The Answer is "NO"

You live in cloud cuckoo land. Last year in an entirely different sim (continent even) i asked for a trade and was told the same as dytska regarding value of plots, so I pointed out that it was a bit deceitful showing this glowing public face of healing the land when in fact swaps would not be made. That area in Shark was beyond repair so it got dumped to bots. Then a month ago weedy pipes up about doing swaps in the Arbor chat, again i point out that the swapping policy isn't that clear cut and takes in perceived value (how something can have value if you never want to sell it is beyond me) and I was called a number of nasty things, I offered the chat log and was AR'd for disclosure, offering to disclose the fact which is something both of you have a problem with. On the 22nd we bought another plot with a stupid hole in it so requested a swap. I have never attempted to purchase or build doors anywhere near you, I have more important things to do. Again, the facts are much better than hot air. If only I could find a non-LL venue to publish the facts so I can stay within TOS, I wonder.......

Nope. I would do anything from laugh to ask how much your offer was.

However, I don't have a standing policy as part of my current business to do parcel swaps, either.

I'm sure you're right, but that's not what I said.

I said that a reasonable request from an unreasonable person is still a reasonable request.

He's unreasonable if he's made unreasonable demands in the past. That's in the past. A trade is reasonable now.

You openly advocated distibuting notecard converstations with Weedy. That makes you a griefer by definition.

You didn't question the value thing, you doubted our history of working with the community to help with the issue. You came right out and said "Weedy, you caused the whole adcutter problem"

Yet another reason why you are muted.

Since when is filing frivolous ARs by manipulating terraform (yesterday) reasonable?

Since when is cajoling Lindens to take our land without notice reasonable?

That's all in the past.

I think it is likely that a lot of things were said "in the heat of the moment" that weren't really meant by either side. That's pretty typical; I know have had my share of those moments, both on the giving and receiving end. I certainly don't believe that you all "caused" the adcutter problem. I mean, if there actually WAS any ONE person who could be pegged to have "caused" it, it would have been Lazarus what's-his-name; the "Impeach Bush" guy.

As Argent says, though; it's in the past. You said you would have done what the end result that came to pass represents anyway. Stop antagonizing each other over it, shake hands, and let it go. You're both valuable members of the Arbor project, and good SL residents. More to the point, rescind the posture punishing everyone else over it. No good will come of it, just more drama that you claim you loathe.

Or not; it's merely my suggestion(s) at this point. I just think that continuing it is more for propagating the drama and spectacle than actually solving any particular problem. *shrug*

Weedy left the Arbor Project as a result of that attack. After the many years of good faith donations to the group, she didnt need to hear those types of attacks from him AND another senior officer of the group.

The whole bone of contention here, is Linden Lab. Ewan is only the straw that broke the camel's back over a much broader issue.

This is not an isolated incident. Every single day Talarus, we are swamped with the same demands. Ever since the new rules, they are vague in scope and cause residents to get a wrong impression about us. Alot of these are IM's with the co-ordinates of where and who to set the land to.

We cannot even return the IM with our policy, because a greater amount of people lately will hear nothing of it. They just have in in our head that we are in violation of the rules and if we dont comply to their demands, they abuse report us.

I doubt anyone would enjoy being threatened with frivolous AR's every day would be every impressed with Linden Lab.

Rather than deal with us, they are misleading us and they are misleading the community at large.

Where I come from, next week means next week not next month, or whenever of if ever they decide to deal with it. Expecting us to suspend our operation for months on end, while they sit on their hands is totally unacceptable. Moreover, taking land away from us without notice only added fuel to the fire.

We warned LL about Lazarus a long long time ago. As a result that falling on deaf ears, we earned a few Umniks and ROBOs.

It's just wrong at every level to feed us to the dogs like they have, when we broke no rules and made a huge effort to be community oriented.

This has come to head. We see no solution to it. In fact it's MUCH worse lately, even though we are willing to work with a solution, whatever it may be.

You did strike a chord about how we treat the community though, when someone at LL attempts to keep their word with us, land trades will resume. The ball is in their court though.

So your basically holding everyone to ransom until you hear from Linden Labs?

Geeeee...be expecting a LOT more abuse reports then.

Advocating frivolous ARs? Seems that's alot worse than demanding someone turn over their land, or worse yet, taking someone's land without notice.

So be it.

Ugh, that really stinks. Words can't express what I'm feeling right now...


I can't stand people who are so stubborn as to think that whatever they do is the logical decision, simply because THEY did it. Would they do something like this in RL? Of course not. So why would they do it in SecondLife? Because they CAN. Ugh, that really says something about the world... The only reason we haven't all killed each other yet is because we can't.

Wow, so much drama over a 16 that actually was not taken, only relocated. Makes you wonder what would happen over an issue of real importance.

Was not aware that LL had merged the main grid with the pre school grid.

Umm. . .Might seem petty of me, but honestly, I really don't like BBH.

16m plots get in the way. The catch vehicles because they're automatically full. They ruin parcel borders. And God only knows what those scripts are doing. BBH certainly isn't talking about it.

I worked HARD to clean up the sim I'm a majority land holder in. Bought cut up parcels. Sweated auctions where I knew I was up against land cutters.

Guess how many parcels in my sim under 1k. Guess who is adamantly refuses to do anything about it.

I've been polite and civil with my "neighbor." Certainly never got involved in any griefing tactics over it. But it's an annoyance at best, and the secrecy surrounding the whole thing in unnerving. I don't like it, and I'm not terribly sympathetic over the problems they've been having running their secret business. I'm entitled to an opinion and that's it.

/me pulls out his patented "Cardboard Box Fort" to protect himself

I know what you mean.

As a scripter and builder of vehicles, and as a racer/team leader in SL's AntiGravity Racing Association, it's important that every precaution is taken to reduce the probability of a vehicle getting stuck or unresponsive.


I once tried to fly across one of the mainland continents in one of my airplanes. Everything was fine, except for the final approach to Abbotts Aerodrome... Someone had set their small parcel (which happened to be directly in front of the runway) to no-access.


Even the autopiloted flights departing from the airport were getting stuck in it.



I don't mind if people want to own land for themselves. In fact, I encourage it. But when they set their mainland parcels to no-access or limit scripts and rezzing abilities, it really makes me angry. If you're going to buy a mainland parcel, it should be an understood fact that the occasional passer-by might run into it. What's the point of cutting yourself off from the vast world around you?

when he raised the land you should simply have covered the hole with a nicely textured prim and put a few support beams under it, if land was raised it would have looked like a prim in the ground, if it was lowered, like some strange artistic sculpture.

Win win?

Now the precedent has been set and Blue Button's attitude established in public, I predict a *lot* more (successful) requests for enforced trades.

Pep (the OP has shot himself in both feet, it seems)

I guess because I'm a bit bored, but...

You can be a little Blue Button at minimal cost. Form a group and for 8 US dollars a month you can own individual 16's on 105 seperate sims.

Go on. Think big... For a mere 25 US dollars you can own 16's on 281 sims.

Too bored to do the math, but someone might figure out how much it would cost to own a 16 on every mainland sim. Guessing that Blue Button is not one of the major tier resources for LL.

As to the "value" of a 16...Get real. Only value is in relation to how much it screws up the neighborhood. IMHO the smallest viable parcel for occupancy is 256. Smallers have value for special land settings in relation to larger parcels (vendors, entry points, media hotspots, etc...).

Not going to happen. Period.

Even though Guy did not fix what he caused, and left me with a "take it or leave it ultimatum", (which is unacceptable) he clearly indicated he will not do it again without consulting us. Whether he knew it or not, the result was an intervention into a dispute between residents. (which is also unacceptable)

This looks like something of a bad-faith "vicious cycle". According to you, this fellow can't settle this issue with your group until he settles his issues with "Weedy". But, this person can't talk to Weedy because her/your group muted/ignored him, therefore he cannot resolve the "issue". However, you refuse to remove him from ignore and deal with him until he resolves his issue with Weedy, which he cannot do because your group is ignoring him...and so on, and so forth. You've created a closed loop, an unsatisfiable set of conditions. Perhaps this Ewan person is the "asshat" you claim, but it's evident you've had plenty of opportunities to "be the adult" in this long dispute, and it seems to me you were quite determined not to capitalize on any of them. We all have to deal with people we hate on occasion, and you should've looked for an opportunity to trade as soon as the situation started getting ridiculous. But you insisted on holding onto this 16m plot in the middle of a whole region owned by someone else for no other reason than spite. I don't know about the legal/TOS implications of LL forcing your trade - such matters aren't my forte - but I'm having a hard time developing any sympathy for you in this situation.

i read all..
and it seems that the bottom line is that youre using this last case as a leverage (or trying to) against LL, hoping to get some support here on the forums.

but there are several things that dont make sense to me (apart from the drama)

you suspended trading since when?
you still have in writing somewhere out there willing to trade parcels policy?
and why, if BBHC isnt in this for the money but for the community and/or for data garnering whatevers, isnt 16m always equal?
And just because i only get <Bandwidth Limit Exceeded> when i google you.. what data are you mining and what use is it to the community as a whole?

1. A request for a trade/sale does not have to be granted, however reasonable the request, even if it is normally done. Ewan or anyone is not entitled to Dave and Weedy's land. They are not obligated to trade under every circumstance.

2. Terraforming abuse to frame Dave & Weedy is crappy, unethical thing to do. No excuse for that.

3. LL was absolutely wrong to take the land. Since when is that a punishment under the TOS? If they want to punish for abuse, they warn/suspend accounts, NOT confiscate land. They basically intervened on behalf of another resident, and that's a no-no.

In his note to me, he had every opportunity for contrition, but he chose to pick his words carefully to side step the issue. Settling the matter is neither up to me nor Weedy, but is the onus of Ewan. Even after issuing the note, he continued his campaign of constructive abuse reporting and even after getting the land, remains in contempt of our group, even to the degree of exploiting a higher value in this thread to his land as result of misdeeds and rub our noses in it. He broke every rule in the book to acheive this and the Lindens fell for it. He continues to advocate others do the same.

He's nothing but an anti-everything he doesnt believe in and will justify any means to an end. Well I got news for him, this won't die easily.

I made it very clear to Talarus and other in this thread, that had Ewan acted reasonably from the outset or even along the way, this would have never come to head as it has today.

Simply put, we have no obligation to placate griefers. Period

Presicely Cristalle,

We were not notified of the land being taken, and even after it was, no disciplinary action was attributed to it.

The thing everyone is missing and I cannot articulate it enough, this continues across the grid every single day. This is not an isolated incident.

I'm reminded of this post here:

/327/1c/298543/2.html#post2260474



The question applies equally here as well.

That thread makes great reading, btw.

But come on! Tell us what data you gather and what you do with it! If I had you in the middle of my parcel/sim, I'd want to know.