Builder Bot - Full sim copy Bot

This is not a matter of interfaces and protocols, this is a fundamental shortcoming to cryptographic copy protection (also known as DRM).

A cryptographic system consists of four elements: a plaintext, a cyphertext, a secret, and an algorithm. The purpose of a cryptographic system is to keep someone who has the cyphertext and algorithm from acquiring the plaintext. To do this you have to keep them from having access to the secret.

Cryptographic copy protection involves giving someone the cyphertext, the secret, the algorithm, and a permutation of the plaintext, and keeping them from acquiring the unmodified plaintext. This is fundamentally impossible.

Yep yep I hear ya but I think it comes down to groups of people who intended on the world having things free and doing what they can to see that come true. Microsoft has had holes in it almost if not intentionally from the day it started. call it a partnership between antivirus, and other types of companies that can poll your computer experience and make you purchase more hardware and software for your computer.

I just happen to think that the more people complain the more things can be changed. Thats all my opinion is. The jews would have been wiped out if no one stood up and said NO, or things are gonna change and many other races of people. Hell technology wouldn't have brought us many things unless people stood up and started to shout out loud about how they wanted things and how they wanted them improved.

I know some people don't think that has anything to do with computers or how things are copied from them but fundamentally it does. People are still trying to better a system daily, and thats fact. If you say there will never be a way to protect it along with some of the other experts then maybe thats the case. I don't think that people need to stop shouting out loud about it tho cause its theft.

The moment we stop standing up and putting people who want to shut people down in various ways then its the moment we shut down as a whole. Its also the moment that negative people win.

People always try and not look at the problem and change focus to other things, why not look at it for what it is....

THERE IS A TOOL THAT A WELL KNOWN PAST COMPANY IN SL IS SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC THAT WILL COPY FULL SIMS AND NOT CHECK PERMISSIONS.

People should be very loud about that and should keep being loud about it. Regardless of how others try and spin a topic off base or tell people to quit talking about it.

I also never once said that people can't copy things out of SL. I've always known that things can be taken from SL. I've seen all the various tools for doing so, seen the code, and even tested them on the regular grid and on open sims when beta testing Second Inventory and testing other tools that never did get off the ground. You can even easily get any texture you want through the viewer and your HD within seconds.

I'm more than educated on the ways of getting things easily in SL. I choose not to. There is however... once again... no problem in me saying that something needs to be looked at on how to resolve the theft of peoples content. And I'm well aware up till now there is nothing.

"Fix it fix it!!!!" Heh...

I'm baffled at that kind of chat. It's not fixable, it's like trying to "fix" gravity, or thinking you can protect a book from being copied while letting the copier read it.

The only "fixes" rely ,on a law that date from the invention of the printing press, wich obviously is hardly adapted to the digital age.

Since it can't be directly fixed in your mind at the moment then the "fix it fix it" causes people to do things they can. Make tougher laws and stricter penalties for those who steal others content.

I just heard of a lady who stole just a handful of movies and shared them in a peer to peer network who was just an average woman. They sued her for a ton of money. And good thing they did too. I hope to see more things like that in the future because people claim.... "Fix it Fix it."

Things do get changed when people shout.

No, it comes down to mathematics. You can't cheat mathematics. You can believe that you've got a scheme for making 2+2=5, but someone will figure out where you've divided by zero eventually. And more likely sooner than later.

You're mixing up unrelated issues. Windows is based on an API that wasn't designed to be secure, but it's certainly possible to design a fundamentally secure API and OS. It's not possible to devise a working cryptographic copy protection scheme.

There are many tools that have been available for years that will copy full sims and not check permissions. Keeping this one from being released won't change that fact.

Never said that it would change that fact, but does make changes and continues to make people think of possible ways or things to do if and when it happens again. Or think of ways of stopping it in the future.

So since everyones saying it is gonna continue to happen what are your suggestions?

Just no one say anything and just let everyone copy everything and if it happens to any of us just don't say anything at all. And no one should say anything at all about the new builderbot?

And the other question would be. Do you think builderbot should be just given out in the public library folder in SL?

*edit to add one last question...

If there isn't anything that can be done to stop copying, what are any of the people who say it does no good doing in SL.?

I hate when things like that happen.

No reason to be verbally abused to that extent over some difference of opinion or whatever stemming from a forum.

Totally lame.

I hate it when a topic is spun into a personal attack when its a discussion that will lead to the discomfort of many different merchants in SL. I think it takes a priority over someones need for personal attention.

Your right TOTALLY LAME She should keep it out of a public forum.

Please, please add NCSoft Korea's stupid GameGuard to the list of idiocy in the majority. Lineage 2 and Aion both run it.. and guess what happened with L2? They'd update it and within 24 hours, the bot runners would have it cracked and be back to running 24/7. All GameGuard does is bog down the computer and occasionally causing errors..

As a content creator, I wish there was something LL could do that wouldn't needlessly complicate things. But I realize there isn't. LL honestly can't afford to get into the kind of arms races that NCSoft, Blizzard and Sony can wage. And if those three are losing it, imagine the botched mess LL would make of it. I'd rather be able to log in and have the platform with it's normal instability, thanks.

As for builderbot? Keep in mind, they aren't just opening up our grid to this... their opening their own up too.

Clearly you're not proposing that because it's the digital age, everybody should therefore work for free in creating stuff because suddenly rents are free and suddenly the tax man has lost interest in us sending money in.

Any ideas what you would propose in its stead so that people can pay their phone bills and keep their lights on?

*Absolutely no one* attacked you, Loki. Attack is what you did, but you did it in what you felt would be some secret way, that no one would hear about. Well, I stand up for myself, especially against vicious, misogynist cowards.

I have been on this forum a long time, and I have never, ever brought anything into this forum/threads, that was personal or even off topic. That should tell the people here that it was really bad. I'm sorry, but even a minor threadjack is nothing compared to my sense of personal safety.

Did you not understand that the "tolerance/intolerance" post was a JOKE, and what's more that my 'joke' was aimed at ME? I was being silly. You were wayyy out of bounds. And what's more, cowardly about it, too. At least do those things in the open where other people know what you are capable of. If I have a problem with somebody I don't go IMing them something awful like you sent to me. Nice try but no one's believing your 'victimhood.' At least what I posted to you, which was completely benign, is out here for anyone to read.

Believe me I do not want or need ANY attention like that IM, Ever, EVER. No one does.

Yeah, tie your goods to a valuable online service, make the virtual goods only a meer "carrier".

The web flourish on this, nobody care if you snatch a picture from a siter, because it's the site that is important, it's functionalities and the service it offers, not it's form.

QED. Found guilty by your (or might you say you're? ) own hand.

Pep (The sad thing is, you probably don't appreciate unintentional irony. )

Especially if the Lab and its CEO, board and crew would be copied too.

Maybe people who have the ability will always be able to find a way round the tightest security, but what BuilderBot does it make it possible for ANYONE to steal, even if their technical knowledge is zero.

This is a shabby piece of work by Rezzable, and the hypocritical handwringing and "agonizing" over whether they should release it is nauseating. All they are effectively doing is creating massive publicity for their product.

Not technically, no. It's not a technical problem. It's a social problem. The appropriate response isn't technical, it's social.
Putting my money where my mouth is and selling Flight Feather, Tinycam, and many other scripts full perm.
So don't make personal attacks.

That was already true.

I don't care about Rezzable or Builderbot. They're just the latest snapshot of the naked emperor.

The problem with DRM is that to work, it would have to be able to keep the emperor from taking off his clothes again when he gets back to the privacy of his bedroom. I don't want to see people installing night-vision surveillance cameras in my bedroom, and that's what will happen if this goes on. In fact, if you run 64-bit Windows Vista, it already has. If you try and "take off your clothes" the "tilt switches" will shut down drivers and applications.

LL will act if the copybot use does infringe. Outside of that, copybots are legal and allowed to be used in SL, as long as that use does not infringe copyrights.

Technically, the same is true of any client, including the official one. Use it to infringe copyright, your account will be canceled.

You mean "suspended".

Most copy botters are suspended.

Gross abusers of Copy Bot for financial gain or mass distribution often get the permanent ban-hammer.

But there are lots - LOTS - of people who have been suspended for Copy Bot 'infractions', and not canceled.

You post a great deal about the suspension status of others but unless you work for LL you're simply talking out your ass.

Because, honestly, what good does it do to ban them? A simple mac spoofer and they're back in on a new account.. all fired up with the need for vengeance and more willing than ever to copy everything in sight. Can't ban them by IP either, because that is subject to change too.

This is the issue. LL can't fully ban the program without the use of some form of spyware that most of us will agree is unacceptable. And they sure can't punish the idiots in a way that would stick.

Not OTHERS, only you.

You were suspended 4 times for harassing me. But it didn't matter. You just logged in with Archu Leviathan and hung out at the welcome area with your pal Daniel Linden, until you got bored enough to come flame bomb my mall in Aqua until he had to suspend you again.

Don't you have anything better to do? Like work on: www.brianadawson.com ? You registered it, you are paying for it, use it.

*wave*

And, GET OUT OF MY COMPUTER!!!

Look I've had to report you numerous times in other places as well for you bringing personal attacks into a forum. You may have other people here fooled but I'm asking you once again. Please cease and desist your personal attacks in public forums.