Are Nazi uniforms considered "offensive"?

What people are not looking at is, that Hitler and his gang of thugs took advantage of a lot of fear and anger and whipped it up to a destructive purpose. He was also very successful, and success breeds imitation.

Ironically, many of those who posted with the most anger and raw emotion in this thread, AND WHO DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC PERSONAL REASON FOR IT, (i.e. are merely channeling their own anger in a socially approved direction) are the most vulnerable to having themselves manipulated in a similar way.

Get with the f'ing program and stop chasing after balls and bones that politicians and pundits throw out for you. Don't let yourself get used. That's how you prevent it from happening again. In the 30's and 40's good Germans "protected their society" from the "scourge of Jews", just like some Southeners "protected their society" from blacks, and now there are voices out there calling on us to "protect our society" from Mexicans, Arabs, and empty-headed Liberals. The enemy in all of this is the same: a knee-jerk responsiveness to authoritarianism, and those greedy enough to try and hitch a ride on it.

No; they may be idiots but they are often also violent. They don't need to be made out to be more than they are but they are not harmless.

They don't wander around SL dressed as Nazis though of course, at least not outside of normal-looking re-enactment sims where there are plenty of decent people doing the same thing. I have met neo-Nazis in SL, and they are quite careful not to do that sort of thing, at least in situations where they might be reported.

I agree Ordinal, the ones you describe are dangerous. But like you also said they aren't the ones running around in uniform.

In the US today, if you turn on the news and see one of these groups (the ones in uniform) at a rally, there will usually be 10 of them. 2 will be tweaking on meth. 4 of them will be losers either on their way into or just out of prison. The other 4 will be FBI, ATF or some other Fed agency. Not the sort of group to lead a take over of the government.

The ones in the suits, the ones underground are the ones we must be on guard for.

But I defend all of their rights to speak and act in nonviolent ways. If not we will have the laws we pass to deal with them used on us some day.


In that great play andfilm "A Man for All Seasons," Moore's zealous son in law, William
Roper, says he would, if necessary, cut down all the laws in England
to deal with the devil.

Moore, who soon will die for his Faith, replies: "Oh? And when the last
law was down, and the devil turned round on you, where would you hide,
Roper, the laws being all flat? This country's planted thick with laws
from coast to coast - man's laws, not God's - and if you cut them down
(and you're just the man to do it) d'you really think you could stand
upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the devil
benefit of law, for my own safety's sake."

Chris, it's my turn to buy you a beer.

the treath wasn`t directed at anyone but to those who are stupid enough to come near my neighberhood with stupidity like this

this still affects us on the other hand, my gramps from my dad`s side lost 2 brothers, 1 sister on my mother`s side and lost relatives of wich my dad found 2 of them with a trip to poland about 1.5-2 years ago and god know`s where some others are...

and yea, i know there are so many out there with the same crap, so how can it be dsicussed to have lil wannabe griefers running around in nazi uniforms as it`s clearly for sales and not rp?

it`s the stupidity of this that gets me pissed off like f`ing mad, "oh cool, yea i`ve got some relatives that died to them, lets go all run around sl wearing nazi uniforms", they should know better then anyone what others will think with just the idea about it ffs...

#32 is the grown up. The children are those that want to run around in nazi uniforms and smirkingly call it 'historical recreation' all the while KNOWING how a LARGE section of the player base. Next on the grow up list are the ones so open mided their brains have fallen out that actually ACCEPT that line of BS about historical recreations...or worse, support harassment and imtimidation while sniggering behind 'freedom of speech' claims.

No other reason exists to wear a nazi uniform, off a world war II sim, other than to try to annoy others....which is juvenile behavior at its finest. No, #32 does not need to grow up, but folks like you do, Jax.

#32, my hat's off to you for having the guts to post what you did, in a place where its fashionable to have NO ethical compass and to treat everything as equally acceptable. Nazi uniform makers should have their shops and inventory removed, and their purchasers banned on the spot by LL.

Well, so it's a lot like FL after all. Fancy that.

Ok Maklin, I have a close friend who had his father murdered in one of Castro's "re-education" camps. Can we now start banning Che shirts and the stores that sell them?

You ever see "Motorcycle Diaries?" Awesome movie. But that's beside the point.

Malkin, I really resent being classified as not having an "ethical compass." If I didn't have an ethical compass, I would say that it was TOTALLY OKAY to do what the Nazis did. I would also say that it is totally okay to skin kittens alive and push old ladies off buses. There's a huge difference in having an ethical compass and not condoning censorship.

if this was just SL, i'd stay out of this now..... but this is RL, especially for you (clearly) and so i feel the need to discuss with you.

you are clearly very passionate. we are twins in this regard. i so get you about the passion and FIRE you feel.

but quit making excuses for your bad behavior. it doesn't matter the injustice, you serve it no purpose by continuing. if you want to share your story, it is VERY interesting and i'm sure we'd enjoy the historical facts being told. i would. sounds like many would. but you are not God and you are not the police, and it is very hard to take you seriously when you go on and on with the general threats.

use your intelligence and ability to share a historical plight as a teaching tool, instead of a sword. you might see greater progress with your ultimate goal.

Wouldn't have a problem with that. Again, things like that exist because of juvenile persons out to get their jollies from others pain and annoyance. There's no real legitimate reason for an SS uniform, Che shirt, etc. It costs me NOTHING to consider another human's feelings and avoid doing things that I know will cause them emotional pain. Its called compassion for your fellow man, rather than being self-centered and always demanding the right to be offensive. It is also the difference between the civilized and the barbarian, concern for others welfare.

One of the funniest things I find in SL....furs, who spend an inordinate amont of time bitching about being persecuted and mistreated....have one of the most active 'nazi' groups and producers of uniforms. Their group claims they are just fun-loving historical RPers....however, the ONLY RP I have seen them do is not particularly historical (standing around clubs and bars silently glowering in SS uniforms until asked to leave by admins).

I've been refraining from getting back in this thread but I have to say I agree with you Oryx. I resent my belief in free speech as a most basic principal being classified as being unethical, immoral, insensitive, or that I'm a sympathizer with a group as repulsive as Nazi's.

And Har's comments regarding posturing and playing with words I almost find more offensive than Alicia's remarks. Just because one person isn't able to handle having a healthy debate/discussion as an adult doesn't mean the rest of us should stop.

I am frequently accused of being overly sensitive to others because I don't like seeing people hurt. At the same time, however, I have no use for those that are overly PC. I have yet to find any subject that isn't worthy of discussion in a respectful manner and refuse to tighten my lips because others are unable to do so. Call that posturing all you f___ing want.

not making excuses, and i know, need an vacation, selling the sim will allow that and get back in a quiet corner and get my head straight again (or atleast abit more straight )

just edited those posts and removed the contents tho

Whilst you're at it ban the mentioning of all countries and the flying of their flags because at some point or another there's a good chance they will have pissed someone off and we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Resent it all you want, I stand by my point. You either have no ethical compass or have a very malleble ethical compass.

Censorship is NOT wrong in every instance, though the open-minded to the point their brains fall out crowd tells us that it is. I am sorry, but based on what the Nazi's did, the hate their modern counterparts still spew about minorities and jews, there is NO LOGIC involved in allowing there glorification via allowing ingame SS uniforms....just so one can pat onself on the back and say 'Look at me, I oppose censorship, I'm such a wonderfully open-minded person!'.

You're aiding and abetting these persons gaining acceptance in a society with no real long-term memory and failing educational systems that (often) do not teach the whole horror that the nazi symbolism represents, and thereby supporting this is making it more and more publically acceptable.

You know, someone should take pictures of the nazi uniform stores (they are ingame) and these goose-stepping losers and send them to the media, both domestic and foreign. Notice how fast AGEPLAY got cleaned up when bad press hit....perhaps a bit of negative PR might jar LL into handling nazis ingame as well.

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with that. This is SECOND LIFE, no real reason for US flags, canadian flags, german flags, etc and so on.

I never have forgiven those Italians for the atrocities they did to my ancestors during the attempted Roman conquest of England........................................

Are you after a job in the ministry of truth or something?

Nope, I merely will not support nazi's merely to appeal to the demographic that SL seems to attract (the me, me, me, what I want, my rights, no censorship crowd). Nor am I going to bother wasting my time with more than flippant responses to fools that throw up straw men like flags (and to be honest, in SL, I don't care about flags/countries). Some things are just so flat out...evil...that I find myself faced with two evils. Lessee, on one hand we have

A) Allowing and aiding the glorification of a group responsible for millions of dead (exact number undetermined, 2 - 6 million according to which book one reads) and would gladly do it again if they regained social acceptability (ever hear any of the current nazi rhetoric? It is just as evil as the originals) through silence.

-OR-

B) Limiting someone's right to free speech.

Hrmmm, let me see....stamping out HARD a proven evil, where the only people who lose free speech are a part of that evil. Or feel good about my open-mindedness and give that evil a chance to become acceptable once again (perhaps not in my lifetime, but a chance)? Become a nazi sympathizer via silant acceptance or support censorship? Damn, I'm gonna have to go with censorship for the good of humanity and easing the still raw wounds of my fellow man.

If that makes me a candidate for the ministry of truth to people that would not know truth if it bit them on the ass (hey, everything is relative, right? We have to accept everything equally, right?), well then, so be it! I'll take that as a badge of pride and consider myself in good company with the more enlightened and less self-centered europeans who have banned such symbolism.
.

Maklin, I can't believe you are so naive as to believe you will ever stamp out Nazi's or at least Nazi like attitudes.

To me nothing is more evil than one person (or group of people) who have determined they have the right to decide what others can say. It's always done by those who determine that it's for the greater good of all society and to protect us. No thanks. That kind of protection I don't want.

I will always support anyones right to free speech. I don't have to like it, I may hate it but I will defend it. Why? Not because I consider myself open-minded (which I am) , but because it protects ME. As long as I allow others their right to free speech, I am protecting my right to speak out against them.

Tell me, do you advocate book-burning, too?

Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it....

And your right not to listen to them. I can decide for myself what ideas are dangerous. I don't need anyone else to do it for me. That's enlightenment.

If those books advocate mass murder and genocide, yes. We cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, free speech or no, so why can we publish ugly books and pamphlets advocating race war and genocide? Both are intended to incite people to action, and both have deliterious effects on those subjected to them.

One could say the same thing about those that defend nazi's and nazi uniforms. Make it acceptable to the masses, as it is to the self-centered guardians of free speech in SL, and that little section of history will repeat itself too. I do not want to forget what the nazis did, I want it remembered for the evil it was...not glorified by idiots in SS uniforms running around.

You can't ban every nazi symbol going, good lord man how would anyone know what a nazi symbol was if it were banned everywhere? How would anyone know what it stood for if people weren't allowed to recount what happened? It's very dangerous to limit free speech in the fashion you suggest.

The Bible, the Koran, the Talmud?