Why Dance in SL? A Sad Commentary on Life.

Pep, truly, this has given many people exactly what they really enjoy about forums. A thread to pounce on, a threader to critique, a whole lot of opinions. Even my apparant defenses (honestly I am NOT deeply hurt by this) have stirred some responses.
Let's face it, it's got just a tad of the dramatics mixed with an opportunity to express why people like to dance or don't like to.
You really are very sweet in your pomposity, Pep.
And I have promised my sl partner I will never post again. I'll rephrase that. I will never open a thread again.
Anyway, in real, I have a real hurricane to deal with.

And much joy was heard throughout the land. (I had you on ignore for awhile and made the huge mistake of taking you off. For my own tranquility, I think I should put you back on again.)

And what Pep said.

Well, you are right there. It's just what I am. But I am a loyal friend and a true companion, too. And I really dont like unfairness and hypocrisy.
In my case, I honestly try hard to supply "what you see is what you get".

Yes, you can. But let me assure you that you'll miss me.

Your obvious problem here, Jig, as exemplified by what I pointed out above, is not that you don't think before you post, but that you fail to do so while actually posting, and that as a consequence what you might be trying to say (which could possibly have value in being provocative and insightful) disappears because you present it in a way that miscommunicates your true sentiments. This means that everyone, unless they psychically divine your intended meaning, will almost certainly be confused at what you are trying to say - in the example above you make directly contradictory statements.

You are not alone in this respect of course (I have a similar problem with those who are semi-literate or fail to read accurately because emotion clouds their eyes) but you persist in your miscommunication, while others (including ESLers - I expect you were anticipating I would drag them in somewhere ) tend to give up when they realise that they are not getting their point across accurately, or when they realise that they have made fools of themselves and are just digging a bigger pit to bury themselves in.

Pep (If you are really going to stop posting, then goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.)

Then don't claim that you haven't disrespected people. I mean, really, that takes brass.

No, I think disrespect is openly being rude and pointedly prejudiced (some people in sl are certainly that!) I neither respect nor disrespect many people since I cannot know them in this environment. There are some whose views suggest to me that I would be offended by them in real life, and who proclaim their politics or their attitudes quite openly as being reactionary.
I hold many values close to my heart. I am a feminist, I have a deep respect for the pursuit of intellectual and artistic endeavours. I am not "anti-man" - I love them. I admire anyone who seeks to engage in social change and development. Actually, you may like me as person more than you imagine.
I do have brass - "in my pocket", as someone once said. And I like to think that I use it wisely.
I think my problem has been that the "style" of the forum is not MY style. I don't understand the "pie thing", for example. I don't "get" the inter-chat and in-common quips that seem to be so much a part of this forum. I don't say its good or bad. I just don't get it. It's nowhere near my reality and that confuses me. Maybe I just don't "belong" here. I realize that now. I don't really "belong" in sl, I guess.

"Disrespect" is a culturally variant term. Personally, your definition seems odd to me - I don't see how the question of "prejudice" is relevant, and I don't understand the second half of what I quote above (I simply don't know what you mean by it).

To me, mutual respect is necessary in conversation, particularly if opinions conflict. My definition of conversational "disrespect" is "brushing aside another's statements as if they are unimportant or unworthy of response". And it seems to me that you have done that in this thread.

Because "disrespect" is so culturally variable, I tend to simply accept it when people tell me I've disrespected them, and ask how. I was amazed once to learn that I had disrespected someone by making eye contact with them ... my inner reaction was, what are you, a dog? ... but I just nodded and went away. In the subculture I live in, eye contact is a simple invitation to interact.

So, people here have told you they feel disrespected. I haven't combed the posts, but ask yourself honestly: do you know why?
.

Now we have Argent miscommunicating, and Jig misunderstanding. It's catching.

Pep (Presumably Argent meant an abbreviated version of "brass balls", which is in misuse as an euphemism for audacity or courage, whereas Jig equates brass with money.)

Pep - "Brass in Pocket" is part of a Pretenders song. I think Jig was trying to be cute.

("You got a lotta brass" is slang, whether its derivation has become muddled over time, it is usually meant as 'nerve.')

Thank God someone got it.
Melita: thank you, thank you, thank you!

I this....I that....I need this...I need that....I have this....I don't have that....I want this....I don't want that....I this....I that....I am this....I am not that....I this....I that.....

Those who are truly enjoying and benefiting from what this venue is designed for, and has to offer.....are placing a few less "I"'s at the beginning of each of their sentences.

Brass neck, more like, in the context.

Brass balls and lack thereof being more associated with monkeys in freezing weather.

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Aes

Yeah, so? It's how I operate in real. I started at about two years old and it's been working for me ever since.

This is true, about 'thinking while posting.' So many times, while writing a long tedious response to something, before hitting the 'Submit' button, I stop and think, you don't need to say all that. You don't need to say anything at all, let it go. And hit the delete key instead of the Send button. The thing is, I wasn't trying to 'give' anything to Jig, as was mentioned in another post, except for my response to her Forum/thread question. As for not knowing one another, in SL or RL, I wasn't aware that was a criteria for responding to a Forum thread. At any rate, it is clear to me that Jig still doesn't get it and I am too tired to continue to rephrase my point., I'm done with it.

No, this is a different club. We're on Marco Island....The Savoy Jazz Club. I think they're just called The Savoy, if I remember correctly. Not advertising, just clarifying.

If it's working....then why so much drama over the responses.

I don't care what you have in your pocket, it's what you have in your backbone that I'm talking about.

You're jumping from one side to the other on this. You're not intending to disrespect anyone? What? You respect nobody! You're asking an honest question, no, you're here to stir up ****! Nobody believes you're anything but an impertinent upstart with just enough charm to carry it off... that's the role you take up again and again with innocent arrogance... but you'll carry it off better if you stick to it.

FFS do you really think that's all I tried?

Somewhere in this thread I mentioned the things I've tried at 7th Element (and other places). A Turing test generally happens when I've given up. The progression goes something like this...

greet people
comment on things people are saying (tough to do when it's all random gibberish)
crack some jokes
ask some questions
directly address the staff by name
make a Turing test (at this point I've concluded this isn't a social place, and now I'm just amusing myself)
offer free Lindens
ask if there are any humans present
type random crap and see if anyone notices

FWIW in a room full of humans people do jump on the 50L offers, and they generally think it's a contest. Want to start a conversation in open chat? Offer 50L to the first person to name one of the Beatles and you'll generally get all four, people chiding themselves for not getting in fast enough, an observation that someone looks like one of the Beatles, a Paul sighting, etc.

People will hang around for an hour, change their outfit, TP in their friends and alts for voting, etc, for 400L, and you don't think they'll just answer a question for 50? I used to offer 100 and it cost more than necessary. People jump on 50.

Exactly. From a self-confessed "iconoclast", no less.

But this is now a bit of a recurring theme. I think this is the third, or is it fourth time?

Flurry of Poke Teh Forum threads - forum responds - usual round of discussion, disagreement and storms in teacups - Jig makes a Drama Queeny speech on the lines of "Oh Woe Is Me I Am So (Youthfully) Misunderstood. I Shall Depart These Shores Ne'er To Return" - Forum tuts and rolls eyes - Jig flounces off - a short time passes when Forum goes on as usual - Jig turns up again. And so the circle begins again.

--
Aes

the two names you gave me..i said to you IF they were bots they were not GOL bots..and by looking at their profile the one may have been there to give group invite..
because it was in a managers group from another club.
the other had something in common..they were in one of the same groups..
DJ's do have following and Cliques do get attached to a dj especially if they are in the same family or if they are in the same clique..or if they just happen to like the DJ hehehe..

chat going quiet for 18 minutes ..ya that happens a lot when a DJ leaves and another enters..it when the following leave and the DJ that is coming Announces they are doing a set in this club or that club..

If you would have been keeping an eye on the teleport during that 18 minutes you would have seen them coming into the sim..your whole time watching the chat i was watching the landing point and seeing them rezz and walk to the club

the chat going from english to spanish..hmmm spanish DJ with a following of spanish people ..thats a new one heheheh..18 minutes sure doesn't sound like a switch being thrown to me..but then when you are looking for something that isn't there i am sure that 18th minutes seemed like a switch..

as i said bots do not walk to their destination..




The 4 by me? that was a clique..
they were on the same hud dancing in sync like a lot of people do in clubs..thats been going on in GOL since they had a dance floor..
you do know what a clique does together don't you? Just about everything...they are like a little family..they hang together they shop together they look similar because ..they are a family..they pretty much do everything together..
i said before..GOL is loaded with cliques..
you are looking for bots in a place that is loaded with cliques..you are going to see bots instead of cliques because thats what you are looking for..


you are going to see what you want..you are going to see dead chat and gestures because you don't come in with full IM's or have you IM's get filled while you are there..

you don't understand how this club has been built up over the years and you're not gonna figure it out in a few hours time..

DJ's have followings which you seem to think are bots..

people dance on the same hud all over sl and you think those are bots..

a spanish dj and chat changing to spanish in a dj changeover..you seem to think all bots in spanish have now been turned on..after they made the walk from the port that is..

i think you have been looking to hard for bots and are seeing bots all over and not seeing that you are in an international club..one that it's main attraction is it's DJ's with big followings..

also one of the more popular DJ's there also owns a gesture store..

I didn't care for the general chat being eaten up back when i was there.. cliques dancing by the stage in sync gesture spamming..they would eat up the chat when dancers were trying to talk with people that came there for the dancers..
i was in more meetings about the way general chat was being used than i can count there..so i know how it is there..

The dancers are not there anymore..
the dance floor social structure is about the same as it was back then..mostly gestures and everyone in IM's..

they are not bots there they are just people that over time have fit into a generation before them that were doing the same thing and that generation before them doing the same thing..they just look and feel like bots to someone that hasn't seen it develop over it's life time..

you are assuming people will jump for 50L..ya they jump to answer surveys in these forums too..
the reaction you see to people doing surveys in these forums is about how they look at someone offering 50L in that club..advertising or sales pitch ect..
whats this guy up to??whats his catch??because that kind of spam happens a lot there too..group invites and objects getting handed to you and note cards..

lots of people going there to do advertising or get thier club known or hand out their designs or whatever..
50L just falls into..bleh whats he selling?

You seem to be missing the point that in a hugely crowded place, most people are not gonna read all the chatter in main chat. Secondly, those people did not TP in there to get any money, they are there for other reasons that have nothing to do with your tests. When you describe the throngs of people TP'ing someplace for 400L, those people are going there specifically for money-- which does not seem to be the case at the place in question.

You keep saying that as if you think bots can't move to their destination. I suppose you also didn't know they have chat/IM interfaces so their owners can monitor conversation and pretend there's multiple people present?



The 22:00 DJ lists her language as "english...and randomness"

Randomness, indeed



18 minutes of total silence, and then 11 Spanish speakers start talking? Not entirely impossible, of course, but in the American evening there's no English? And I've seen it happen with French in the American evening, too? Yeah...edge cases, edge cases, edge cases...nothing's proven. Whatever. Looks like a stretch to me.



They also spew random nonsensical gibberish into chat together. Gotcha. So that's what they're called now. Cliques.



If it's a real following and not one person running multiple avatars, why isn't the conversation real? Why is it necessary to "LOL" when nothing funny has been said, "later, hun" when nobody has said they're leaving? Why would a real person say this...

[20:17] [snip]: nah !
[20:17] [snip]: loool
[20:17] [snip]: me either
[20:17] [snip]: xD Ha Ha Ha HA HA Ha HA xD

...in response to nothing at all, at two different times during the evening?

Frankly, I don't care if it's automated or if some human actually gestures this stuff into multiple client windows. It's fake traffic. It's fake conversation. It's someone, or multiple AVs, not actually there to converse, getting Lindens to take creepy pictures of people dancing as if there was actually socializing happening. It's creepy, it's fake, and the more you defend it the sillier it looks.

You mean, you've never been in IM with someone and then accidentally responded to them in open chat, where your response - standalone as it is - looks totally out of place and weird?

Happens to me all the time, therefore I must be a bot. Whoda thunk?