Just How Bad is the SL Economy

It is much less easy if you cannot find what you are looking for anymore in the mess of folders in a bloated, disorganised inventory, that you failed to give a decent name to because it was just a slight variation on an outfit. Sure that would not be everyone but hey want do the majority of people complain about here and in world at some point or another? Yep you guessed it - inventory bloat, disorganisation and not being able to easily find things.

Seriously if people could sell what they accumulated upon leaving then I think that would be great. I mean we don't make people leave their all their full perm business items when they leave do we? No they are allowed to sell them bulk to the highest bidder. There are some peoples inventories that would fetch a fortune and some that nobody would be interested in. There would be items of historical interest in the early accounts that are now considered lost for the most part.

a few points and questions..

Why do clothing vendors seem to prefer using vendors or scripts in sales boxes? To me, any script adds to the lag, so wouldnt it make more sense for single outfits or items to just use a prim and set the contents for sale or a copy of the loaded prim for sale?

but it does..
I like to wear certain shoes with certain combinations..
but typing in the shoes
then the pants
then the shirt
then the jacket..
instead of
outfit A .. click and go.

thats why i like it. it is my personal preference. and there is no way that you can keep arguing and make me change my mind.

it seems that you will keep arguing until ppl either just give up posting here and the thread dies (which is a pity because the real meat of it.. ie how ppl are doing in the SL economy was tres interesting)
or carry on arguing in the hope of having everyone agree with you, which is impossible..

I highly suggest you start your own thread about copy vs trans .. or even revive one of the many necrothreads about the topic.

Right, but the solution to that is to make inventory management better, not to require everyone to manage their inventory in the way that Gabriele Graves does.
It's undeniable that there are technical improvements that could be made to the inventory system - it could be a database instead of a tree for starters - but that's irrelevant to the permissions issue.

Sure, but all of those ignore the reality of the hundreds of users who leave SL and who would deprive creators of hundreds of sales if they could resell, or even give away, their items.

This is actually what most clothing vendors do, that I have seen.

Some of them have moved to supporting gift cards, and that requires a scripted box, but that is far from the norm.

I would like to see some actual statistics before I believe that this does any more to curb theft than DB's "Copybot Protector".

Nobody is prevented from doing mix and match with no copy. period. I can do all that but with a few different clicks. A person like you will spend those extra clicks finding tnings in their bloated inventory.

and when you have nothing left to add, then come the personal remarks and attacks. Very admirable. Not.
Keep your personal assessment of me to yourself, they are just empty words.
If you don't like it then stop reading, no one is forcing you. I cannot exactly debate this on my own now can I?
Why don't you go to a thread that is more of your liking or start a "About the economy - part deux?

ok so I do not have statistics on it, and it just my opinion, much like everything else in this thread

I believe that if the store only offers copy no transfer items, they will be less likely to be copy botted, because it is much easier to be caught (since the only place selling legit copies are the actual creators store)

but, as I said no actual statistics
*shrug*

I happen to agree with Jess for why he does it and I think it is a good idea... last I knew I was entitled to an opinion, just like everyone else here (be they for mod/transfer, mod/copy, no mod, or full perms, each of us have our own preferences, and there is no right or wrong involved)

It is not my way - I merely borrowed the idea. It is called being organised. I gave me as an example of how it could be done - I keep my inventory highly organised because it is smarter to do so. There are more than one way to keep it organised though. We should not be encouraging disorganised inventories by making it easier to leave them that way.

*plays violin* they have sold those items already, they have no good reason to stop people giving/selling them on. I don't believe this would collapse the economy - it is just a fallacious myth/meme. There is not a scrap of evidence to suggest it will.

Well... you like the word personal attack, dont you
and.. phhht its early morning here.. i have already had like 2 cups of coffee and one earthquake..

so if you want to get down to it.. its ok by me. I see this kind of thing as an occasional sport. I really do like it that people have their own opinions, are non judgemental about other ppl's and can disagree with them without screaming ad hominem when other ppl get tired of 2 days of the same posts over and over on the same tired topic.

also i am bored enough to take you on ^^

my inventory.. youve seen it,　right? you know from personal experience that its bloated and a mess?

thats a personal attack and a blatant assumption.

Why does it bother you so much that other people have a preferred way of doing something that differs from the way you do it? how on earth can you feel threatened by that.

I like peanut butter and bacon sandwiches.. I do not and will not ever put jam (jelly) on the same piece of bread as my peanut butter. however.. if thats what titilates someone elses tastebuds.. so be it. it does not bother me.. in fact i am happy that they are happy with their peanut butter and jam. If someone wants to know why i find peanut butter and bacon to be a good combination, I explain how i like salty but not sweet peanuts.. therefor it is a good combination for me.
they can then either make some disgusted comment (which is ok.. i feel the same about peanut butter and jam together) or go and try it for themselves and end up liking it or not liking it.

what i do not like them to do, and I feel they have no right to anyway, is pester me about my preference... it is my preference and i am allowed to have it. it works for me in ways that make me happy.

nothing they can do or say will make me change my mind. I tried peanut butter with jam and formed my own opinions on it.

A person like you will spend those extra clicks finding things in their bloated inventory.

But it is not based on facts and so it becomes FUD and FUD is harmful.

How about you stop telling me what I am saying and start reading what I am saying instead?
I am not saying what you report me as saying at all.

I am saying I believe the whole reason that mod/copy is more prevalent in certainly the fashion industry that mod/trans is due to collusion and a deliberate need want to over-control the movement of content and greed perpetrated by probably a small but influential number of high-flying fashion merchants who have probably been in SL longer that you or me.
It is them that I think the whole market would be better off without, because those types of tactics are damaging.
It has nothing to do with my personal wants at all and what I believe is beneficial to the market.

We should be automatically organising inventories.

That's because no-trans is supported right now and nobody wants to take the risk. If it was removed or stopped being the standard, you would have _much_ lower content sales, as each generation passed their content to the next one. The number of money spenders tends to remain constant over time, so unless there was a fairly big fashion shift (and generations cycle too fast in SL for there to be very many of those), the previous generation could take up a fair bit of the current generation's demand.

it is sad that you actually believe that folks use copy/mod as a permission set due to greed (as a whole) granted yes, some may be like that
and it is not just the "high-flying" merchants that us those permissions, it is many many fashion merchants who use it, myself included, and I take offense to your comments

what you believe is not what necessarily is....

how about you read what I am saying too, you keep trying to twist all the things being said here and "debunking" them as though we are speaking falsely about things, when in fact I have only seen facts spoken here, things that CAN happen with certain permission sets, yet you inject your own interpretation into it, so you can then turn around and "dispel" the falsehoods (in other words you are calling those you disagree with liars, you said it yourself in not so many words)

exactly why do you feel this strong need to try to convince people to use specific permission sets?

it is not likely you will be shopping in each and every store in SL, and there are so many choices that if you dislike one place for whatever reason, then move on to the next.

trying to make it as though the things mentioned here are not worth mentioning is silly.

what may seem trivial to you, might actually help another make up their mind as to how they want to do things.

..........

It takes seconds to make a new layer from the same textures, and the merchant should take all of these things into account when setting the price and they would too. Some merchants do sell multipacks as transfer - so clearly some do not think this way and yet still seem to be able to make it work.

Yup I was just pointing out that no copy does not really limit you in this respect.

a few points and questions..

Why do clothing vendors seem to prefer using vendors or scripts in sales boxes? To me, any script adds to the lag, so wouldnt it make more sense for single outfits or items to just use a prim and set the contents for sale or a copy of the loaded prim for sale? Since i sell furniture, ive never quite understood why clothing folk tend to use the scripted stuff.

if you someone replies to a post of mine with opinions that I find issues with then of course I am going to respond and refute - that is the basis of debating.

seconds??? I wish!

when you make a new clothing layer, you need more than seconds, unless you type really really fast... after all you have to type in the name of the item when you save it

also if you are not knowing about searching out the texture in your inventory and dropping it on the texture window for that layer, it can take up to a minute (for me anyway) for the damn texture window to open, and many times I forget and click it GRRR

exactly what are your reasons for having mod/transfer (besides the abilty to resell or give it away)

I mean.. really, when you buy something in SL, you only get the rights that the creator gave you, be that the right to transfer it, the right to copy it, and/or the right to mod it

you do not HAVE that right on everything, it is not an inherent right in SL to be able to just pass off an item, unless the creator says so.

I am not sure why you are so against the fact that we all have a choice as both creator and consumer.


The way I see it is...
As creator we choose what rights we want to give with an item
as consumer we choose what rights we are willing to accept, and if a store doesn't have the ones we want, we have 2 choices... ask them if they will make a specific set for you, or go to another store

people feeling that they can brow beat someone into offering things the way they want them, is not the way to go.

same is said for everyone posting here

yet some of your comments do come across as a personal attack as well

it just seems you think everyone is attacking you on a personal level, when in fact, we are saying it how we see it, it is your words that make you appear that way to us

(just as my words have made me seem to be a specific way to others, I have learned that no matter what I do, people will have formed an opinion of me that is so far off base it is like they see me as a different person than I am)

maybe that is what is happening here to you.

maybe you do not mean to come across as though you are calling us all liars, and that you want the world to bow to you and do things the way you want them, regardless of how others might want things...

but that is how it comes across to me

(and this is not an attack, merely an observation)(If I were attacking you, believe me, you would know it)

This will never work, how can it - how do you know how people want to organise? There are many variations of organisation techniques depending on what you want or need. How would it choose? Operating systems do not even attempt this on peoples files which are quite analogous to our inventories.

Nope, thats assuming nobody is producing new things that people don't already have. It also does not take into account that people may want to come back and will not sell anything. It does take into account broken content from system changes. It does not take into account the thing I said before about people selling unwanted items as they go, not all at checkout time.

it still reads badly. Maybe it is a language thing.. but to me saying to someone .. a person like you .. is putting them into some category, which in your case is just an assumption.. you dont know me, so how can you qualify me as any kind of person.

Yes, I have a large inventory. But i also have a store with perhaps over a thousand items on sale. To make those items I have textures I have made, sculpties I have made and the corresponding animations (that my partner has made) and scripts that were made to go with them.
I also have a quite large selection of textures, sculpties and animations that i bought before we started making our own.

Everything has its place. I sort and prune regularly. Not to do so would be madness with an inventory of over 50k. Seldom used parts are boxed and categorized... i have folders and sub folders.

The few outfits i like to mix and match.. are sorted into outfit folders. many of them use common parts.

I also have ava settings I use for adjusting things. these are mostly shape mods.. and i dont really bother much about what I am wearing.

For me (like the peanut butter and bacon) this is something that works really well for me. Is time efficient and I am used to it.

There are many people like me with huge inventories that are well sorted and properly maintained. You cannot blithely judge people who dont use your system.. it might be the one that works for you.. in the same way as theirs works for them.

live and let live a little. there are a fair amount of organised ppl out there. and the ones that arent.. maybe there is method in their mayhem. It is not up to someone else to judge them.