Just How Bad is the SL Economy

Having to convert 1000s is only if you didn't start out that way, some businesses may start by offering this option and so avoid this step. Even for established businesses there is no need to convert old stock necessarily, just start with the new stock and continue your old offer on old stock.
Do not necessarily need different pictures for just different perms either. My vendors show perms as an option in the hovertips or hover text.
There are other ways of dealing with this. I disagree that it is really any more work than offering it upon request. Even if it turned out to be a tad more, is it not worth it for more custom? You are presuming perhaps incorrectly that it will not help, you could be wrong. Some people seem to manage it just fine.
Also it is strange how the argument has shifted from it being risky to allow modifiable items out as transfer to now it being too much work. That leads me to confirm my believe that this is just a storm in a tea cup.

You will have bigger risks elsewhere in your business, these slight risks are not even worth much thought.

I have disagreed with Porky also, he has not offered any proof that there would be a tidal surge of people wanting to exchange broken goods for fixed ones.
If indeed the market is smaller for mod/trans prefabs then that only makes the support and replacement service smaller too. It cannot be both ways. Either there is a huge market and it is worth the hassles or it is small and there will be relatively few hassles.

a lot of my furniture has textures specially made for the sculpties, and some have scripts that break when reset.. Also the sit target gets messed up with resizing..

we have sold copy/mod on some items like these but ended up having to fix the textures and resend on more than a few occasions.

Our store policy .. we do copy on request. Our prices are low enough that trans only is not a bad deal. I know some people dont shop with us because of that, but we do have a great many happy customers.

Stop making this a personal thing Rha, stick to the discussion without bringing me personally into it.
I have clearly stated, I would ideally like the option and if not then I would like mod/trans. That is not having it all nor wanting it all.

You can feel all you want about me but that does not represent me in anyway. I would and have paid premium prices for mod/trans over mod/copy before. I don't mind paying premium prices at all to get what I want. So stop projecting about me - you do not know what I will do or not do.

Now if we can get back to discussing issues instead of specific people and their habits this will not descend further from this point.

You cannot always do this, some type of markets do indeed require different permission sets.
However there are markets where offering mod/trans would be inappropriate. I can think of one and I am sure there are others. Basically anything that requires one or more objects need to be copiable in order to operate correctly are such cases.
I am saying though, that more of the fashion and prefab markets could offer mod/trans if they wanted to. It is not idle speculation, there are actually vendors in both markets doing it and so it must be possible.

ok I am done this debate back and forth

I have stated my opinions and why I feel the way I do

I have stated that I am more than willing to offer alternate perms to anyone who requests them

I am not going to offer both options in my store, and if that means I may lose some customers, then so be it

If someone can not take the time to send a simple IM asking me to switch the perms, I guess they do not want it that badly.

I am done stressing about SL, and if I get sales.

you can want what you want, that doesn't mean you will always get it (general you)

As a store owner/creator, I will do what feels right for me. That is the best I can do (and yes it is about me, because I am doing this to have fun, not to stress out anymore)

you made it personal by stating what "you" want. you can not speak for all of SL, just like I can not speak for all the creators in SL

so therefor I can only speak for myself (which I did in my previous post) and you can only say what you want, therefor making it personal.

whether I like or dislike you is not the issue (and I have never stated either, as I am indifferent)

I don't know why you feel the need to tell us that you are done at such length. You also seem upset as if this is all personal and about you or your business. I assure you that it isn't. There is no need to get upset about it at all. Nobody is pressuring you to change your business Rha, certainly not me.
This discussion is aimed at all vendors and hopefully some of them will take note and decide to give me and people like me the options that we prefer. That is all.

I did not make it personal at all. I only talking my preferences to serve as an example in these discussions. Also I never once mentioned you or your business, even as an example. I just dealt with the issues you presented. I kept it general and impersonal.

You posted:



How can that be taken as anything but personal? It is not a general comment at all. In fact you even name me.

You didn't speak just for yourself, you tried to speak for me. This is where you made it personal. I never said it was about liking or disliking anyone - you still made it personal when there was no need.

and if you look again, you will see I said it "seems" like you want it all without wanting to pay the extras

and yes it is personal, to each and every one of us posting here, because we are individuals, and as such, we will (or at least I will) take things on a personal level

(doesn't mean I am upset or insulted or feeling pressured, just means I take it personally to some degree)

*shrug*

have a nice day

No Rha, if you had said it like that there would not have been a problem.

I'll post it again:


The "seems" was just a get out clause for the whole post, otherwise you would not have followed it up with an accusation.

You say "You don't care about how much work goes into getting those options there out for you" and that you "a have feeling you would not want to pay extra though". One is an accusation and the other is casting an aspersion. Both highly personal and in no way even necessary.

Had you wanted to say it in a non-personal general way you would have said something like: -

"Some seem to want it all. Often people don't care about how much work goes into getting those options ready for them. I have a feeling that some would not want to pay extra though."

You did say something like that in the past too, "You cannot please everyone" and I didn't take one bit of exception to that. That is because that was impersonal and not directed at me.

Sorry, the approach of saying something personal and then saying I read it wrong is not going to wash. The meaning of what you wrote was pretty clear even if you didn't mean it that way.
If you didn't mean it that way then you should have just said that you didn't mean it instead of denying it means that at all.

I am so tired of this bullshit every time. I should not even have to explain the difference.

/me is getting tennis neck

It was a pretty decent discussion until this really

I'm not a vendor but from a consumer's point of view, all I can say is look at June Dion (Bare Rose). Her store is always crowded, even though it's huge; and sales are brisk enough she makes a RL living out of her store (so I've heard).

Nothing she has is priced over 200L, you get several colors/pieces usually per item, and the quality is ALWAYS top. She isn't selling something that can be made in appearances/edit mode...she isn't selling flat textures. I think she takes her own digital pix of fabric and makes her own textures but if not, all I can say is I can't find a flaw in her work.

People want variety in their SL wardrobes, and some people camp for their money. Vendors who price their gowns at 700L and up, will not tend to see the consistent sales of someone with more fair pricing as well as consistent high quality product.

Even in a RL recession certain RL brands do well because people know they get quality for their money. But with SL clothing? Most fashionistas aren't gonna wear the same thing a lot, so keep prices on the lower end while keeping quality something they can be proud to wear.

As for furniture something a bit different than the boxy stuff with haphazard textures is going to stand out more - and again I think when word gets out about fair prices sales will pick up. (That wasn't to Bradley or anyone specific)

Maybe rather than falling sales it's more a question of some lazier creators got a free ride for a while during the brisker economy - and now it's quality and fair prices that will prevail?

Certainly you might have something here Clarissa. Recently I find myself in little out of the way boutiques that are priced from around 200-300 tops and the quality is fabulous, the designs are often fresh and not just the skankwear you used to find in the lower price bracket.

I guess the bottom line is that no matter what anyone does, not everyone will be pleased, not everyone will be happy, and not everyone will shop at any one given place.

Me, I do the best I can to assist those who take the time to shop at my store. If someone tells me they want some specific set of permissions or clothing layer, etc, I am happy to help.


I do not go into any store (be it SL or RL) and expect everything I want, right there at my fingertips, and I will not hesitate to ask the creator for specific colors, layers, or permissions.

I guess not everyone wants to take a couple minutes to ask the creator, they would rather have it at their fingertips.
If that means I lose them as a customer... so be it, because I never had them as a customer to begin with.

I can not believe we are rehashing the permissions debacle again, what next... what layers to offer in a clothing pack? What colors? Should there be multiple color packs or sold separately?

(I think we covered all those and more previously)

ahhh well... back to updating WOW... where life is much more simpler... plus you get to kill stuff!!

Gabriele: thank you, and yes, I love finding places like that!

As for the freebies debate I noticed, skimming the thread just now (will read more later), I think freebies/dollarbies are definitely *good*. IMO, those who do not return would not have anyway. Essentially they were freebies-shoppers who got a better looking item than they would've found at a freebie-mall, and SL is prettier because of it.

If I get a freebie I like, I definitely go back and look for more by that creator. Always put a pic and a landmark in with a freebie and people *will* return even if much later, to find something similar or out of curiosity. I've returned way later, when I needed something in that category that I didn't need when I got the free/one linden item originally. So they do work as marketing tools imo.

RL they are called 'loss leaders'. People go to Ikea to get that $10 bowl or bar stool or whatever and leave with a sofa.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Clarissa

^ Ahh you guys calm down


"...makes it that much more hard for someone else to buy one of my items and transfer it into a thieves account so he or she can rip it."

I never intended for this to be a cure. But taking measures to protect myself makes it "that much more hard" for someone to steal it. The main reasoning here is that *because* my items are no transfer, if my customers see any item being sold by someone else, they immidiately know it had to have been stolen, and notify me of it. I have amazing customers. It really surprises me the things they find, and where they find it.

Having no transfer/no mod items does not hurt me. Atleast not to a degree that I can feel. SL is what I do to pay my bills and mortgage in RL, so I must be doing something right..Some how.

Thankfully there are many clothing stores in SL, if someone doesn`t like it they can pass on to the next shop.

Cheap is still cheap, be it quality or price. And though i own several outfits from Bare Rose, I generally do not buy from them because the items are so cheaply priced that you often run into someone else wearing the same thing you are, though in a different color.

If i run into someone wearing a Nicky Ree i am wearing, i do not mind as much because I know it is still not so common because of the 4 figure Linden price, but Bare Rose stuff is everywhere - and some of it is really really nice like, White/Black Mist, both of which i own and used to wear often until i ran into 3 separate people wearing the same thing.

Great stuff, too cheap in price.

Chip Midnight where are you when I need you to expound so eloquently as you do on clothes pricing in SL?

If you mean Rha and I when you wrote this then it is unnecessary, as firstly the exchange has been over for some time and secondly I was perfectly calm already thanks. Though I expect you mean well, people telling me to calm down is only going to irritate me.

I fail to see how you not allowing transfer gives you anymore or allowing transfer gives you any less problems with theft.
If you are worried about copy-botting then perms will not matter.
If one of your customers sees someone else selling stuff that you once sold then why should it concern them? It could only ever be however many copies they original purchased at most.
If would be easy to determine if it is a copy-botted item or not.

So where exactly are you gaining or losing by denying it or allowing it?

Don't get me wrong I don't even care whether you personally do or do not offer transfer but I if there are good reasons that have not been stated that the general market should take into consideration before going ahead with allowing transfer then I would like to know what those reason are.

Have a drink of:



It does wonders for your complexion.

By the way, are you ever not calm? You are always calm, cool and collected and it is refreshing.

could not have said it better myself

never was um... riled up I guess would be the term, to have to calm down

(and yep, as far as I could tell too, it was over with)

anywho... as to the actual topic of this thread... which was um..

oh! how bad is the SL economy...
guess that depends on who you talk to at any given time heh

my impression of the comments about not allowing transfer to be able to keep a handle on stuff being resold (or illegal copies being sold) makes sense, but only if one never ever did a transferable item, or keeps track of the items that were transferable


basically what I understand it as, is if she doesn't allow people to resell, and one of her loyal customers tell her they see her stuff for sale elsewhere, then she is pretty darn sure that it is an illegal copy...

am I correct in this interpretation?

(if so, then it is her reason to not allow transfer)

not sure where no mod comes into the picture though (and not entirely sure what the op of that comment sells, so would a mod item be easily copied and resold?)

*shrug*

everyone will have his or her reason to use the permissions they use, just as everyone will have his or her reason to desire specific permissions and choose to shop or not shop because of what it offered.

I would not fault either side for their decisions, and I would hope that people do not fault me for choosing to set the permissions I do.

(to paraphrase another poster, there are a lot of stores in SL, if they choose to shop elsewhere, good for them)

How could it be an illegal copy? Either it was purchased somewhere along the line and therefore it is not illegal in any way or it was copybotted and the perms you use do not matter. The latter being obvious because the creator name is different.

I will ask once again, how does one get an illegal copy of a transferable item that is preventable by making it no transfer?

PS. Jesseaitui is a man.