Just How Bad is the SL Economy

If you think that then you still do not understand my part in this debate at all.

My sole reason (again stated in the hope that this time it is understood) is to cut through the fluff that is presented as reasons why offering mod/trans is bad, especially for the fashion and prefab markets and get to the truth.
So far to recap, the so-called "good reasons" are:

1) People mess stuff up and it is too hard to deal with mod/trans.

It would be easy to offer a replacement to those who have messed up. Either there are not going to be very many who choose mod/trans and so support for it is negligible or there will be loads of them and ignoring their preferences can lose you sizable business.
If it is determined to be a sizable chunk then you charge a nominal fee for replacement - might even make money if done right.

2) It is too hard, takes effort.

Debunked, there are people already doing it and even those who are not say they offer it upon request - how much extra effort can there be on top of that? People already go above and beyond with helping people fit items, making outfits that take weeks without knowing for sure if it will sell, etc.
Everything is too hard if you want it to be and for some this is a pffft reason if it brings in more money for them.

3) It facilitates theft.

It was shown to require about 2 seconds of time to check how the items are being sold to determine if they are legit transferables or copy-botted stuff. Still not a good reason to not do mod/trans should you want to.

I believe that pretty much covers it apart from the most compelling reason of all which is actually the strongest too and the one nobody is arguing against:

"It is my business to set the perms however I want"

With scrollable vendors, there does not need to be more prim usage necessarily.

If a person is going to offer the alternate perms set when a customer IMs them then it is very little extra work from that to sticking it up in a vendor too. Even if they are not offering that option, if they work in a smart way, then any extra time can be substantially minimized.
I have done this myself to see and it is no more than a couple of extra minutes for an outfit with the usual parts. That included the time in GIMP to produce two images with different perms showing, for the majority who don't use vendors like mine
This is my opinion, you obviously do not share it, lets just agree to disagree on this.

It is my hope that eventually those merchants will be replaced by up and coming merchants who don't have this agenda and do not need to spread misinformation.

I used to use the jevn system, which has the scrollable vendor... and ya know what...

I got complaints from my customers to put it back to single sales boxes, because they do not like to wait for a vendor to rez each item, they do not like to have to click through a sales box, and they like to see everything out there, as it makes it easier to find things.

(but I suppose this is not a good reason to not use scrollable vendors)

and not everyone can pop a "choice" script into their sales box (it may not work with other scripts, ie, gift cards, meta card, etc)

point 3: it curbs theft, and makes it much easier (as jess outlined) to know when theft is happening, again, depends on the volume of sales the person does, as to how much time they want to spend weeding out thieves from legit resellers, again nothing to "debunk".

so you are saying... that you want people to be replaced by others because they do not do things the way you want them to? (what does it matter, just do not shop there)

SL is big enough to support all types of merchants, permissions, and businesses.

I am saying I believe the whole reason that mod/copy is more prevalent in certainly the fashion industry that mod/trans is due to collusion and a deliberate need want to over-control the movement of content and greed perpetrated by probably a small but influential number of high-flying fashion merchants who have probably been in SL longer that you or me.

point 1: truth not a lie, not "fluff" it is the truth (and yes in some cases it would be too hard to deal with the number of messed up things in the run of a day, for some businesses that do major sales volume.)


point 2: I never said it was hard, but it does take effort to offer both versions, and for me, it is not worth the hassle, if you do not understand that, then too bad. (nothing to "debunk"

point 3: it curbs theft, and makes it much easier (as jess outlined) to know when theft is happening, again, depends on the volume of sales the person does, as to how much time they want to spend weeding out thieves from legit resellers, again nothing to "debunk".


What part do you not understand.....

no one claimed they are good reasons... we merely stated reasons why we choose to do things the way we do. (Or possible reasons why someone might choose one set of permissions over another)

point 3: it curbs theft, and makes it much easier (as jess outlined) to know when theft is happening, again, depends on the volume of sales the person does, as to how much time they want to spend weeding out thieves from legit resellers, again nothing to "debunk".

there is a big difference in setting the perms on say 5 pieces of clothing and dropping them in a box, as apposed to setting the perms on say 1000 pieces of clothing and then boxing them, and possibly having to make an ad for them (and renaming each piece of clothing so as to avoid mixing them up.

now if a business is starting out with offering both options, then the workload doesn't seem as high.. but for established businesses it is a lot of work. (too much work to justify the time spent doing it for some folks)

Mod/copy is prevalent because,
a) people need copy to be able to assemble outfits in folders, which the entire SL system is now geared up to support as the main way (and the only way) to create outfit sets;
b) if every one of the thousands of people who leave SL could give away or sell their old clothes, it would significantly damage the market.

Mod/copy is prevalent because,
a) people need copy to be able to assemble outfits in folders, which the entire SL system is now geared up to support as the main way (and the only way) to create outfit sets;
b) if every one of the thousands of people who leave SL could give away or sell their old clothes, it would significantly damage the market.

Gabriele.. your vendors are copy/mod? trans/mod?

a) No they don't, lots of people do this only because of copy.
If trans had been the default then people would more likely do something like I do with my items (I don't have any big difficulties and managing my inventory is easy) which I might add would probably clear up the crap left all over their inventory of partial outfits and franken-outfits cobbled together from bits and pieces of other outfits.

b) Ahh here we are getting to the real nub of the issue. Merchants who believe it would damage the market. Total BS and this is part of the agenda I speak of and that has been colluded on as part of the "lets get everyone to buy everything new as often as we can". I call it gouging personally.

You mean that any avatar which isn't sold as a complete coordinated set is a "franken-outfit" and should be looked down on? Um, that's just.. not right..

I suppose it is a bit, but it's a sort of protective measure too. In real life, handed down clothing is of lower quality, but in SL it's identical to new. And of course, the idea of giving away your clothes because you didn't enjoy the world and you're heading back to the old one isn't one that anyone IRL has had to deal with before.

If the latter then, no I don't. Everything that I sell requires specific permissions to operate correctly and so I cannot offer dual options.

Fair enough, you set the permissions the way that suits you.

And yes, selling some clothing trans would damage the market.. especially multi layers packs. one person could buy the whole pack and split it up between several friends... who each take a different layer set but end up with the total package.

This would mean merchants would start selling separate layer packs... and would spawn another bout of disgruntlement.

me, for clothing, i way prefer copy. saves on things getting lost and allows me to make up my own mix and match of outfits. Creators can give whatever reasons they like for the perms they sell things at, and if i dont like it, i dont have to buy it.

I disagree, everyone of those layers has been paid for,

I also mix and match with mostly trans items quite easily without anything getting lost and also without the bloat from making up new folders full or partial outfits either.

If the items were trans this would not happen. People would likely do what I do, keep outfits in the same folder they came in but file them in a meaning subfolder, and when they want to mix and match they would look for the first outfit they want, wear an item, look for the next outfit they want something from and wear an item or two from there also. The most time consuming part of mixing and matching outfits is deciding what goes well together, not the searching for it - or at least this should be the case and is true in my case.

Sorry, whatever the supposed reasons, they are just not good enough to take away someones ability to recoup or donate an item they have paid money for. You will never convince me it is necessary.

I also disagree
many creators make up the packs as a service and dont overprice or even add on anything because of multi layering, even though they have taken the time to make each layer

about the mix and match.. the way you do it suits you.. the way i do it suits me.
I dont wear clothes to be fashionable.. its more of an appearance thing .. when i am building i wear the same outfit for days on end.. i only change if i am going to be down in the store or meeting someone.
i dont need to waste the time looking for this and that in my inventory. I like the one clickability.I need to be somewhere quickly and i need to look respectable quickly.

this doesnt make either of us wrong... and you cant argue with ppl about their personal preferences, no matter what you think of them.theres a reason theyre called personal ^^

If you're regularly creating new outfits then yes. But if, for example, you have several "characters" with established outfits you wear over and over again, this wouldn't be the case, simply because anything that requires any effort can't be easier than just dragging a folder onto your av.

Well not really, I mean, remember that I suggested people should be able to get automatic refunds on their content when they leave SL? Everyone said that was a horrible idea and yet trans gives essentially just the same ability.

Yup I was just pointing out that no copy does not really limit you in this respect.