Are Nazi uniforms considered "offensive"?

That's exactly the point. When that idiotic staement was issued by Danny Linden, no one knew what the hell it meant. We still don't. But if someone att LL actually read the Forums, this question could have beem answered and this thread could have been dispatched long ago.

This is what I was talking about in an earlier post.

I am not descended directly from victims of the Holocaust, I am not even Jewish, but I have known people. One had a third of her family wiped out. A couple had the concentration camp number tattoos on their left forearms. One was a survivor (barely) of Auschwitz. His story: When he rushed out of the cattle car along with hundreds of others forced to stand by the crowding in it for many hours, with his family, at age 13, they first encountered Dr. Mengele gesturing at the stream of people herded in, sending his family (among many others) to the left, and him to the right. He never saw his family again. (They were gassed immediately; a documented fact he still did not want to know, decades after.) Each day, the guards called muster, like in a military installation, and each day they called out a list of names, who were taken away and gassed. One day his name was called. He slipped away, went to one of the outhouses, and hid in the pit under one of the public toilets where people's excretions fell, the entire day. The Nazis would search intensively all day for those who did not answer their call; but after that they would forget about them. (This was an assembly line operation, after all.) So he survived, blending in with the others - until he fell ill with what seems to have been typhoid fever, and became to ill and weak to avoid the guards. They took him to a lbuilding and threw him into it, into a pile of other people obviously ill and dying. And he would have died there, but the Red Army came through just then, and he survived that too. He still had a limp, many decades later, because one leg was coubled up under him and he was too weak to move, with other piled on top of him.

Okay, tell me now that a Nazi unifrorm that even remotely seems to praise or glorify Nazis is okay.

If you do, I have a lot bigger vocabulary of obscene insults than Alicia, and if I think you are even half-way serious, or just a wise-guy asshole, I will be happy to use them on you. On the forums, in-world, in IMs, and in RL to your face, just before I push it in with the nearest blunt object until, if you are lucky, the police pull me off you.

Seriously, this is a subject which, in the Western world, is too painful and agonizing to be classed with neko/furry/vampire drag or other such SL silliness. This is something real. Hence the special treatment.

I agree completely, though accept a decision by a private company is not censorship. LL can do whatever they want.

For the record, I am a gay man. An estimated 50,000 gays were murdered by the Nazi's.
56,000 gays were sterilized by the Nazi's.

My husband is a black man. An estimated 3,500 blacks died at the end of a noose strung up by the Klan over the past century.

I accept that these numbers don't come close to the number of jews, etc that were destroyed during WWII. Nor do we have the up close and personal experiences that Alicia does.

However, we have frequently expressed the rights of those groups. In addition, we have funded and expressed our support of the ACLU which had worked tirelessly in support of both the Nazi's and the Klans right to speech here in the US.

To us hatred is scary but censorship is even scarier. It should not be forgotten that the Nazi's began their control through censorship.

If by "Ok" you mean "should be legal", then yes, it is absolutely ok. Could it be an assholish thing to do? Quite possibly. Being an asshole shouldn't be illegal, though.

Now, what about in contexts that don't glorify nazism?



Go ahead. I'll know the convictions of your morality then.



Theres a lot of other things that could fall in that group too that aren't blanket-banned. A hell of a lot of things.

Yes! Many cultures used the swastika as a good symbol - not only Buddhists, but Hindus, the ancient Greeks, the Navaho Indians (!) and others. And theirs were all the reverse of the Nazi version - which many of them superstitiously regarded as extremely BAD luck, being twisted in the opposite direction of the otherwise universal norm.

It's still censorship. It's just censorship by a private individual, which I only have a problem with as a concept, not as an issue of policy. I'd rather not see it happens, but its really not my place to stop it if they intend to do it.



Also, this. I'm gay. I am absolutely not a Nazi in any way, shape, or form, nor do I condone a single thing they did in terms of practice or policy. Still don't favor censorship in any fashion.

I didn't even bother reading this thread, so sorry if I'm being redundant. To the OP, don't be a dipshit, steal from someone else:

if it walks like one, talks like one and appears like one, kill it and hang it


go to a f`ing museaum and not in daily life wich also includes normal SL life, it`s banned




thanks Har, finally a sane person heh

QFT. Thank you Bradley.

That is not entirely true. Both the left and right facing versions are used in cultures long before it became a symbol of hate in the Western World. In fact, while I was in India not to long ago, I saw the symbol in many places freely in the open. This is why I am against a broad brush against banning the symbol regardless of context.

Gee, isn't that what the Nazis said about the Jews? Or what the KKK said about a black man who dated a white woman? I understand your point, Alicia, I really do. But fighting hate with hate only breeds more hate.

I'm continually surprised at your advocacy of cold blooded murder of those you disagree with.

That the irony is apparently completely lost on you makes it all the more fascinating.

Why do people dress up as Satan, then?

:: dressed in a tailored suit as the devil's advocate ::

those aswell should be shot and i`d rather have hate then live among ppl who would rather do nothing else then commit genocide with whiping entire races of the planet




but i guess it is to high to grasp...

that dickhead wants to sell nazi uniforms, this is not using for private roleplay, history isn`t cencored, reincurrance of it isn`t censored either, just banned
u make a museaum and no one would have had a problem, giving nazi shit wich griefers will get to increase their profile it will encurrage, same as in rl

wtf is wrong with u ppl?

Don't often reply point by point, but here it seems appropriate.

Contexts that don't glorify Nazism? Read my previous posts. Question already answered, abundantly. I am cool with such representations in such contexts, and have said so, in this thread, but you don't seem to want to know that.

Go ahead...: ) I'll do my best, though I admit I was speaking rhetorically, which will depend on the nature of the nearest blunt object. There are some cases (not many, thankfully) where the moral thing to do is to act as the body's immune cells do with invading germs: Destroy them, swiftly and remorselessly. Then, there were Nazis. Today, there are terrorists. Tomorrow, one has to hope there will be an end to such things.

A hell of a lot of of things...Yes. Indeedl. In every continent and every culture and every period of history. Does that somehow make Nazis less evil? And how exactly does it discredit, as you seem to insinuate, the present revulsion against the worst such horror thatis still in the living memory of some? And the passionately if symbolically expressed desire - need! - to stamp such things out?

You seem to be in too big a hurry to posture as intellectually and morally superior to notice how foolish you demonstrate yourself to be. At least read the goddam thread before you post on it. Now go away and let the grown-ups discuss this without the inteerruption of puerile (at least intellectually) foolishness.

You didn't expect your original post would be an inflamatory question? If not, let me amend my earlier recommendation to say "just scrap the idea and let people play Wolfenstein instead; you appear to not understand the issue".

Ahhh. Wonderful. Perpetuate the hate. Yes. Brilliant! Certainly by wrapping our civilization in every-deepening layers of festering, murderous, inbred, self-sustaining hate-ethos mindsets, we are on our way to true understanding of our fellow man and peace for all.



How do you know? How do you know what the uniforms would be used for? How COULD you know what they would be used for, if you don't give them a chance because it's not legal to sell them to people?



But it is. It's being. People are trying to erase things from history, as if keeping new generations from being exposed to a thing erases the stain. It doesn't. It can't.



Guess what? Banning something is censoring something. Does the term "banned books" sound familiar?




But people have had a problem in the past here.



You think that Nazis only continue to exist because people can find their uniforms?

Griefers will grief, in or out of uniform. Nazis will be nazis, in or out of uniform. And in or out of uniform, people who are not griefers, are not nazis, will not be griefers, and will not be nazis, just because you think they are.

Besides which, if the only reason to ban things is because griefers could use them, there isn't much left in SL you could sell.



Oh lady irony...

Isn't that what the Nazi's did?

I know where you are coming from, I am not going to go into detail but believe me when I say I know the pain that history can cause over and over and over...

But what I worry about is if we try to "blank" what happened, try to erase any representation good or bad of what really went on then we are doing our ancestors an injustice. Their memory does not deserve to be "wiped" out, the truth should always be out there and the only way that can happen is if the truth is allowed to be discussed whatever the opinion.. so future generations can make informed choices with all the information that is available to them..and our ancestors are remembered.

u will look well in his uniform, nuff said...

I'd say go with worldwide, bigger, longer, uncut and with swastikas on it.

Alicia, wouldn't it be better to let them wear their costumes and march around the town square. That way you know exactly who they are. Driving them underground only allows their hate to grow and fester. The unseen threat is much more dangerous than the idiot you can point and laugh at.

Alicia, sorry, I am NOT quite as stupid as you're calling me. I'm just saying that your hate isn't getting you anywhere.

I'm Irish. Check this out:


It's been determined that the British killed over a million Irish citizens. And yet, guess what? I don't hate all Brits. I don't want them all dead. Go figure.

Oh, and about censorship. I despise it too. I do not mean by all this to say I like the LL ban on Nazi regalia and the like, or even agree with it. I have said in another context I think they should allow this stuff -- and declare those who do it fair game. The Residents would take care of it very quickly, by exercising their freedom of (symbolic) speech. See, the free marketplace of ideas would take care of this sort of thing very quickly. : )

But I do understand the LL ban. I think LL understands the Nazi sort of thing is incitement to riot, and so ban it in that spirit. I still don't like it, but I'm willing to reluctantly grant them an exception, in this one case. Absolutely don't want to see it be a precedent for other bans, or other restrictive behavior.

But there are Platonic Ideas, and then there is Reality. And in the end, Platonic Ideas have to acknowledge Reality.

linden lab should rename second life to: 4th reich: Rise of the Vitual Nazi`s

Not only that, but it gives them an aura of attractiveness to some people. The forbidden fruit is always appealing.

I'm Irish/German/Slovakian...I don't who to hate