Builder Bot - Full sim copy Bot

In theory
LL could stop most copybot style things by making only the official viewer able connect to LL's servers (by using encryption and 3 way handshakes with passwords they change often)

Then you could have a plugin protocol from the official viewer to do additional things and the data sent to the plugins could be restricted to only certain things

All other viewers like restrained life, bot controllers etc could be built as plugins that connect to the main viewer rather than being separate programs that connect directly to LL's servers.

Unfortunately the amount of programming that would be required by LL to make the plugin system to allow the 3rd party features is huge.

And then installing rootkits in the client to make sure we don't crack it, and people would still be able to copybot, and if I wanted that kind of crap I'd just install Steam.

Wouldn't work or stop anything. You can connect to the grid using an official viewer through a proxy server and still do anything you want. Grid Proxy for example. The only way to have any security at all is by installing spyware on individual computers to see what all is running. This would be unacceptable and someone would also still figure out a way to hack the spyware. Just ask any of the game makers, music and movie distributors how successful they have been with any of the DRM schemes.

If someone is going to steal something, they can already do it and this does not really make it any easier. Most thieves do not need a whole sim, just the creations that they are interested in and that only takes a few minutes to get. I do not really see this as a game changer.

You type faster then I do

Yes they would be cracked occasionally, but they can just have mandatory updates often so that the cracking work would have to be repeated each update due to differences in the code and encryption etc

Providing you can understand what is being sent back and forth. If these messages were encrypted and the encryption changed often, it would be very hard to work out what does what to SL. Then once you do work it out, they change the encryption again.

You're welcome. Now, will it change anything?

Steve Jobs doesn't think it can work, and he ought to know.
It's the same thing here, as soon as someone figures out the crack, all the bad guys will have it, and you won't even know it's out there. You can watch this happening on Everquest and Warcraft. The cheats are barely interrupted by Sony and Blizzard.

If its as bad as you say for warcraft then I concede to your arguments

Cory Linden back in 2006 already addressed this issue:
https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2006/02/14/opengl-copying-and-stealing

Yeah like if ll's coder team hadn't enough work.

trying to protect the unprotectable...

It's like the music industry that think they can make it work so you hear he music but not record it...



You can only protect securely data as long as only autorized peoples are ment to view/access it, but anything the client receive from LL can be copied.


those permissions you wish to have simply cannot exist on a computer in a reliable way, there are only two fundamental permissions, read and write.

read imply the data can be seen and copied.
write that the data can be overwritten.

Anything else is an artificial boundary that only hold water as long as the user has no programming skills (or can't borrow said skills from peoples who do)


It's one thing to deny access to informations that sit on your own machines to someone else. It's a whole other thing (and a hopeless one that is) to deny access to someone to the content you allowed him to download to his computer in the first place.


(i'm waiting for someone to tell me programming shouldn't be allowed outside of regulated companies...)

Don't Apple do that with IPhone apps already?

BTW, while I was searching for information on this thread one of my google searches had this result at the bottom:



The link to chillingeffects.org contained the complaint, all right, and in the complaint was a whole list of web pages they wanted to hide from people searching Google.

Oops.

Apple hasn't been able to keep the iPhone locked for more than a couple of days after a new firmware release. QED.

Apps have to be approved to be sold the the App store, but the iPhone SDK is free.

Applications sold through Apple's App Store have to be approved, but anyone can wrote software for the iPhone. The SDK is free.

It's a common fact that those that are built on a pc can be broken by a pc

There will never be that level of security that you wish for stuff in a sim that must supply openly to a visitor on sl, to think otherwise is delusional.

Xml data is sent from asset to the client whether it be a bot or otherwise, anybody could take such data and use it at a whim, LL could and have tried to find a way to distinguish bot from human but like any major corporation, thats not as easy as it seems.

You will see cries about DMC, but as such SL access is worldwide and DMC is an american law, all LL could do is remove that persons account if they are not american, you may think that is not good enough but what do you expect from them?, the person will and could have sent all the data to another account by then.

It's a digital age we live in and where there is digital usage there will be digital misusage and Second Life is no exception.

I originally parsed this as saying "The Rezzable people have replied to this thread on the Rezzable site, and their reply isn't fit for posting here." So naturally I took a look, and saw no such thing.

Don't be so stingy with your pronouns; they're cheap.

This seems logical - and I hope the Lindens will hold them to this.

Who wants to create something awesome only to have it pop up next door?

Hey I can appreciate the technical arguments indicating that anything can be copied.
And for some that may be true. But it is also true that for the vast majority it simply isn't that
simple. And when groups or individuals create tools to facilitate one use but that also make it
Easy for Anyone to use to steal then that is completely an entirely different story.

Just as in real life no security method is 100% secure ever. Locks can be picked, chains can be
cut, bombs can be dropped, but the fact alone does not mean we should give out the tools to
people who otherwise would not have the ability.

its like SL is a giant warehouse and these guys want to hand out bolt cutters to anyone that wants them, but worse because with this people can just steal the whole thing locks and all, so to speak.

Reading that blog truly makes me wonder what their real motivation was. I cannot believe they could not have anticipated a massive negative reaction. It is like they wanted attention for attention's sake. Seems like someone is trying to get some kind of notariety regardless of the fallout.

Seriously, this could be a major buzzkill. Land prices are already dropping and sims emptying, people don't need to put in hard work only to have it stolen. Lindens, are you listening? Please outlaw this thing.

All your comments are pretty absolute about an end result so I'll leave you with this then.... Keep in mind this is by no means meant to be offensive to you but I've managed to understand your outlook on life so I'll put it as gracious as I can.

Your going to die one day Kyrah, its an inevitable fate to your life. Why continue to fight and trudge on when the final result is so obvious. Isn't it better to just lay down and die today then?

No need to answer just ponder the thought for a while please.

What does this mean ???

I think they were being facetious, telling Kyrah in effect that just because it seems useless isn't a reason to not try.

I think.

It was a response to all of kyrahs "theres nothing that can stop it" rhetoric.

My point is if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is going to happen you just don't stop fighting against it. I figured when people become adults they realize that everyday is a struggle for something and the moment you stop fighting against the inevitable you end up dying.

So just because its "inevitable" in some peoples minds doesn't mean people should just stop being concerned that the ability to copy ones sim could get a whole lot easier for some.

And just because some think its "inevitable" that things will always get stolen online doesn't mean they will.

These discussions continue about the internet and computers over and over again. Those who discuss with facts about how the internet collects and sends data and are 100% sure there will be nothing that can be done will probably end up being wrong in the future.

Computers and the internet are a very young tool in comparison to civilization and I'm sure we'll go much further than the computers we're using today.

I just get sick of people who think that they are so correct in everything based on how things are "today" and in "this moment" and those are generally people who don't help society advance or get over minor hurdles we've come across in the past.

So........ My comment wasn't a suggestion it was merely something to think about.

There is a difference to being forcefully raped and walking into a bar, climbing up on a table, stripping and putting your butt in the air. Most I think would go down kicking and screaming which is only natural. Much like some are outraged someone just created an opensourced full SIM copy bot and are saying they will be releasing it to the public.

/me points Loki to the intolerance thread. Lighten up a lil'. ;p