr. Lee." (BTW, he's the one I would place the blame for the birth of micro parcel extortion.) My list of over two dozen land owners in the sim has been whittled down to 6--Including me and the gov, and BBH. Might seem like nothing to you folks who have seen kilometers of cut up plots, but I did it myself, legally, ethically, and patiently. Even at its worst, it wasn't ever quite a typical zoo sim, (tho it was close.) and you'd understand my passion if you'd ever seen the sunset over the lake, or sailed into it.

Congratulations Dave! This seems an extremely civilised and reasonable post, and I am sure that neutral sympathies have now swayed in your direction.

Pep (May I suggest that next time you count to ten before starting a thread like this. Then ask a question rather than start a rant? )

We just got a reply from Jack, and we're hopping mad again.

Our comittment to neighbors still stands though, so if anyone has a request, please do.

I won't quote what Jack said, but suffice it to say, it's reprehensible and highly objectionable and must not stand.

Wow, what a thread! Looks as if this is sorting itself out. (Fortunately for me, while all this was playing out, I was otherwise engaged--on a Blog challenge from Prok , may God forgive me.)

But amidst all the High Drahma, a couple of things I found quite remarkable:
How the heck does one go about getting "hidden from view", I wonder. I mean, if one could turn this on and off at will, it could be the greatest invention since point-to-point teleports!

People keep citing this case, but (with apologies to Inigo Montoya) I don't think it means what they think it means. I'd suggest that anybody citing this case in future first be very sure they understand the extremely limited scope of what was actually decided in court.

Perhaps the point in this current citation is more subtly accurate--kind of a legal "butterfly wing" suggestion, that a small technicality can cause all manner of kerfuffle, in which case, carry on. Other, broader claims that this case invalidated important points in the ToS are just wishful thinking.

Completely off-topic, but that "butterfly wing" thing is not without merit. One often sees threats of "class action" against our service provider. If one really wanted to effect change, however, one wouldn't futz around with a multi-year action that's sure to benefit lawyers much more than all claimants combined, when instead a few hundred modest filings in small claims court would actually force a policy reversal. But "class action lawsuit" sounds so much more impressive--especially if one is collecting real funds for a role-played lawyer.

This ^^^

That's easy. You close your account and use another

ETA:
Cancel that. Weedy's profile still shows from the All search but not from the People tab search. How is that done?

I have an alt that doesn't show to me either in people search is it a fluke or something that can be set in some way?

Hmmm lotta people butthurt over the rules being enforced, not good karma.

You must know them better then I do. To be honest I do not have a clue how (dis)agreeable Weedy and Dave are. Weedy did not even post in the thread, though was mentioned more then enough. And this thread does not show Ewan to be a griefer. Ewan had a disagreement with The group Dave represents, and both sides told their story. The truth lies somewhere in between, as usual.

One thing I do agree with: No one lost anything. Dave keeps on telling that LL took land form him but they did not. They swapped, something his group claims to do anyway. Only because they were in a disagreement, Dave finds it a problem that LL did so. Well, they enforced a policy, by undertaking an action that his group would do anyway. So here is no problem.

Wow, come to work, take a peep at the forums only to find this. Printing this out so I can have some interesting reading during my lunch break.

Just in case...IBTL!

All shows historical results, search for an ex-linden and they will show in all but not people. Canceled and banned accounts still show in all, don't know if that's a bug or a feature. Canceled accounts probably wouldn't have any groups though, in fact can you even explicitly cancel an account or do you just stop using it?

Weedy, along with Reverend Herzog, Sarah Nerd and Joy Iddinja executed a well organised campaign of harassment against me in early 2007. Perhaps it's unfair to paint Dave with the same brush but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/02/21/first-land-program-to-end#comment-678775

The script referred to in this post which I believe Weedy wrote (but either way she definitely distributed it) still exists today in hundreds of mainland locations including fairly close to my store in Steamboat and causes my viewer to crash if I'm not careful to avoid: /327/d5/173403/1.html#post1449355

I could probably dig up some chat logs of Weedy insulting me, and my entire RL family with the foulest imaginable language.

For now all I have are these very mild posts on the forums that were part of her campaign of hatred.

/142/ec/172209/1.html#post1442973

/142/ec/172209/1.html#post1442676

/13/c3/163207/9.html#post1438566

/142/25/171107/2.html#post1435922

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/

I've dealt with Weedy in the past, and she has been professional and reasonable. I don't necessarily approve of her business model, but I do approve of the way she's engaged in it in the past. I am inclined to believe that you were responsible for deliberately making this look like a microparcel extortion situation, and that puts the onus on you to be a man and apologize.

She shouldn't have been pig-headed, really, but I can understand that.

You shouldn't have been an ass.

Now you're playing a strange game. Whoever loses wins. If Weedy accepts the parcel in trade and goes back to business as normal you get so much egg on your face.

The best way for you to minimize the damage is to give up.

Indeed, but he has no obligation to be friendly, either. If you're going to pretend that all this childishness was the result of your upholding some kind of principle, then you must take some ownership in the results.

Look, you alluded to it yourself earlier in this thread when you talked about how much "abuse and griefing" your group gets - the fact is, people don't like your group. They don't like what you do - holding on to 16m plots and running data mining scripts in sims where you own not a single other plot of land. It is indeed very much like landcutter and "The New Adfarmer" behavior. You claim to be different for some reason, but you refuse to explain why because it's a "secret" - so why should anybody believe you? What reason have you given anyone for why your group absolutely -must- have a 16m plot right smack in the middle of their land? Yeah, people are going to be upset with you, and they're going to tell other people what they think of your business. That's just the nature of the business you choose to engage in, and you're going to have to put up with it unless you give people something more tangible than "it's a secret".

LL gave you another 16m plot in the same sim that wasn't a doughnut hole in somebody else's land. Is there any particular reason why the 16m plot they gave you is somehow worth less than the one they switched? Can't you still run your spy scripts from the new 16m plot just as well? The only "damage" your group has taken has been in the form of pride for having lost your private war; and now once again you have the opportunity to "be the adult" and move on - but according to you "this isn't over". How exactly is it not over? What do you intend to do? What on earth do you think you CAN do? I suppose you could start more threads complaining about it - I've done that with Bloodlines - but it's a bit ironic that you take this Ewan to task for having the "audacity" to come and whine on the forums when you're the person who started this thread. I get the distinct impression none of us would ever have known anything about this mess if YOU hadn't come here and started a thread about it.

Wait wait - you have a 16sqm in the middle of someone's land? There's a word for that you know... oh what's that word again? Was it used in another post yet in this thread? It's been used in others I know.

If you find this thread entertaining, stand by for implementation of the new adult content policy. That's going to stir things up like nothing that's gone before.

I've read 95% of this thread and I have to side with Dave/Weedy. Ewan comes of looking very dishonest to me.

If you are basing the side you chose from this thread, I find it not a very smart move to side with anyone. Both parties tell their version, and the truth lies somewhere in between. No evidence is given, and a verdict based on "it looks that" are never smart moves. Just saying.

I'm missing your point here. If the 16M was there for five years the only word for it is "Land Owner". Ok.. that's two words, but you get my point.

What else would I base it on? I don't know either party. Each had an equal oppurtunity to present themselves in this thread. Dave won, in my opinion.