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Builder Bot - Full sim copy Bot
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
07-21-2009 12:15
From: Ciaran Laval
Builders Bot won't be released under a BSD licence:

http://rezzable.com/blog/rightasrain-rimbaud/reviewing-builderbot-release


I see this whole thing as an 'ongoing situation' ~ while this is certainly better news than yesterday, I'm curbing any reaction until I see what really happens.

My guess is that someone will likely release something comparable, regardless, and relatively soon.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
07-21-2009 12:18
From: Desmond Shang
I see this whole thing as an 'ongoing situation' ~ while this is certainly better news than yesterday, I'm curbing any reaction until I see what really happens.

My guess is that someone will likely release something comparable, regardless, and relatively soon.


I'm sure they will, others have hinted at as much. Hopefully the Lab will make their views known very soon.
Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
07-21-2009 12:19
From: Raudf Fox
Because, honestly, what good does it do to ban them? A simple mac spoofer and they're back in on a new account.. all fired up with the need for vengeance and more willing than ever to copy everything in sight. Can't ban them by IP either, because that is subject to change too.

This is the issue. LL can't fully ban the program without the use of some form of spyware that most of us will agree is unacceptable. And they sure can't punish the idiots in a way that would stick.


Well, if they persist, the content creator can file a DMCA takedown, file a vs John Doe infringement suit, subpoena LL for the offender's IP address and access time, and then can subpoena the ISP that IP address belongs to for the identity of the user on that IP address at that time. If he can get that info, then he can crucify them in court, if he is really serious about protecting his IP. Also, he needs to have registered his copyrights!

Of course, this only works reasonably well in the US and countries with similar laws allowing you to "pierce the veil of anonymity".
Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
07-21-2009 12:25
From: Marcush Nemeth
Did you investigate This new mono feature recently? It's point is exactly to make scripts run client side instead of server side. It's going to be pretty hard to reverse engineer it, but what's in your computers' memory is up for grabs to anyone with the proper know how (thank god, there seem to be less and less brilliant C and Assembly coders these days!)


Either you are confused, or you are referring to something no one else seems to know about.

If you are referring to the Mono-compilation of LSL scripts, they DO NOT run on the "client side", nor are they even compiled on the client/viewer anymore. Old LSLVM script compilation was done on the client, which had numerous security holes in the past. Even still, no LSL scripts, no matter where they are compiled, EVER ran on the client/viewer.
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
07-21-2009 12:53
From: Talarus Luan
Either you are confused, or you are referring to something no one else seems to know about.

If you are referring to the Mono-compilation of LSL scripts, they DO NOT run on the "client side", nor are they even compiled on the client/viewer anymore. Old LSLVM script compilation was done on the client, which had numerous security holes in the past. Even still, no LSL scripts, no matter where they are compiled, EVER ran on the client/viewer.

I completely concur. Scripts are not run or even stored client-side, not ever, not no-how.
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DigitaL Scribe
C#'in my Nails
Join date: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
hmm
07-21-2009 13:04
Why is it that any substantial post in this forum ends up with pages and pages of flames?

Are any of you adults?, oops!, is this the teen grid forum?

..Grow up.
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//Freedom
Release Null;
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
07-21-2009 13:05
/me points. It's Ordinal!!

From: DigitaL Scribe
Why is it that any substantial post in this forum ends up with pages and pages of flames?

Are any of you adults?, oops!, is this the teen grid forum?

..Grow up.

Er.. Bit of a flame there, son.
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
07-21-2009 13:12
From: DigitaL Scribe
Why is it that any substantial post in this forum ends up with pages and pages of flames?

Are any of you adults?, oops!, is this the teen grid forum?

..Grow up.

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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 13:14
From: DigitaL Scribe
Why is it that any substantial post in this forum ends up with pages and pages of flames?
Rule 35.
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Whimsycallie Pegler
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,003
07-21-2009 13:14
From: DigitaL Scribe
Why is it that any substantial post in this forum ends up with pages and pages of flames?

Are any of you adults?, oops!, is this the teen grid forum?

..Grow up.


I blame it on the chaos theory.
Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
07-21-2009 13:22
From: Marcush Nemeth
Did you investigate This new mono feature recently? It's point is exactly to make scripts run client side instead of server side. It's going to be pretty hard to reverse engineer it, but what's in your computers' memory is up for grabs to anyone with the proper know how (thank god, there seem to be less and less brilliant C and Assembly coders these days!)

Apart from being totally secret inside information which nobody else has heard about (which your suggestion to investigate doesn't point to) and going against the grain of the development so far (compilation was specifically moved serverside for security reasons), it also simply does not make any sense. Scripts rely heavily on accessing and modifying sim resources in realtime for all clients to see. It doesn't make sense to request to download those resources, perform the modification on the client(s), push it to the server, likely have it validate the updates, and then push it out to all clients, and it would lead to synchronization issues when two clients tried to update the same item.
And I dare not even start thinking about money-handling scripts being done clientside.

So no, that is *not* the point of "this new Mono feature".
Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
07-21-2009 13:22
From: Argent Stonecutter
Rule 35.


"If no porn is found at the moment, it will be made," or "The exception to rule 34 is the citation of rule 34?"

Honestly, I call rule 36 on it!
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
07-21-2009 13:22
From: Meade Paravane
/me points. It's Ordinal!!

I saw the "somebody posting rubbish about scripts" signal in the sky.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 13:25
From: Raudf Fox
"If no porn is found at the moment, it will be made," or "The exception to rule 34 is the citation of rule 34?"
Rules of the Internet are not an Abelian group.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
07-21-2009 13:27
From: Argent Stonecutter
Rules of the Internet are not an Abelian group.


I think you meant rule 25... "Relation to original topic decreases with every single post." We're good at that here. 'Specially me.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 13:32
What's purple and commutes?
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
07-21-2009 13:41
From: Argent Stonecutter
What's purple and commutes?
Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
07-21-2009 13:42
From: Tali Rosca
Apart from being totally secret inside information which nobody else has heard about (which your suggestion to investigate doesn't point to) and going against the grain of the development so far (compilation was specifically moved serverside for security reasons), it also simply does not make any sense. Scripts rely heavily on accessing and modifying sim resources in realtime for all clients to see. It doesn't make sense to request to download those resources, perform the modification on the client(s), push it to the server, likely have it validate the updates, and then push it out to all clients, and it would lead to synchronization issues when two clients tried to update the same item.
And I dare not even start thinking about money-handling scripts being done clientside.

So no, that is *not* the point of "this new Mono feature".



The point to me would be to offload trivial cosmetic stuffs to the client's cpu instead of choking the server with meaningless stuffs.

-navigating a menu: only the option you choose require server validation, the menu itself could be in a client script.
-bling? :D
-a personal mp3 player? no point in making the server handle that.
-your AO! (hell yeah it would be faster and wouldn't bog the sim)
-huds animations and stuff.
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
07-21-2009 13:52
From: Kyrah Abattoir

-bling? :D

Oh, please Gods, give us client-local bling!
From: Kyrah Abattoir

-your AO! (hell yeah it would be faster and wouldn't bog the sim)

SL really, really, *really* needs a built-in way to customize your animation. The current polling AO style is ridiculous. (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-386)
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 13:54
From: Kyrah Abattoir

-your AO! (hell yeah it would be faster and wouldn't bog the sim)
Actually, it would, because the client doesn't know what animation you need to use until the sim tells it.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 13:54
From: Tali Rosca
Oh, please Gods, give us client-local bling!
Bling *is* client-local, it's a particle system.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
07-21-2009 13:58
From: Argent Stonecutter
Bling *is* client-local, it's a particle system.

Not client local *enough*. (As in, local to the wearer).
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
07-21-2009 14:02
From: Tali Rosca
Not client local *enough*. (As in, local to the wearer).
Perhaps the technology proposed by makali in the following perceptive rant would be of use: http://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
07-21-2009 16:00
From: Ordinal Malaprop
I saw the "somebody posting rubbish about scripts" signal in the sky.


Ooops. My fault. Side effect of large wings casting shadows against the sky from an exceptionally bright plasma breath weapon. <.<
Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
07-21-2009 20:19
From: Argent Stonecutter
Perhaps the technology proposed by makali in the following perceptive rant would be of use: http://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html

no fun if the visual element isn't there =X (but oddly feasible given the wavelet generated text developed by Mitsui Engineering)
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