Just How Bad is the SL Economy

Ahh I see what you`re saying.


Well, I guess it boils down to personal preference. I am not trying to make an 'excuse' for what I am doing because I see nothing wrong with it.

Not everyone is internet, or SL, savvy. I just found it easier to be able to say "If you see anything being resold that is one of my products, report it to me".

The average customer is not going to go completely out of their way to report stolen goods in the first place. Most do not even report because they assume the creator already knows. I do not expect someone to click boxes and see if it is just an innocent resell. Do I have time to sim hop and do that? No. Atleast this way, if someone reports reselling to me, I know for a fact, it has got to be stolen.

I don`t know, agree or disagree. I just found it easier to be able to say that.

We have a choice permission system for a reason, different things work for different people. I was just trying to give another reason for why I do no transfer.

LOL

this is not RL...

in real life we can not change an outfit at the click of a button (a reason for copy permissions)

in real life we can not make a back up to something we might want to make changes to (another reason for copy button)

this is not RL

This is a fantasy world we live in and in a fantasy world, I can make exact duplicates of my clothes, or house, or car, or etc....
in this fantasy world I can change my clothes, shoes, hair, skin, etc at the click of a button...

all good reasons for copy (and no transfer, cuz copy and transfer is a bad idea for any business, except the full perm business stuff, such as textures, clothing templates, and many other things)

I`m not trying to justify ANYTHING. I was simply trying to explain my reasoning behind what I do since everyone seemed to be misunderstanding my initial post.

It does boil down to that.. I do what I do because I do. Don`t like it, don`t buy it.

Now, I am removing myself from this discussion because I believe it is getting out of hand.

A reason is either based on something real or it is just a fantasy.
They are myths and memes because they simply are not true or only true in the very rarest of circumstances, so much so that you have better chances of winning a lotto - lol.
Saying you only do something because of a reason and then that being shown to be ill-informed only leaves you with the reason that you do it because you want to.
If that is the only reason that stands up to real scrutiny then you are better off stating this before hand.

The reason does not "work for them" they are being used as excuses for "this is just my way". The latter I can understand a lot better than the former.

Wow, Comparing this to real life, I think you need a break.

No it is not RL but many people want it to be like RL only better and those people are buying big houses and lots of high fashion items. They will want shopping to be as understandable and natural to them as RL.

but...again, who is to say who is right or wrong...

permissions are a personal preference to the creator. regardless of what can and can not be done or the reasons why...

ok so you educated jess on the reasons you feel he should not have to have no transfer items, but he (in my guess) will continue to offer no transfer, and he will tell people why he offers no transfer... are you saying he is lying? ill informed? after all he is educated as to your reasons but chooses his own...

personally I do not need anyone to "set me straight"

I know what can and can not happen in SL... if anyone asks me what are the dangers or consequences involved with specific permissions sets I will tell them (and how high of a chance those consequences may have)

I do not consider that... "lying"

do you?

Here we have an admission from Jesse himself. He does it because he wants to. He has now dropped any other reasons for doing it.

Jesse I hope you realise that I am not getting at your choices and it is in no way personal OK? You are definitely entitled to chose what you want. However it is the saying that other things are the motivations for what you do that I am trying to cut through here and show how empty they really are.
They are myths and memes only, empty reasons.

I missed this....

why do you even feel the need to take issue with any of this?

it is not up to you to decide what is right or wrong.... there is no right or wrong (at least not to me)

maybe I am alone in that, maybe there is a right and wrong way to do this... until I am proven that I am doing it wrong, I will continue to do it the way I do it

If that is the case then many need a break. SL and RL are compared all the time.
People bring their RL to SL and so it is entirely relevant, unlike your observations which I might add are better being kept to yourself unless you have some other to offer this discussion. Thank you.

I didn't mean I was setting you straight, it was hypothetical to highlight a point.
Again you seem to be thinking this is about Jesse or You, it is not at all. However facts are facts. No reasons that have been brought up in this thread for not giving transfer permissions have stood up to any kind of scrutiny and boil down to "too hard" or "too time consuming".

I keep saying that a vendor has the right to choose but no vendor is in a vacuum, their choices affects who they sells to and who wants to patronize their shop.
There are a group of people, of which I am one who would rather go to a vendor who is settings their permissions with their customers in mind rather than their own desires - that is the crux of the matter.

Of course it is lying.
If you repeat something you know to be untrue or only true in a very unusual set of highly unlikely set of circumstances in order to justify something, then it is lying. However perhaps misrepresenting the truth might be a better description.
However that was still lying when I was a child.

so now you speak for everyone? or many people?

how do you know they want it to be like RL only better? hell for all we know, their RL might be awesome and they want fantasy... who knows...

Nice, an endless discussion about permissions.

With skins for example, no-transfer indeed does make sense. They were ripped in the past, and they will be ripped in the future. By selling no-transfer, everyone selling that skin and not being the merchant himself, is a fraud. No need to check anything further. Seems easy to grasp that point of view.

With furniture, most stores sell no-copy, personally I do not see the need for no-mod or no-transfer. Especially transfer seems important to me, as people get tired of a couch, buy another one, and sell/give away the one they got tired of. And if someone wants to buy a zillion of my beds to resell them, they have my blessing Modify is needed for my configuration note cards, though I can understand people selling furniture no-mod. Indeed is resizing of a chair/couch/bed killing for the contained animations. Still, I never had anyone coming back saying they screwed up their purchase. And if they would, they get a new one.

With clothes, most people probably prefer copy-mod. No mystery there, mod is needed for any prim part of the outfit, copy because otherwise it cannot be used in different outfits. Hell, I am a man, seldom change my avatars clothes, and even I use outfit folders
Still it is a shame one cannot give away a dress that is not used anymore, a flaw in the permission system.

Then we do have prefabs, where t was made very clear by an established prefab merchant that copy-mod is the most successful way to sell prefabs. And very well explained why. Nothing to add there.

So in the end the discussion is about multiple versions of the same item, with different permissions. Which is a lot of extra work, so the question is, do we get to pick the fruits of that extra work in extra sales?
For most products in SL, I dare to say no. Each item has to be created in 2 versions, 2 different textures have to be uploaded for the vendors (or use floating text, well never in my store), and for people with single item vendors, they need double the prims for their vendors. As I said, a lot of extra effort.

Well for furniture I did try it, and it was very useless. Probably I can count the number of sales from the copy-vendors on the fingers of one hand. So I stopped with that system. Saves me a lot of time, in which I can create new stuff. Yet if anyone asks me for a copyable item, I deliver it when the price is agreed upon. It is way easier to change the permissions on 1 item that is asked for, then to do it for each and every item you create.

As a merchant, you cannot cater to everyone. Well you can, but it would not be interesting from a commercial point of view. You have to project your efforts against your sales. And if that means that you miss a few customers that did want it slightly different then you offered it, so be it. In the end that might be smarter then spending many hours to try and please everyone, instead of creating stuff.

omg yes this was about jess and I

every time we stated a reason you felt the need to prove that reason as bogus

I say that jess's reason for why he does it the way he does is a solid reason for why HE DOES IT the way he does and it is not up to you, or me to disprove any of it.

every time I posted a reason for something, you had to "dispel" that reason, like it was worthless or stupid, or whatever, when in fact it is a fact that people can do malicious stuff with mod/transfer objects etc.

yes vendors have the right to use whatever permissions they want
and yes you as a consumer have every right to not shop at places that do not cater to your wants

does that mean the vendor will lose sleep over it... I doubt it

we can not please everyone
you want mod/transfer... the next person wants copy/mod

so who do we cater to if our only option is to use one or the other as our base sales structure? (and I have already stated my reasons for not offering both options in the store.)

I don't have to speak for everyone and their are many. You only have to look at how many MacMansions are sold or people going around wearing bling and cartier watch replicas to know that it is many. Are you disputing that? Don't you get out much in SL?

I think it is safe to say that many people come to SL to make it like a RL+. Many of these buy big houses, big boats, big screen TVs etc.
And yes I think I can certainly saying they want shopping to be natural and understandable as much as their RL expectations allow.
At least until they have been here long enough to know different.

Many does not mean most, nor all.
Many means many and there are many.

Just like there are many who come for fantasy and to escape RL bounds.

Who is to say which is most? Certainly not I and I have not done so either.

(Ok I`m probably going to regret re-entering the ring but I don`t need words put into my mouth.

I will try to make this my last post. Because at this point, we are going in circles.)

No. I said it BOILS DOWN to I do what I do because of what I do. I never dropped any other reason. I still stick with my main reason.

I`m not trying to change your mind, frankly, I have had no issues with my items being no transfer. And if someone gets a new account and I have a log of their old purchases, I have never had any issue with giving their new account the items. I have good customer service despite my No trans permission. I really never viewed it as being a downfall to my business.



I do agree with you here. And I did not post to try to pass whatever test you are trying to hand out.

The reason behind my reasoning is simply because it is entirely too time consuming. But perhaps too time consuming in a way different then what you may be thinking.

My days are busy with work. I do not have time to sim hop going down the list of "Hi Jesse, I hate to inform you but <enter sim name here> is selling your items" *wait 10 minutes for it to rez*... *spend another 10 flying around their unorderly shop trying to find the box with my item displayed on it* *Clicking the box to check if its a legal or illegal redistribution*....

I do not have the time. By making everything no transfer, I no that TPing out to the sim and spending time finding the offending box, it is going to be an illegal redistribution.

Fot my business, and me personally, no transfer works just fine. And I intend to keep it this way for as long as I am part of Second Life.

well said marcel (I removed some for space sake heh)

yes I agree about the floating text, don't much like it either especially if it is on every sales prim in the store)

and yep, it is hard to please everyone, can't be done, so I have decided (awhile back) to please the copy/mod crowd, and that is what I will be offering all my items as (once I redo them all)

if that means I lose some potential customers because they do not want to take the time to request mod/transfer permissions so be it. (I will have a sign as I mentioned earlier that I will redo permissions upon request)

I take issue because I am a consumer and vendors should listen to what consumers want. They fail to do so at the expense of their revenue I say.

Not you miss my point entirely - it is not about Jesse and you. Get over yourself, it is about what people want. Why they are not necessarily getting it.
The reason I debunked all the arguments against mod and/or transfer is that they were all bogus and not because I want or need you and Jesse to change your shops. To think so is laughable.

actually not disputing it, but only speaking for myself

and no I do not get out in SL much, I prefer to not socialize all that much, too many unkind people out there. Plus I like helping newbies and do not see many of them with the stuff you mentioned

(and I like creating, which means I do not go out, never was much for "going out" and that is not a bad thing)

and I daresay, many come here to live a fantasy life, or do you dispute that?
(what you say, can be said in the opposite, not only yours can be right ya know)

I am not going to quote Marcel's rather long post but I will respond to some of the points there.

Markets do not stay the same, the successful status quo of yesterday may not be as successful going forward. To say things are this way because they have worked is blindfolded at best.
Nobody can say that if mod/trans were being offered by some of these vendors that they would not be doing even better.
Nobody is arguing that mod/copy does not work, we are arguing that a portion of the market will simply walk away from those options.

take issue if you want, that is your choice
(you are 1 consumer, 1 out of the 1000's yes... 1000's I have spoken to about permissions and what folks want) it will not be at the expense of my revenue...

I have heard your arguments and I choose to do it my way, if you have an issue with that, then too damn bad.

I don't want someone telling me how I should set my permissions

Re-read my edit of the post you responded to.

Where did I say that many don't come for fantasy reasons? You are putting words in my mouth. Why would I dispute that many come for fantasy as well.

"Many" can encompass two or more groups of people.

and I could say right back to get over yourself, because it not about what other people want, it is about what you want (but I am not the kind of person that would imply I think someone thinks they are above anyone else and tell them to get over themselves, so I won't say it)

it is actually about what the creator wants to put as permissions, and if you do not like those permissions then tough, shop elsewhere...

I would not change my shop for you, to think I would or even mention that I think you want me to is down right ludicrous

and I do not think you debunked anything, people will still choose whatever permissions they want, for whatever reason they want, and I highly doubt anything you (or I) had to say here will have anything to do with it

Then you an I are not in disagreement. What is too hard for you may not be for another. After all many people do not get adequate compensation for their time and skill, for people who put more into each outfit or prefab than they know for sure they will get back, attempting to get a bigger market share via a little more time spent probably would not worry them.