Why Dance in SL? A Sad Commentary on Life.

I find the thread title unfortunate. Is it necessary to judge what makes others happy?

Why would your own professed enjoyments, in the final sentence, not fall under the same judgment?

Are you fishing for reactions Jig?

Probably not . . .

Pep ( . . . from considerable experience. )

Fixed it for ya! And removed the sexism in your original as well.

Pep (of no fixed abode )

PS Nika, I *have* posted to this thread.

I just wonder what Jig would have the disabled to do? Since this virtual world and the friendships we make here are so "unsatisfying".

Should we do like my ex father in law who also has MS? Only his started in the days before many of the newer treatments and the internet. So yes Jig, his life was/is lived in desperation. Sitting home alone all day with little to no personal contact at all. Spending all his time watching TV, he actually ran 3 VCRs at a time to catch shows he wanted. But guess what, his brain is now mush.

For all it's limitations, SL allows me to have friends again. It lets me dance, ride horses, shoot, sword fight or anything else. But notice what I said first, it gives me friends again. I can talk and interact with people. And yes many of the people here are my friends, real friends just as real as anyone would have in the real world. Call it sad if you want Jig, but for me and many people like me, SL is wonderful. If your imagination can't see that, I have to wonder just how creative you actually are.

You know, you sound actually approachable in this posting. But you and I simply dont see eye to eye. "Loud Arrogant Red Neck" is simply a red flag to me since I am Jewish AND half black-Jamaican. I cant help it - I'm "programmed" that way. My own Dad died with dementia last fall - NOT Alzheimer's but Frontal Lobe Dementia which calcified his brain as he lived. He was a lunatic when he died and a danger to everyone around him. He had been a highly regarded intellectual and "personality" in the UK when he was younger and sane. One of the 1960s "Brains Trust" types. Pep will know what I mean. My family have members who have MS. Misery crosses all borders. I am not the monster you take me for or the rude person you WANT me to be. I simply ask a few questions and dont hide my feelings. I am sorry that you are ill. I cannot understand how it feels - but somehow I dont think you want my pity or my solicitations. I doubt if you would even want a person like me anywhere near you.
Anyway, as I have posted elsewhere, I have decided that its best if I go away from forums for a while. In sl I have been griefed on a consistent basis for a week now so I am basically going to shut down and see what happens. Forums, sl and maybe even my profile and going into neutral for a time.
Strength and honour, Chris. I wish you well and hope your strength returns. You may have missed an opportunity to have had another friend had you read my postings with more "give and take" and humour.
Jig-saw.

Since we are people and not birds we will never be able to experience flying either. So in some sense we are all "disabled" in that respect. But still, flying in SL gives us a hint about how real flying would feel like. It could be even better if it was an actual 3d VR setup with a helmet! So despite being able to dance in RL as well (even knowing it well), I can understand that someone who is physically unable to dance might be able to grasp the feeling of dancing by dancing in SL... Sounds reasonable to me.

(Somehow I completely misunderstood this thread: Dancing is way more than a prelude to sex. It is an artistic expression as well, and it is not even related to any partner - you can dance all by yourself too. Disregard my previous comments on sex in SL please.)

QFT

I agree, as I find flying quite thrilling and jumping off of tall buildings and splatting on the ground repeatedly somewhat cathartic.



Done

Wow Anya, you could not be more wrong.

Yeah, I gotta agree there. To the casual observer it might look like I'm just sitting on a chair in the middle of a group of gyrating half-naked hotties (Hi Rizzah! Hi Immah!), but I actually have two or three IMs going, if not more, at any given time-- if not an actual private voice chat. I see no reason to assume that is not the case for everyone else.

QFT!

This.

I deal with bipolar so extreme that it requires anti-schizophrenia medication, along major anxieties and mild agoraphobia. I have no real chances anymore of making friends in RL because i live in a state where i did not grow up, and even though i do happen to get out of the house to do the social things i do, it requires i be intoxicated to deal with large groups of people. I actually sing in a band here in my town and to do so i just get drunk to get on stage and at the end of the last song i literally walk off stage, grab my purse, and leave the bar - the band guys handle my equipment - no lingering around at all - unless i get drunk again - which is bleh. SO, for me SL gives me a great deal of life and emotion that would just overwhelm me in RL.

Dancing is expression, i don't just click a huddles and then wobble around the floor, i choose my dances according to the music and the rhythm that the dance moves at and it is a great feeling when your avatar is moving in time with the beat.

I really resent the close-minded sort of people that dismiss SL outright as a place for those without a life and make blanket statements belittling a persons RL because of things they take part in inside SL, like dancing, sex, socializing, making friends, running a business, etc... Those types of people are just clueless, shallow thinkers obviously incapable of even the most basic critical thinking skills.

I like you lots Jig since we talked in world, but please don't sound so ignorant while at the same time sound so experienced and educated because it creates some incongruity in your forum persona that i find to be quite disturbing. On one hand you are insightful, on the other completely ignorant and incapable of applying such insight to the topic at hand. I do understand that you phrased the subject topic in a way to stir debate but, honestly, that is kinda akin to trolling - presenting a topic in a manner that can incite flames due to you the perceived position you have assumed by your OP.

Not really cool.

I've made a couple of posts in this thread that I regret making. They were unneccesarily nasty, I could have stated what I felt in a better way. My apologies to who they were directed at as well as all who read them. But they do convey my frustration with these types of discussions. We all came to SL for different reasons, and stay for different reasons. We all see it as something different, and all that matters is we get what we seek from it. Why must we constantly question, beliitle, criticize and condemn each other for it?

In RL we are increasingly being told what to do, who to associate with, what to think, how to LIVE. Must we bring that into , what is for many of us, an escape from all that?

Can't we all just get along?

/me tosses Brenda a Prada Flak Jacket in . . . Sage.

I think you'd look rather nice in Sage.

This!
QFT!

Z

that is so rockstar!

I must presume you have read my comment #180 to another person who wished to note my insincerity and apparant lack of knowledge of certain issues. I can't honestly see what I ask or state as "trolling". I think this may be because in my real work I am always controversial - or at least trying to get reaction. These threads are pretty tame. I think I am exceedingly polite in forums. I am terribly sorry you find me "disturbing" and "completely ignorant" and "incapable of applying insight" (and I am the one accused of being insensitive lol!)
I think we may be applying a double-standard here.
I ask forum questions to encourage response. Obviously one or two or 500 people completely misread what I said or chose to ignore certain comments. I am sensitive to issues of disability and illness - but I think that I am entitled to question validity of certain recreations in sl and espouse my feelings on them. Heaven's sake, some people make the outrageous sexist and even racist comments and are actually lauded by forum members. They have become the "Grand Old Men" of Forums. I simply comment on the legitimacy of dance as a recreational activity and I am treated as a pariah.
One of the problems here is that no one actually can hear my tone of voice or my stress of certain words as they would if this was radio. We are stuck with print - instant print.
If I incited flames then I touched a nerve. I made you react. That is a good thing - Not a bad thing.
As you know, I am actually trying hard now to remove myself from both forums and sl itself - not for this incident but because my partner and I are being badly griefed and are simply starting to encapsulate ourselves in a small space of land in order to simply chat. I end up returning to defend my virtue - not something I have been renowned for in real. It's interesting to see how griefing in its real sense can literally tear apart a virtual world my partner and I have built up for three years. We will survive - it's only a game after all. I am still going to comment and argue but only with "Kline".
By the way, I love to dance, love to feel heat off that floor and love that disco boomboomboom in my ears. Only not in sl.
Jigster.

music and dancing go hand in hand..where there is music and it ends up being a sound you like you react to it in whatever way there is possible ..
in your car you may be bobbin and singing in your house on the couch you foot may be tapping while your imagination is playing a movie or dancing in it's own way..
making love with the right music enhances the beat going on..it's also a form of dance..

in wow they have one dance for each character..i remember everyone wearing those out in goldshire on voice with someone playing music in the background.if you wanted to get sync someone broke out the flute that made everyone dance in time..

even unreal tournament we had dances and movies made with those dances..

Even movie trailers make a dance with music and video editing..it's what keeps you watching it..

In SL we have more dances and music than any other game or VW in the world..
where there is music there is gonna be some form of reaction/dance to it..

I remember when sine wave first came to sl ..The few of us that were lucky to find them first had like a two day window maybe a bit more before people were flooding our im's to ask where we got our dances..then every dancer in every club within a week on stage had them..
they were innovative to dancing in SL..this is why after they were found out they never have had an empty sim since..
Because dancing is something people love to do in sl just like they do anytime music shows up..
when your favorite song comes on tell me you don't bop or sway or react in some way to it..i know i can't sit still in mine .and if i am in sl i am rushing to the dance floor to dance to it..

if someone would say i am boring for that or unsocial ..well i would have to say i'm not the boring unsocial one.
i've met more people from all around the world in the clubs i have worked at than just walking around sl or working on builds or shopping..and dancing is a great ice breaker..
may i have this dance? orwould you like to dance is always a good safe start point for people..
its much better than hi .how are you ..where you from? hahahaha

I hope I have explained myself to Brianna in my last post. I hope also chris gets an opportunity to read #180.
Hate to just log off without being clearly understood.
Jiggle.

Jig, sweetness, you start out with a provocative question that you know is gonna upset some people, you admit that you like to stir the sh*t (I do too sometimes, so I'm not judging), but then you get offended and act surprised when people don't give you the kind of attention you believe your actions should provoke (this is where the disconnect lies, I think). A little more acknowledgment of other people's feelings and a little less martyrdom in your responses might improve things greatly.

Having said that, I believe most of us like you and would miss you on the forums and would never want to see you griefed in-world.

Anya, if I'm remembering correctly, you used to maintain a blog (http://greendots.typepad.com/) that went searching for bots vs real people. Since one of the most common things that traffic-gamers do is set bots to dancing, it's no surprise that, thanks to constantly seeing dancing bots, you would make the above assumption. And, in many cases, it would be true, but not in all cases.

Why not? Do people only work 9-5 at the office? Do people only have sex in bed? No, they don't. People work from home and take work home, they have sex in the kitchen, on the living room floor, or outdoors, or wherever.

This is a fantasy world. Who is to say that someone's fantasy doesn't include dancing in a forest?

Nice try, cupcake.

Some questions for the "but I'm in IM" folks...

How do you start an IM conversation when there is no open chat and nobody responds to greetings? How do you know who to approach for an IM conversation when there is no open chat and nobody responds to greetings? Is it normal for nobody to greet a newcomer?

Frankly, I don't believe all the conversation is in IM. I believe it's just not happening. If the easiest way to socialize (open chat) isn't being used, am I really to believe it's all happening in IM? Twenty people in a highly-recommended venue, and they're all in private conversations? And am I to believe it's like this frickin' everywhere?

"But I'm in IM" is just too convenient. It can't be proven wrong. I've spent hundreds of hours visiting all the recommended social places trying to develop a resource people can use to find out where people are hanging out *right now*, but gave up for lack of success. But all that effort can be dismissed with "but I'm in IM". It's not just unconvincing; it's a little bit insulting.

No, it isn't Jig. Not necessarily. It also assumes that we somehow need you, Jig, as a catalyst. We don't. Nor is the topic so new or scintillating that it justifies causing others to feel somehow as if they are being judged. You mention your job often, while hinting that part of it is to stir up discussions. But, this isn't your job. We are all equals in here.

It's the feeling that sometimes you poke sticks at people on purpose, including things that touch their real lives and things about their real lives they cannot change, that causes resentment to flare in some forum members, I think.

And worse, I think that you know that, acknowledge that, and continue to do it anyway. That's the part I can't understand, and it's more crucial than any question about Second Life, in my opinion.

Since you do even say you're aware of what you are doing, and that you do it on purpose, I find it a bit disingenuous then, to claim you are somehow a victim of the other board members.

That's just how I see it all Jig.



After even saying that you'd feel desperate if you couldn't dance "in real" and after reading some of the posts here I think it's a tad insensitive to go out of your way to emphasize that.

That's not my only project, or even the largest. I have a list of just about every social place that has ever been recommended on the forum. I've spent hundreds of hours visiting them. The goal was to create a list of places that are actually social, and then monitor them with a map-scanning bot (already coded) so that at any time you could visit a web page and see where people are hanging out *right now*.

I had to abandon this project for lack of success. In hundreds of hours of visiting I found only a handful of actually-social places, and most of them were empty most of the time.



I'm referring specifically to the screen shots. They aren't pictures of social gatherings in forests; they are pictures of forests featuring a couple dancing avatars, accentuated by camera angle. They're kinda creepy. They remind me of all the failure I've had finding human contact in SL. Lots of dancing avatars everywhere I go (even the forest), but no conversation.