Just How Bad is the SL Economy
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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02-19-2009 18:14
From: Gabriele Graves Well this is the 100 thousand dollar question probably. I expect LL are asking this of themselves right now, but in all likelihood I think the best days of both inworld shopping and offworld shopping have already been and are now ending with this move.
I would love to be wrong but I think them buying it at all was a big mistake unless they go the separate business unit way and that is unlikely too. I disagree based on having noticed that my traffic on XStreet doubled shortly after the announcement of its sale to LL and much of the general SL population heard about XStreet for the first time. My in-world sales have also gone up, and I attribute that to increased traffic TPing in from XStreet. In-world shopping sucks because it is too hard to find stores with merchandise you are interested in. Off-world shopping was inadeqate because only a fraction of the available content was listed at either SLEX or OnRez. When a significant amount of in-world content is searchable by item, things are going to rock. If I want red shoes, I will no longer have to TP to 20 different stores to see if they have any red shoes that pique my interest. When all the shoe creators have their stuff on XStreet, I can quickly locate every red shoe available and decide which ones I want to take a better look at.
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Tabliopa Underwood
Registered User
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 719
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02-19-2009 18:15
From: Gabriele Graves Well this is the 100 thousand dollar question probably. I expect LL are asking this of themselves right now, but in all likelihood I think the best days of both inworld shopping and offworld shopping have already been and are now ending with this move.
I would love to be wrong but I think them buying it at all was a big mistake unless they go the separate business unit way and that is unlikely too. I kinda think that LL didnt buy XStreetSL for us exactly, even though we maybe use it and LL maybe make some money from it. Its value at this moment I think, lies more in its brand value to people thinking about coming into SL for the first time. This thought is consistent with reworking the www mainpage, blogs and forums software as well. An all-encompassing 2D showcase of what SL has to offer before people even download the client. Its kinds like a bridge to help the millions of people currently in 2D worlds to cross over by showing them a 3D world using tools these people already know how to use. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-19-2009 18:15
From: Katheryne Helendale Touché. This argument just made me realize I am guilty of the very same thing. Since learning how to build and learning LSL, I've deprived other home builders a sale, and many a scripter sales of scripted objects; and, if I can get around to building and scripting my own vendor, I hope to be able to sell my own houses with my own scripted add-ons (lights, windowblinds, etc.). Don't feel bad though, there are plenty of new people who swarm in to take your place with freshly printed L$  |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-19-2009 18:17
From: Isablan Neva I disagree based on having noticed that my traffic on XStreet doubled shortly after the announcement of its sale to LL and much of the general SL population heard about XStreet for the first time. My in-world sales have also gone up, and I attribute that to increased traffic TPing in from XStreet. In-world shopping sucks because it is too hard to find stores with merchandise you are interested in. Off-world shopping was inadeqate because only a fraction of the available content was listed at either SLEX or OnRez. When a significant amount of in-world content is searchable by item, things are going to rock. If I want red shoes, I will no longer have to TP to 20 different stores to see if they have any red shoes that pique my interest. When all the shoe creators have their stuff on XStreet, I can quickly locate every red shoe available and decide which ones I want to take a better look at. That's OK, I am happy with a difference of opinion  However I was really talking about the shopping experience and from a customer perspective, not an amount of sales perspective. I agree with you that since LL took over it has been bumper times wrt XStreets and inworld - the advertising alone has brought more to awareness of web site shopping for SL. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-19-2009 18:27
From: Tabliopa Underwood I kinda think that LL didnt buy XStreetSL for us exactly, even though we maybe use it and LL maybe make some money from it. Its value at this moment I think, lies more in its brand value to people thinking about coming into SL for the first time. This thought is consistent with reworking the www mainpage, blogs and forums software as well. An all-encompassing 2D showcase of what SL has to offer before people even download the client. Its kinds like a bridge to help the millions of people currently in 2D worlds to cross over by showing them a 3D world using tools these people already know how to use. You might be right, certainly LL have a precedent (as do many companies) of looking after new customers better than existing ones. For me though I cannot help but mourn any steps away from immersiveness and toward the flat web world even if the technology for that way is more stable and mature. The 3D virtual world is what I came for. It could be that I am worrying about something that might not come to pass and that the inworld shopping experience will be as good if not better - as always I hope for the best and will prepare for the worst lol. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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02-19-2009 18:28
From: Gabriele Graves Don't feel bad though, there are plenty of new people who swarm in to take your place with freshly printed L$ Or not so new people like me who aren't creating a thing.  I'll still be bouncing from store to store looking for those red shoes.
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-19-2009 18:29
From: Brenda Connolly Or not so new people like me who aren't creating a thing. I'll still be bouncing from store to store looking for those red shoes. Quite right, it will be a bad day for shoe merchants everywhere if you ever learn to make shoes Brenda  |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-19-2009 19:25
From: Gabriele Graves I don't know why you are confused, yes lets pick it apart.
First lets get some context, she is saying it would be good if LL did this to which I replied, why would they do it this way?
Now to the picking:
So this, K. wants it so you can browse XStreets as you can today. Not ambiguous. Not a problem there.
But You *HAVE* to tp to the store to complete the transaction. This is also unambigous, This is different, and where the comments I make are perfectly aimed and relevant. Why would LL make the system so you *HAVE* to tp to the store to complete the transaction? Don't have to do this today at all. I can pay from the web site - much easier.
I don't believe adding XStreets to the viewer this way has merits, or in any way actually.
That should not be hard to understand at all. So where is the problem exactly?
Also that comment about "in disbelief at my comments" that is casting doubts on my comments in general. My comments are as valid as yours, more so in many cases.
You don't have to agree with me Rha but I am getting sick of this kind of targeted shit. If you don't stop I shall AR you for every post you do it on and AR you inworld also.
It was a great conversation here until you arrived today.
Don't respond to me if you cannot do it without this sort of behaviour. oh my freaking god I even said I misunderstood in my post... but you still need to reply don't you to try to make me look like a fool, and explain it like I am a child or something (I even explained why it looked the way it did) I did not delete my post because people are too quick to repost deleted posts so I let mine stand as it was with the edit that I was sorry I misunderstood, but that was not good enough for you ok you have gone way too far with this line..."My comments are as valid as yours, more so in many cases." who the hell made you queen and what give you more validity than mine? just who the hell do you think you are? get down off your high horse and realise that none of us are any better than the other and the only things being stated are opinions. ohh so now you threaten me with ar's AND false inworld AR's? just how low can one stoop? you have targeted me so many times it is pathetic, insulting me many many times and making it very personal I voice an opinion and suddenly I am being threatened with ar's for saying what I think don't like what I have to say... just ignore me (it is a great tool ya know) just do not stoop to threatening me with AR's and FALSE ar's as I have done NOTHING to you here OR in world to deserve an AR *shakes head in disbelief* and you think I went too far????
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-19-2009 19:42
@Rhaorth, Nobody said false ARs at all and ARing someone inworld for their forum behaviour is one way of getting it to the Lindens attention when the forum ResMod is absent.
Yes I do think that what I said is often more relevant that what you have to say - so what? Who says I cannot think this way? After what you said I am less likely to be nice to you and spare your feelings.
You initiated dialog with me today and that first post had targeted me unnecessarily by trying to make out that my posts are not understandable or in some other way deficient.
As for whatever else you are talking about I do not care, you have crossed a line. Your fake outrage at me calling you out on your behaviour is not convincing at all.
You did this to yourself by pursuing this course of action and you have nobody else to blame.
EDIT: I have only just now seen your apology in an edited post, FFS, Jebus Christ on Stick!, you don't get notifications of edits - the conversation had moved on a lot of posts. How in hell am I supposed to know that it is there?
Even with an apology you attacked first and then apologised, no it is not good enough - you should not have done it in the first place.
Especially not after last time and the dozens of times before.
You are drama through and through and I am done with it and you.
Stay away from me, I will stay away from you.
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Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
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02-19-2009 19:43
lolllllllllllllll
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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02-19-2009 23:52
(ETA: I have skimmed/skipped a lot of the discussions this is to the OP)
Here's the thing.
Most people do not shop from *necessity*.
If that were the case why would anyone buy anything in a virtual world? Avs don't get cold, or hungry.
Perm or no perm, obsolescence or lack of, people will still shop and still buy, because it is *fun*.
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-20-2009 00:23
From: Katheryne Helendale I agree; this would be a really, really dumb idea. Forcing everyone to sell their creations as mod/trans as Briana and her "I've-been-in-SL-since-alpha-so-I-know-everything-and-you-don't" ilk so desperately want, will harm the market. The degree to which the market would be harmed is obviously debatable, but harm will occur. Moving XLStreet (or any other web-commerce business model) directly into SL's search engine will not just harm the market; it will destroy it, and take SL with it. It would make no sense whatsoever to maintain a "brick-and-mortar" presence in-world; no sense maintaining the sims, paying tier on them, and so on. The land market would implode, in-world businesses would be wiped out, and and SL, if it survives, would just be a gigantic bedroom community. But, hey, that's just worst-case scenario.  If i'm honest with myself....i would prefer XStreet to remain as a stand alone Service and accessible as an outside shopping centre...and not be fully integrated into SL viewer. 1 or 2 things could improve within Xstreet, so it would make it easier transferring money back and forth without the rush to find the nearest ATM...logins can be synchronised, so it wouldn't require separate registration which would open it up to the masses. Other than that, i'd be quite happy to see it retain a certain amount of independency like now. However, having used Onrez viewer for a great length of time, it would not surprise me if LL went down the route to full integration. It certainly will impact the inworld shopping economy for sure (i,e stores with land).....it has to, because a certain % of the population will use that way as their default mode for shopping. |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-20-2009 00:52
From: Rhaorth Antonelli I like that idea, as I do that alot now already.
I tend to browse xstreet, then when I see something that interests me, I either use the slurl they provide in the ad, or search the owner in world to browse their store
(not sure why I do it that way, but I like doing it that way, and since there is no right or wrong, just preference, this idea to me sounds neat) For the 1st year and a bit of my SL life, that how i did most of my shopping....that only changed when ALL Search arrived. I still use Xstreet mostly for items like store building prefabs, houses,gadgets,scripts etc. Especially with buildings, i do the research on XSteet and visit the store inworld to check out the finer details. (i.e Quality of build & textures) |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-20-2009 02:09
From: Katheryne Helendale I realize all of this is just conjecture and speculation at this point, since nobody really knows for sure how, or even if, LL will implement XStreet into the in-world search; so I'm just trying to play a little "what-if".
So let's assume that LL IS going to implement XStreet into in-world search; what would be the best way to do it so that it doesn't a mass wave of store owners to tear their stores down and sell off their land in order to save on tier, which is what I feel would happen if XStreet became fully integrated into the viewer as-is. My idea would allow people the ease of browsing XStreet just as they do today, just integrated; and require the customer to tp to the store to pick up the merchandise. I think some of are missing my points. (or choosing to ignore them!-lol) With "Onrez SL viewer", which i am still using until the 23rd Feb when it will be no longer supported....the picture you get is this. (The below description stopped on 11th Feb when the Onrez shopping site was closed!) When you login as per normal...by default you will get a shrunken size type "Browser" page (without browser Menu options/ buttons) appear in the middle of your screen. The "Onrez Shopping home page as its default page" From there you can browse and make purchases as if you were on their website outside SL. The difference is that the SL game remains running in the background (Home or your last login location)...it doesn't minimise or disappear. You can effectively search, make purchase on Onrez...and chat to the person next to you in game. The "Shopping browser" is standalone UI and quite separate from the the "Search" UI box....its not a seperate tab within the Search UI. They are 2 separate buttons in the SL viewer. It's this model that LL might adopt...making XStreet the default pop-up when you login and the ability to shop within whilst doing other things in SL. You would then choose on how you would like to find products......you could open the "Search box" as per normal......or you can use the "Marketplace search" inside the XStreet UI....in effect it becomes the 4th option for searching products in our Viewer. Hence why i said the importance of Banner advertisements. If the default page is the " Marketplace" page...then either having a "Featured Marketplace item" or a Banner advertisment might be more beneficial in terms of eyes on "company logo or featured product" than say the existing top-8 classified advertisement you get now. The difference is that you have to open up "Search" Box to see those top-8 ads....whereas XStreet being a default pop-up box when you login, you can't but notice whats on that content page.....be it a Banner advertisment running across the page...or photos of "Featured items". It means it gets viewed by everyone that logs in...no escaping it as you'd need to "X" the XStreet" UI box to get rid of it. This already happened with Onrez viewer....and now LL have bought Onrez, they are aware of what can be done regarding XStreet and the SL viewer. Also it should make transferring money back and forth easier.....in fact they might even use your current balance as the balance showing in XStreet. Plus you won't have to register seperatly to XStreet as was the case.....by default your SL account becomes your XStreet account with same user name and password opening up automatic access to everyone in SL. |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-20-2009 02:37
From: Clarissa Lowell (ETA: I have skimmed/skipped a lot of the discussions this is to the OP)
Here's the thing.
Most people do not shop from *necessity*.
If that were the case why would anyone buy anything in a virtual world? Avs don't get cold, or hungry.
Perm or no perm, obsolescence or lack of, people will still shop and still buy, because it is *fun*. Quite right....and also the social experience of shopping in world. Many here enjoy that... as it's a major aspect of their SL lives....so i don't see it dying anytime soon. There might be shrinkage however...whatever eventual system is employed, there will always be winners and losers.....the pool of consumer Linden dollars is not infinite without the growth to future Logins.....and most importantly the additional new Logins that "buy Lindens" and not end up becoming more "freebie hunters" |
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Pinos Ling
Registered User
Join date: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 99
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02-23-2009 04:30
From: Argent Stonecutter Um, Pinos, most of the good freebies ARE "only creator can make copies". Never noticed that. I would like to use that for my products. Can you indicate me how?
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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02-23-2009 05:00
The creator can always make copies. The permissions set by the creator are all "next owner" permissions. If you set the next-owner permissions to "no copy" then nobody else will be able to make copies but you. If you set them to "no transfer" then people can make copies, but they can't transfer them to anyone else, so they can't give anyone else a copy.
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