Builder Bot - Full sim copy Bot
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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07-20-2009 09:20
From: Miles Beck They do not, however, have the ability to copy scripts. Rezzable's software doesn't copy them, either. But that function is a stated goal.
From Rezzable's site, on why they will release Builderbot as open source software before releasing the pro version:
"it would be useful if anyone wanted to improve the code....Also scripts are not grabbed now, which would be handy." They will never be able to grab scripts unless they flat out hack the Linden sim servers. The point is, a bot can copy whatever it sees, since the data is sent to the client for exactly that reason: Allowing the client to build a local model. Builderbot, copybot, whateverbot is just a client logging in and getting the data sent by the sim. Script source is never sent that way; it runs entirely in the sim. They could code a bot which specifically request to download the script source, but that would require login, and be controlled by the sim's permission system, so they could only fetch their own scripts back. |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 09:23
From: Tali Rosca They will never be able to grab scripts unless they flat out hack the Linden sim servers. The point is, a bot can copy whatever it sees, since the data is sent to the client for exactly that reason: Allowing the client to build a local model. Builderbot, copybot, whateverbot is just a client logging in and getting the data sent by the sim.
Script source is never sent that way; it runs entirely in the sim.
They could code a bot which specifically request to download the script source, but that would require login, and be controlled by the sim's permission system, so they could only fetch their own scripts back. Wich is just what you need when you're the sole scripter of the sim anyway.
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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07-20-2009 09:32
From: Kyrah Abattoir Hey i've been there too however i'm no changing my mind because "lolol i like grabbing stuffs for free" but simply because as technology will evolve it will only get easier to copy paste transfer, spread and scatter data across tousand of computers in the blick of an eye.
Content creation might still have a good time in front of it, but it isn't bound by the same "physical constrains" as a car or a lawnmower are, hence there will be a point where obstinating ourselves to consider them as such won't be manageable anymore.
We are lucky that peoples somehow see a certain "perceived value" into them but i think it isn't something we can count on.
At some point managing copyright claims/complains will not be humanely possible.
I wonderhow many copyrights i am violating simply by saving a page of search results on google image or photobucket.
Oh hello brinanna whata re you doing with... HEY! HELLL... MMGBMMMM!!! MMM!!! O.K. Fine, you are right. Maybe. Perhaps technology will evolve to allow for copyright pursuits on a grand scale though - probably not. But still Kyrah, it does not make it any more reassuring. We both know people will come steal sims with this and recreate full worlds of sims in other grids. I can if i wanted to when this comes out - travel to the most beautiful Gorean Sims, fully copy them and then resurrect them on my own servers connected to one of the many grid services out there now. Not cool. It is the fear of what the unethical can and will do. Not so much the creation of the tool. But releasing it into an environment where abuse will run rampant. It is like releasing the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders into a inmate run prison in a 3rd world country - the inmates are going to go crazy. And so will the Copy Crooks in SL. |
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Destiny Niles
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 949
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07-20-2009 09:34
I always find complaints of stealing from SL is wrong kinda funny. Most of SL is built from stolen web images and scan pictures from RL.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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07-20-2009 09:35
From: Destiny Niles I always find complaints of stealing from SL is wrong kinda funny. Most of SL is built from stolen web images and scan pictures from RL. Most of SL? /me believes you are mistaken.
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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07-20-2009 09:36
From: Destiny Niles I always find complaints of stealing from SL is wrong kinda funny. Most of SL is built from stolen web images and scan pictures from RL. Travel. And learn. Texture artist are abound. |
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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07-20-2009 09:56
From: Briana Dawson O.K.
Fine, you are right. Maybe. Perhaps technology will evolve to allow for copyright pursuits on a grand scale though - probably not. But still Kyrah, it does not make it any more reassuring.
We both know people will come steal sims with this and recreate full worlds of sims in other grids.
I can if i wanted to when this comes out - travel to the most beautiful Gorean Sims, fully copy them and then resurrect them on my own servers connected to one of the many grid services out there now.
Not cool.
It is the fear of what the unethical can and will do. Not so much the creation of the tool. But releasing it into an environment where abuse will run rampant. This is what I feel personally although the tool used correctly would be a godsend but we all know abuse will be more popular  From: someone It is like releasing the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders into a inmate run prison in a 3rd world country - the inmates are going to go crazy. And so will the Copy Crooks in SL. Mmmmm Cheerleaders 
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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07-20-2009 10:01
Ok, Kyrah and i have been going back and forth on this topic in IMs, In World. I am going to post a poll based on some of what we have spoken about. If Kyrah doesn't kill me first. |
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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07-20-2009 10:04
I have pointed to this before in discussions like this. Whichever side you lean to, it still brings up some good points: http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/01/better_than_fre.php |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 10:31
Tali i would even say it's spot on.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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07-20-2009 10:37
From: Tali Rosca They will never be able to grab scripts unless they flat out hack the Linden sim servers. The point is, a bot can copy whatever it sees, since the data is sent to the client for exactly that reason: Allowing the client to build a local model. Builderbot, copybot, whateverbot is just a client logging in and getting the data sent by the sim.
Script source is never sent that way; it runs entirely in the sim.
They could code a bot which specifically request to download the script source, but that would require login, and be controlled by the sim's permission system, so they could only fetch their own scripts back. I don't tink there are many scripts nowadays for which there isn't a free, open-source version available anyway. The only items of real value left are the animations. Rock |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 10:44
From: Rock Vacirca I don't tink there are many scripts nowadays for which there isn't a free, open-source version available anyway. The only items of real value left are the animations.
Rock Animations? bleh today there are so many animators it's not even having a value anymore...
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Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
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07-20-2009 10:46
There's just a few teensy problems I can see.
Ok, so you've made a complete copy of a top notch Sim, right down to the land.
Great!!!
NOW- where does Mr. Freebie-Account rez it??
And wouldnt it be quite obvious to LL when they see someone buy a new sim and suddenly it pops in as a replica of another sim??
OR- If they're planning on copying an entire region to some other Virtual World, what are the odds that the code is the same?
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 10:53
hence why it's more suited to backup and less for abuses
a whole sim is gonna be a hell of a work to camoflage as your own.
i see this as a great tool for peoples who deasign sims on contract, they can work their local copy til client is happy with it and then plop it in place as soon as the target sim is bought.
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tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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07-20-2009 10:57
From: Kyrah Abattoir hence why it's more suited to backup and less for abuses
a whole sim is gonna be a hell of a work to camoflage as your own.
i see this as a great tool for peoples who deasign sims on contract, they can work their local copy til client is happy with it and then plop it in place as soon as the target sim is bought. They don't have to camoflage it, just cart it over to Opensim, where nobody gives a care if it's stolen. That's really the whole point of this 'tool'. |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 11:02
From: Darien Caldwell They don't have to camoflage it, just cart it over to Opensim, where nobody gives a care if it's stolen. That's really the whole point of this 'tool'. i think some grids wouldn't like that kind of reputation... as for the others, you really would care that much for tom and his pal in their local grid? for me the whole point is so i can get a backup of my sim out of the claws of LL so i win't have too much regrets the day i can't pay tier anymore.
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tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
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Miles Beck
MilesBeck.com
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 537
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07-20-2009 11:23
From: Kyrah Abattoir hence why it's more suited to backup and less for abuses
a whole sim is gonna be a hell of a work to camoflage as your own.
When rezzed in Opensim, the name of the original creator is not shown. Instead, the name of whoever rezzed it is displayed as the creator. As for whether people would want to do this with an entire sim, it has already been done: http://primperfectblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/trust-revisited-content-creation-theft-and-open-source-grids/ |
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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07-20-2009 11:31
LL should treat Rezzable like any other copybot-wielding griefer. Account cancellations and IP bans would be a good start.
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
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07-20-2009 12:03
From: Darien Caldwell They don't have to camoflage it, just cart it over to Opensim, where nobody gives a care if it's stolen. That's really the whole point of this 'tool'. I don't know whether that's a fair statement about the OpenSim community's view on content theft, but given how steep statutory damages can be, it shouldn't be too difficult to force OpenSim sim operators to enforce DMCA processes and protect copyrights. I'm not fond of the RIAA shotgun approach against small people, especially when they embarrass themselves, but the reason it works is because the financial risk is so high. The practical problem may be that many content creators lack the legal sophistication to pursue this route, but that suggests that sooner or later they'll form a professional organization to help protect their interests. |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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07-20-2009 12:31
i wonder how thingfs will evolve for content creators in sl and in general. It will become soon unmanageable to handle copyright violations online.
Personally i think the current copyright system as it is is not adapted to the internet age. If anything, it's too complex to work with on a large scale, it last waay too long and the fair use is way too narrow and restrictive.
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tired of XStreetSL? try those! apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-20-2009 12:38
Reply made on Rezzable site. Unfit for posting here.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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07-20-2009 12:43
From: Desmond Shang Reply made on Rezzable site. Unfit for posting here. looks like a perfectly gentlemanly reply to me. |
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Charlemagne Allen
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2008
Posts: 105
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07-20-2009 12:47
From: Desmond Shang Reply made on Rezzable site. Unfit for posting here. I would hope that, as you say, Mr. Ribaud feel the need to act in an professional manner befitting a major businessman. I don't think the record supports that, unfortunately. |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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07-20-2009 13:00
/me thanks Des, Mari, Ann and others who posted there.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-20-2009 13:13
From: Ciaran Laval looks like a perfectly gentlemanly reply to me. The best replies do, at first blush.
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