Would you pay to attend a live performance?

If I accomplish nothing else...I'm pleased to hear this

Could it be that people just don't know that the venues pay for the majority of the performers??

Probably. They see a tip jar and think that's all they are getting.

Well, I know most of the performers say "don't forget to tip the venue, without them we'd have nowhere to play", but maybe that's too broad.

*has to go off and think about this*

They don't. Some places, though, have moved to tips only precisely because of the ballooning cost of paying for performers. Some have tip-splitting arrangements. If you can swing a better arrangement, that would be good.

This is what I got from that diatribe. You profess to be a champion of SL music but would not pay for it beyond a tip. Anyone with consenting opinions do not have a right to disagree with you.

Are you Phil's alt?

Same pig-headed, know-it-all, self-rightous attitude so you must be.

And speaking of mute ....

If I'm attending a live event I generally give the staff a tip of around L$250 or so. If I was asked to pay then I would be happy to pay up to about that much, but no more, and the staff would get no further tips from me.

The venues also know the costs going into it and if it's going to break them if they don't get tips maybe they should NOT host the shows.

and 5000L is only like 20.00 US sheesh some of the preformers are worth 10 times that others are not worth 1L.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER pay to see a live show where the person is karaoke! Or playing a CD that was labled as LIVE in the events search.

there are to many talented true muscians on SL to spend an hour with some woman or man who had a few beers and think they sound good singing an old elvis song. I want to hear guitar.. piano, or I dont care prerecorded stuff to go along with that guitar and a nice voice, or hell no voice I enjoy instrumental just as well... if some of these wanna-be muscians would gtf off the bus maybe more people would feel fine about paying and the TRUE muscians would be able to get what they are really worth! (there is one woman that has a beautiful voice and she does do karaoke but she is the only excepetion to my own rule because with a band I think she wold blow people away)

I would LOVE to see more comedy on Sl though... Comedy factory etc. I have only found one place and I rather enjoyed it but I can't find it anylonger.

I may but not in that price range.. all depends who it is though, if it's someone famouse playing in SL I probally will.

250L is like 1.25 US. If muscians charge 5000L 20.00 US per show I think most tip like 20L which is .38 US....?? I tip between 250 and 350 and some of my favorties I will tip higher.. ; ) some I tip every show they have and they can count on me to support them.. and purchase their cd's to!


There are a few venues I make a point to tip more than the muscian because I know the costs involved and want to keep comng back there.
And there are some venues I wouldn't tip a dime let alone stay for a show

You are picking out pieces of what I said. You missed that I always tip the artist and I always tip the club. Good lord.....please read everything I said and not just the pieces you don't like.

Interesting thread!

I help out with the management of quite a well known performer in SL. He doesn't use backing cd's, is a professional songwriter, and is pretty damn talented.

Gigs aren't just about turning up and performing, a singer takes about 45 mins pre show to warm up properly, prepare their instruments and equipment (the person I work with uses two high quality guitars, tuned differently for different songs - these guitars being expensive pieces of kit in themselves), he has invested a fair amount of money in order to bring a high quality experience to his shows. Recently, I know that he spent around 5 hours perfecting a song that he wanted to bring into his repertoire. He also provides his own stream, and has laid out a backup in case of problems with his normal one - even though a lot of venues provide a stream. Honeybear - you are paying way too much for your stream - get in touch with me in-world, and I will point you in the right direction.

There is a very wide quality of performers in SL, and you takes your chances when you venture into events search - but there is real talent out there.

Yes fees can be quite high, but if someone is doing their job as a musician, then the time they put into the preparation shines through, and their fee is justified.

A custom builder charges by the hour for their talent, why shouldn't a musician who has learnt their trade in the same way?

As for Management types who spam - yes I hate that .. a good manager is like a good host, dealing with the issues, making all (including the performer) feel comfortable. It's not about begging for tips and spamming. Personally I despise that behaviour.

The performer I work with always asks the crowd to tip the venue, however, and will donate part of a good night's tips back to the venue.

He also will not do ticketed or otherwise paid for beforehand events, as he believes that music should be free for those who want to enjoy it.

I forgot Nancy...she does put on a very very good show. I used to go see her and Juel every Wednesday night in Transylvania. Fun stuff.

Exactly. If the performer doesn't trip my trigger, I'll still tip at least 100L, probably 200L. If they're good, I'll tip anywhere from 300-1000L, and hit the club for anywhere from half to the same, depending on the atmosphere, etc.

I didn't, until this thread. I really didn't know how the live music scene worked, but like Melissa I assumed the musicians' tips were the extent of what they made and the venue's costs were limited to the usual overhead - which is hard enough to cover, from what I understand.

Knowing that the musicians are paid, and that the venue bears that extra expense, I would tend to allocate my tips differently if I go to live music events in the future.

Also, based on Cristalle's comment, I wouldn't bat an eye if the fee were under L$100 to attend an event I knew I was interested in, especially as a "suggested donation" rather than an absolute requirement like buying a pass. I usually have that much cash to spend in-world and I do like to feel I'm supporting people who offer their resources so I can have fun. (And I'm thinking now of the uproar in the forums when TUi started allowing instructors to charge more than L$10 for classes...)

When you opened the thread, I was picturing fees in line with RL prices - I seem to vaguely recall seeing a concert with a fee of L$5000 when I was a newbie, and though it's not that much in RL dollars, there was just no way. Even a couple hundred L$ is a substantial portion of my in-world budget and as flaky as my RL sometimes gets there's no guarantee I'd be able to stay to enjoy the event I'd paid for.

I'm glad this has come up - I'm learning a lot about an aspect of SL I really hadn't explored before.

As a live performer in SL, I really don't have a strong opinion about ticketed events. It seems that there are cases where they'd work, and others where they wouldn't. The thing I do feel strongly about is making sure that the venues who support me are in turn well supported. I help them in any way I can, and if a ticketed event is better for them, I'd be down with it.

One way or another, I always make it a point at all my shows to remind folks that tipping the venue is the only way the venue can continue to bring live musicians and good DJs for their entertainment. If I feel like I'm being a drain on the venues resources, I wouldn't want to continue playing there.

And yes, I've played for HoneyBear a couple of times at Summertime Blues Club, and she's an awesome and generous person and great host.

First off, I would like to apologize for my "shut up" remark. I meant it tongue in cheek, but it did not come out that way, and the last thing I want to do is tell anyone they can't voice their opinions. I certainly voice mine now and then. My comment about Justin, Brittney, etc was made that way too, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention. I ripped off the post quickly and should have reread it.

I am very passionate about music. The thing that got me fired up was some blanket comments about musicians in SL, which I have heard before. I've heard some performances that were not so good, and left rather quickly myself. My point was that it is not an easy thing to do what these people are doing. And I respect what they are attempting, many times quite successfully.

Well....I had more to say, but we're having a Tornado Warning here and the sirens are going off. I best make sure my family is safe.....wish us well.

Nic: not ALL musicians are paid. Some play for tips only, and some don't even bother with the tips either. It's hard to make a blanket statement that applies to the whole SL music scene in that way.

I personally play some regular shows that are paid, some at new/small locations for free, and yet others where I donate all my time and tips to charities, like Relay for Life. You really don't know what each situation is, which is why I recommend tipping both artist and venue regardless. But do take care of the venues... they are the ones with the largest expenses.

This is pretty classy. Not so easy to do, so it's extra nice to see it. (I've learnt the hard way myself that forums are best considered as "irony-free zones" among other things. I don't think I was ever this gracious about it.)

I'm embarrassed to admit that before this thread I'd always assumed that clubs and performers had arrangements quite different from simply paying for the performance. I knew musicians could be hired, but somehow I thought that didn't apply to clubs. (To what, then? In-world bar mitzvahs? No idea. ) When performers encouraged the audience to support the venue, somehow it never connected with me that the venue's many expenses included the performer's own fee.

For the background on metaAdverse, thanks Yumi and Travis. Really, there should be a way to make something like this work, even if only as some kind of ad network cooperative. Not sure it would make a huge dent in venue expenses, but it should command some revenue, just on the merits of the audience being better potential customers than are the average passersby.

And you are one of my favorites Zak - we've talked about this situation before, actually, and I liked your viewpoint. Your rate is lower than anyone else's and your fan base is the most generous...but your music is top rate

I should just book you every Saturday night

If I want to see something (doesn't even apply to live music specifically, but in general) I wouldn't have any problem with a cover charge; if anything it might even keep out some of the less desirable guests.

I will never tip whether I enjoy it or not though. If something costs money then be honest and upfront about it and ask for a cover charge. A donation tip jar somewhere is fine, but trying to encourage/ask for tips in any way is just going to feel deceptive and not unlike begging to me honestly.

I have paid fairly large sums to hear certain artists that I enjoy. In general, shows that are in typical venues don't charge an entry fee, and this is probably for the best, as the uncertain stability of SL makes it questionable from one week to the next whether the sim might crash or some other issue may crop up.

However, I've been to several events where artists that are among those I consider the cream of SL's crop were playing, and I have paid L$1000 or more a ticket for my wife and I to attend, and we've always come away feeling like it was well worth it.

These people are as good as anyone around! Just because you don't (yet) find their CDs at the local record store doesn't mean that they aren't excellent performers.

Come on, look at it this way -- if you pay L$1000 to hear someone, that's about $4. Where in the world can you hear artists that are as excellent as some of these people -- and I'm referring to people like Komuso Tokugawa, Cylindrian Rutabaga, Von Johin, NANCE Brody and others -- for that amount of money?

P2

With all the free stuff out there, charging a cover will be hard to pull off effectively. It could even lower your revenues. In RL, whenever a tip is added to the bill for me, I end up tipping less than I would have. I don't like people telling me how much I liked the service. In SL, paying for a live performance upfront would feel the same way. It's true that there are some artists out there that I would pay an upfront fee to see, but they are ones that I know I'd be tipping anyway, and I would tip less if I'd already been charged. In general, I would hate an entrance fee, mostly because there have been times when I would have gladly paid an exit fee.

I was surprised when I asked a performer how much they charged for a performance. It was $5000, and they're definately worth it, but it was a lot more than I expected. That changed the way I tip performers. I tip the venues more now that I know that.

Maybe you could add a note to your tip jar showing what your monthly or weekly expenses are, and how much has been covered so far. If your fans knew how much you were paying out, they'd probably help out more.

I would not be inclined to pay a cover charge at any kind of venue in Second Life.

The reason is that I do not know whether I will be actually staying at an event to which I go. I may go, and after five minutes, decide I'd like to try another Event; or maybe a friend of mine might log on while I'm at the Event, and want to do something else; or maybe for RL reasons I have to log out.

On occasions when I have gone to live music events and stayed through them, I've usually tipped the artist.

I would expect that the business you lose by charging a cover charge would exceed the money you gained through the cover charge. The cover charge is not going to get money out of people who normally don't want to pay for anything in Second Life anyway. You'll lose the money from people who have the money to spend, but care conservative and careful about how they spend their money.

Little short on time at the moment, so here is my short reply (even though I think I have a lot to say on it!)

This issue has plagued so many music venues in SL it's staggering. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that 85%+ venues in SL run in the red simply because there is no simple way to recover cost. The owners of the "successful" clubs stay in business because they accept that much of the cost to run it will be coming out of their pocket, and their enjoyment is enough motivation to continue doing so. Congratulations to those who manage to somehow profit from their club without somehow tying rentals to it.

Charging guests to attend your shows? Hm yes, sounds fair, but then you have to consider that there are (as mentioned) many places to go catch a live gig for free or for their volunteered tips. If purchasing a e-ticket were somehow widely accepted then there is the question of how to handle such a thing. Restrict parcel access? Maintain and enforce a list through staff (bouncer)? Temporary group membership? There simply is no clear way, currently, to do this sort of thing, at least not as far as I have seen.

Then of course there are the heaps of other factors, such as: Who's Playing? How's the quality of the venue? What style of music? Is the performer "performing" or just playlisting? And on and on.

I think you are on a good path HoneyBear. One that a lot of venue owners would be interested in discussing actually. But as it seems you realize, it would take a banding together of both performers and management/owners PLUS a community surrounding it that would be willing to accept such a thing.

Good luck on this, I think it's an important issue for the music community in SL as a whole.

Edit:
Eek! Yes, I would pay to attend a performance that interests me enough.

So would I