Just How Bad is the SL Economy
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 10:15
From: Jojogirl Bailey in a previous post someone told rha that it was hard to find her store....that is HUGE info and anyone who was not persistant would have given up looking. actually not so much hard, as they did not want to look up my profile in world and click a link from my picks personally I think that is the easiest way to find any store, if the owner tells you it is in my picks no mention of if they tried a search or any of that as for the random person trying to find my store just by searching key words, yeah it probably needs work, however I did try the suggestions given to me (at least the ones I understood) I will admit I am not good at marketing, the whole thing confuses me. and I have tried reading everything I can sometimes one just has to decide what they can do and can not do and go with that oh jojo... also a question what if the group system is not the inworld group, but a hippo group, how would one set up a group members only gift for a non SL group type thing? (I know when in world groups, one can set the item to sell only to group members)
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar.  They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Jojogirl Bailey
jojo's Folly owner
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,094
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02-15-2009 10:23
rha i also have a subscribomatic group and im assuming hippo works in a similar way.
what i do is add in the items i want to give the group - right into the kiosk - along with a lm to my store. then i send a note to the subscribo group telling them that there is a new freebie for them in the kiosk...so come on in and get it. they get the msg and a lm...they just have to come into the store and click in the kiosk to select the gift.
in case anyone is wondering if folks come into my group to get the freebies and then leave the group...the vast majority of them do not. i see their names all the time and the total group number climbs slowly but steadily.
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Director of Marketing - Etopia Island Corporation
Marketing and Business Consultant
Jojo's Folly - Owner
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Belle Loll
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 260
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02-15-2009 10:24
I give out one freebie at my stores. One of the first things I ever created...a seasonal dance ball. I made it with free scripts and free dance animations. I do take care on the texture whenever I change it for the next season. It is copy and mod...they can then go buy their own favorite dances and put in it but they are no transfer. They can learn from the scripts if they want to take the time to. I also have one lucky chair at my mainland store I keep at a "whisper" and I do believe it draws in a few customers I may not gotten otherwise. I have to laugh because yesterday an avie came and bought 10 Valentine dance balls for zero L ..which have a great texture on them if I say so myself I know she was planning on giving them out for Valentine presents and I almost IM'd to let her know they were not transfer and she could have just copied the first one she bought. But I figured she would figure it out herself soon enough. My thought on freebies (and I do not sell clothes so I cannot say anything on that subject) is that I put a lot of thought in my creations, take time in creating them and make sure they are something I would buy myself for whatever price I put on them. Sometimes I upload 15 textures trying to find just the right one..either to alter it if there is something I do not like about it or to make the item better. And only sell it for 100L. So until I sell a few of them I am in the hole. So no...I am not big on giving freebies beyond my dance balls and what are in my lucky chair. |
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-15-2009 10:35
I see we're pretty much divided on the topic regarding freebies, which is fair enough.
I think however we're all in agreement that "quality of product" although subjective is very important as is good customer service & support.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 10:43
From: Jojogirl Bailey rha i also have a subscribomatic group and im assuming hippo works in a similar way.
what i do is add in the items i want to give the group - right into the kiosk - along with a lm to my store. then i send a note to the subscribo group telling them that there is a new freebie for them in the kiosk...so come on in and get it. they get the msg and a lm...they just have to come into the store and click in the kiosk to select the gift.
interesting, I never thought of doing it that way yes hippo will let you create a post for the group and not send it and allow people to redeliver I will keep that in mind the next time I feel like putting out a gift, do it for the group only thank you
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Czari Zenovka
I've Had it With "PC"!
Join date: 3 May 2007
Posts: 3,688
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02-15-2009 12:15
From: Girlspeedo Latte I firmly believe that if you get your priorities right ( i.e. creating the best products possible while thoroughly enjoy the process) the rest will take care of itself. My "marketing strategy" is basically what I think would entertain me and my customers that particular day or week. I spend L$50 a week on search listing. And that's the full extend of my marketing budget *grins*. I have no magic formula. I'll leave the clever stuff to others. QFT...and what Jojo said. Honestly...I'm not here to operate a Fortune 500 Company with accompanying business strategy. (Now I know why accountants generally give me a headache.) I worked in several of those types of companies and SL is where I come for relaxation and operating a small shop which may or may not ever make enough money for me to "cash out" is part of that relaxation. Sometimes i wonder which foot the greed is on, eh?
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*Czari's Attic* ~ Relive the fun of exploring an attic for hidden treasures!
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During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.- George Orwell
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-15-2009 13:35
From: Czari Zenovka QFT...and what Jojo said.
Honestly...I'm not here to operate a Fortune 500 Company with accompanying business strategy. (Now I know why accountants generally give me a headache.) I worked in several of those types of companies and SL is where I come for relaxation and operating a small shop which may or may not ever make enough money for me to "cash out" is part of that relaxation.
Sometimes i wonder which foot the greed is on, eh? I think your snide remark was uncalled off.....you shouldn't have to resort to a below the belt type comment. You might have low targets & goals which is fair enough, but doesn't mean we should all follow suit. The fact you have a differing opinions is ok too.....and i'll be the first admit trying to effectively market within the SL enviroment can be a headache.! I think a few of here struggle to read my comments or choose to misinterpretate what i wrote. My "greed" comment referred to how RL Banks & Corporations operated before their big comeuppance and NOT to those who chose to hand out freebies in SL.....although i still think the flood of freebies and dollabies doesn't do much good to the SL economy in the long term......and thats where my concerns lies. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-15-2009 14:42
From: Czari Zenovka Sometimes i wonder which foot the greed is on, eh? Sometimes I wonder why some people are so envious as to make such comments. |
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Bella Posaner
Just say it how it is FFS
Join date: 8 May 2008
Posts: 615
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02-15-2009 15:02
From: sable Valentine As a consumer I don't mind spending more for quality items. What I hate is everyone wearing a knockoff. For example I bought a dress from Blaze last year and I think it was in the 800L -1000L range. I haven't worn it in over a year and was thinking about putting it on for an evening out on the town. Well last week, my hubby and I were at a concert there were at least 6 women that had that vere same dress on but in different colors. Luckily, I didn't wear it. Now, I don't even want the dress anymore. I would love to give it away to a newbie but of course it is "non-transferable" Which I hate even more. I can understand the no copy/no modify, but after I have spent my money its mine and I should be able to give it away if I want to.
Additionally, I am moving away from the more "popular" fashion designers for the same reason and seeking out lessor known designers. Because again, I see a lot of women with the same dresses on.
Please answer why won't designers and I don't just mean in the clothing industry won't allow you transfer? I find that really irritating. This is also one of my pet hates, if it's not copy, why not make it transferable. Don't creators realise that if it's sitting in my inventory unused, no one is going to see it. If I could at least give it away, there's a possibility someone else will see it, find out where to get it and go buy one of there own. |
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Bella Posaner
Just say it how it is FFS
Join date: 8 May 2008
Posts: 615
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02-15-2009 15:11
From: Jojogirl Bailey Ok a few points...yes phil i am a texture fiend. lol
i do not agree about the freebies killing biz..it certainly isnt killing mine. it has actually helped mine tremendously. i give out new free items to my group members by having them come into my store weekly to pick up the free items. they are new releases, not old icky crap that i made. my customers feel that they get treated very well and some tell me they come into my store daily to check and see what is new or what i have marked down for my ongoing secret sale.
to me the key is not some kind of magic or some kind of horrible manipulation...it is finding a need and filling it and then making sure people know you have it for sale. the vast majority of my items are one prim...nothing fancy. but i have learned over time what people want so i make sure they can get it at my store. in fact many items i have for sale started with a customer request for an item. people also know i will mod something on the spot for them and not charge them any extra. i do that for the good will aspects and all i ask in return is that they tell their friends about my store. and that works.
this whole thing is really not rocket science...it is very simple. sometimes i think folks overthink it. but know that simple does not mean EASY. it is work...plain and simple.
i make all my items transfer...many folks will come in and buy one for themselves and several for friends. i also make some items mod, like curtains etc, that need to be resized. i have only recently added some items at a much higher price that are copy. My pricing has always been relatively low so that someone who needs 2 curtains will pay significantly less than someone who needs 20. i have added some copy versions at the request of customers who need like 30 curtains...i calculate the price for 30 and then cut it back...so they still get a great deal, but they still pay more than someone who only needs one of an item. it used to make me crazy when i shopped and say "copy" items at crazy prices when i only needed one and i didnt want to pay that much. so i have set up my pricing in a way that meets that need. I have bought your products and they're great, blinds and curtains need to be mod. I stuffed up two sets of blinds I bought from your store and the way I see it is "to bad for me", I knew it was a possibility when I started messing with them lol. Good to know you have copy stuff now, I will come by and get some |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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02-15-2009 15:19
From: Rene Erlanger I think your snide remark was uncalled off.....you shouldn't have to resort to a below the belt type comment. You might have low targets & goals which is fair enough, but doesn't mean we should all follow suit. The fact you have a differing opinions is ok too.....and i'll be the first admit trying to effectively market within the SL enviroment can be a headache.! I think the point is that variety of content is important in SL, and hurting those people who have "lower goals" but still add varied content to the world is - ultimately - bad for the world. |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 15:31
From: Bella Posaner This is also one of my pet hates, if it's not copy, why not make it transferable. Don't creators realise that if it's sitting in my inventory unused, no one is going to see it. If I could at least give it away, there's a possibility someone else will see it, find out where to get it and go buy one of there own. if you give it to someone, why would they go buy "their own" since they already have the one you gave them. My guess is that folks just got into the habit of making mod/copy as one set of perms and transfer as the other although there can be reasons for specific types of settings, and it is entirely up to the creator what permissions they want on the items.... and no mod with xfer is set that way for various different reasons (as I already pointed out earlier) I myself am not very comfortable with transfer + mod on an item mainly because I know folks make mistakes, and if it is no copy, but they can mod it, there are bound to be mistakes and they do not have a way to make the backup so in my book it is either mod/copy or transfer... (I am one out of how many though??) heh
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
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02-15-2009 15:35
From: Yumi Murakami I think the point is that variety of content is important in SL, and hurting those people who have "lower goals" but still add varied content to the world is - ultimately - bad for the world. My retort was really designed for her snidey "Accountant" comment, which was a sweeping statement too. |
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Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
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02-15-2009 16:11
I have recently been fence hopping on the freebie issue, so I'm going to jump in here too As a fairly new business owner, I knew that I needed some way to get the attention of the masses, especially in a field where competition is intense. I found out about the freebie groups and started using them, and they worked to my advantage. Most people do tp in, grab a freebie and go. But some of them shop, and it was those people who supported my uploads and expenses. My business until that time consisted of selling one or two things a week, and being happy about it. Since that time I have shown growth every month. Not long ago, I made the decision to stop handing out freebies. I decided that I was not looking at the big picture and that handing out the freebies was hurting in the long run, not helping. For about a month I did no freebies (except the gift bag that gets changed out every six months or so), and watched my business slow to a crawl. I quickly recanted my decision. I was wrong. I NEED the people who tp in and grab a freebie. I need them to be able to get my product out there, and to be able to get people in to my shop. And yes, many of them grab and go...but not all of them. Now I offer freebies again. Everytime I have a new release, there is a special version in an off color, or some other thing, that I offer as a freebie along side of it. With competition what it is, I cannot simply sit and wait for everyone in SL to stop handing out freebies....I cannot simply sit at all. If I don't do something every week to somehow promote my product, I will sell little or nothing. So with all due respect to people who do not like people to give freebies, I will continue to do so. It is how I get people into my shop, to see what I have and to see what I charge for my product.
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 Mainstore: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Phantasm/51/164/501 http://rbzdesign.blogspot.com/ I'm not a designer IRL, but I RP one on SL!
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Bella Posaner
Just say it how it is FFS
Join date: 8 May 2008
Posts: 615
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02-15-2009 16:26
From: Rhaorth Antonelli if you give it to someone, why would they go buy "their own" since they already have the one you gave them.
My guess is that folks just got into the habit of making mod/copy as one set of perms and transfer as the other
although there can be reasons for specific types of settings, and it is entirely up to the creator what permissions they want on the items....
and no mod with xfer is set that way for various different reasons (as I already pointed out earlier)
I myself am not very comfortable with transfer + mod on an item
mainly because I know folks make mistakes, and if it is no copy, but they can mod it, there are bound to be mistakes and they do not have a way to make the backup
so in my book it is either mod/copy or transfer...
(I am one out of how many though??) heh That's not what I meant. If I see someone wearing something I like, I click on it and see who the creator is, I will then go to their store and buy it or buy other items they may have there. I'm saying when people are wearing or using your products, that in itself, is a form of marketing. If it's sitting in my inventory, not seeing the light of day, no one is ever going to see it. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-15-2009 16:26
From: Rhaorth Antonelli I myself am not very comfortable with transfer + mod on an item
mainly because I know folks make mistakes, and if it is no copy, but they can mod it, there are bound to be mistakes and they do not have a way to make the backup I think if the vendor is concerned about the buyer or subsequent owners messing up a mod/trans item then I cannot see why advertising that they will replace any messed up items with a new one upon receiving back the original broken but otherwise complete item cannot be done. It would be good customer service and negate any problems with mod/trans. Yes, it is more overhead for the shop owner but often customers want vendors to help them fit things anyway and most vendors are happy to do this. If they are happy to do that then it should follow they should be willing to do this. I see this is an extension of the same service. Most experienced customers will not even need this service. It will only be for less experienced customers. I know I have never asked the vendor to fix or replace a mod/trans outfit that I have broken. Either I fix it myself or if it is too hard to fix or it simply does not work for my av I delete it and chalk it up to experience knowing that nothing the vendor could do would have made it work for me anyway. I personally would like the choice between mod/trans and mod/copy when I go shopping for clothes and hair. If I have to choose one it would be mod/trans. I have never seen a valid reason that cannot easily be worked around for not having the option of transfer on clothes. |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 16:42
it is difficult to please everyone
some want mod transfer some want copy mod some want just transfer some want everything
unless a seller wants to triple their prim usage, or get some scripts that will do that plus work with whatever scripts they are using, then they are only going to be able to advertise one set of permissions
that doesn't mean that if someone wants something bad enough, that they can't ask the seller to alter the permissions (no harm asking)
*shrug*
this who permissions topic has been brought up time and time again, and there is no solid answer
you just can't please everyone
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 16:44
From: Bella Posaner If I could at least give it away, there's a possibility someone else will see it, find out where to get it and go buy one of there own. this is the part I misunderstood, now I see what you mean I thought the someone else would be the person you gave it to, not another person seeing it on the person you gave it too sorry about that and thank you for clarifying I am currently in the process of switching all permissions to copy/mod as I have had more requests for me to switch the permissions from transfer to copy (with mod optional and up to me) *shrug*
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-15-2009 16:47
My post was to highlight that mod/trans can be done without too much concern about people messing it up and no so much to focus on having choice. I would be happy with one choice as we have today, just it being mod/trans instead of mod/copy. Very few are pleasing all the people today either but mod/copy is mostly offered - I would like to see that change personally. I have absolutely zero use for multiple copies of the same outfit.
I am of the mind that vendors do not want you giving or selling the outfit you bought to another person and that is the only reason they will not offer mod/trans. There is no good reason for not wanting people to give or sell on the outfits they buy.
It is very bad for the customer in my opinion.
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Belle Loll
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 260
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02-15-2009 16:48
From: Gabriele Graves
I personally would like the choice between mod/trans and mod/copy when I go shopping for clothes and hair. If I have to choose one it would be mod/trans. I have never seen a valid reason that cannot easily be worked around for not having the option of transfer on clothes. I totally agree with Gabriele on this..if I had a choice it would be mod/trans for me to. Too many times I've had to trashed something I just bought because I could not get it to fit right. When I have to do that...I usually do not go back that seller. I don't think Rene Erlanger is trying to offend anyone by posting a personal opinion. I think what Rene is trying to say is that there is a bigger picture than what we are seeing now. Rene has seen a time when quality freebies were not the norm in SL (they were just cheap junk you ended up trashing) and avies actually shopped and knew they had to pay for quality items. Currently most newbs shop for quality freebie's..not to actually buy anything. While using quality freebies works for a lot of us now to draw in new business ....long term this is not so good for our business. And it may not be this year or even next....but it will hurt us all. If I am understanding right..Rene is not condemming anyone for using freebies to draw in customers. Just asking us to think about how it may have an affect on our businesses in the future. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-15-2009 16:50
My understanding, from what I've read in the forum, is that many people want copy so that they can make outfit folders. And copy must not be trans, of course.
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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02-15-2009 16:53
There may also be many who want mod/trans instead. The forums are not representative, yada, yada, yada.
There are no figures to suggest which is preferred by the majority of people. Many people just tend to accept the status quo even if it is not the best option for them.
Mod/Copy is chosen because it is best for the vendor (if their opinion) and not because it is necessarily what the user base wants.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 16:53
one of the most prolific arguments I have gotten regarding selling items copy (mod optional) is that they like to make outfit folders and like the ability to copy the item (be it hair, shoes, pants, shirt, dress, etc) into each outfit folder it is part of.
(as Phil mentioned while I was typing)
so we have the ones on one hand that want to be able to pass it along
and the ones on the other hand that want to be able to copy it to create different outfit folders
who do we, as the store owners and creators, decide to cater to?
That is a question that only the creator/store owner can answer.
me, personally, I will have a sign in my store, that will state that they can request an item with transfer (mod optional) permissions, all they need to do is ask.
(once I finish the whole permission change.)
my shop is all over the place right now, so I need some consistency, so I made the prices all the same, now working on permissions to be all the same, then redo ads in the process of redoing permissions, to reduce load time.
once I get that stuff all done, I will then get back to making stuff again
Edited to add: I do not base mine on what the forum goers say, I ask folks in world, I ask customers, I get requests, etc
of course they are not the whole of SL, but they are 1 shopping at my store, so of course I want to cater to them, and 2 people on the random, who just might someday shop at my store. and 3 requests... I think that speaks for it's self
I can not help it if someone doesn't want to take the time to ask me to switch the permissions... I will cater to what I see as the majority (at this time, to my own knowledge)
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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Belle Loll
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 260
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02-15-2009 16:56
And that's a good point Phil. While I personally do not make outfit folders...would make an out of control inventory even more so...I can see where there is a need for copy/mod no transfer stuff. I try to only buy transfer stuff now though...that way if I do get tired of something which all of us ladies do then I can give it to someone who may need it or put it in a RFL garage sale. But I admit...I am not the norm And Rhaorth...if I seen from your sign that I could something transfer that I really like..I would be a return customer. |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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02-15-2009 17:00
From: Belle Loll And that's a good point Phil. I personally do not make outfit folders...would make an out of control inventory even more so...I can see where there is a need for copy/mod no transfer stuff. I try to only buy transfer stuff now though...that way if I do get tired of something which all of us ladies do then I can give it to someone how may need it or put it in a RFL garage sale. But I admit...I am not the norm And Rhaorth...if I seen from your sign that I could something transfer that I really like..I would be a return customer. as a consumer yeah I too do not make outfit folders and have a ton of stuff I would love to have the abilty to hand over to someone else (especially hair and shoes) but as a merchant I need to think about what might garner sales (and as mentioned in my last post, I have had more requests for copy, than I have for transfer, also just randomly asking folks their preferences, etc) And yes that is what the purpose of the sign is for, so folks will KNOW I am willing to assist and do what works for them (to a degree of course, I would not make something copy/transfer, unless it is a full perm item, and I only have one full perm item for sale, and that is on xstreet and not in store) heh
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From: someone Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life...
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