Would you pay to attend a live performance?

Thanks for the insightful answer there

Thanks Qie, this is the type of answer I was looking for...thought out and insightful.

hi Derek, nice to see you here

Great answer. The tribute band shows are simply CDs set to a stage show. The type of performers I'm referring to are the ones that I have playing at my club from time to time - Von Johin, BubbaC John, Virtual Live Band.

I wasn't thinking of $1000 per ticket, more like $25 per ticket, simply to help defray the cost.

Sadly, the situation is this - the performers (somewhat rightly) believe that their time is worth so much money. They charge the venue, their fans come to the event, tip THEM heavily, but don't always tip the house - who is out of pocket for the event. I'm spending about $100USD every month providing entertainment for the masses...and trying to figure out a way to keep doing that, without busting my own budget.

It depends. If we are talking about a top performer who is doing an actual live performance, either simulcast into SL or (even better) performed soley for an SL audience, yes, I would pay to hear that if it were someone I liked. But, the price would have to be in respect to SL's economy, not RL's. I'd pay L$75 to see Blue Man Group perform ... in SL.

A local or unsigned artist ... not so much. Put out the tip jar, and if they're good they'll get paid.

The point isn't whether the talent gets paid - it's whether the venue is going to get paid. The performer gets paid by the venue...who usually gets a greatly reduced tip, if any, by the performer's fan base.

If the performer is getting a hefty fee for playing, and tips from fans into the bargain, shouldn't they be suggesting to their audience to tip the venue? Or is such talent so in demand that venues should be grateful for the star to deign to play there?

I'm not a fan of clubs and venues where every 20 seconds, there is a reminder to tip the DJ, host, dancer, gardener, resident drunk, bouncer, butcher, baker, candlestick maker etc etc, but if the artiste is doing a live performance, a quick word over the mic would be enough, I would have thought.

The economics of stage performance is backwards from real life; in real life, pubs pay bands (not very much) to draw crowds which will a) pay cover charges and b) buy liquor. Sometimes the band will get a pre-arranged portion of the bar and/or cover charge, but smart venue owners will arrange for themselves to be on the posititve side of the balance sheet or they aren't venue owners for long.

In SL, there is typically no cover and certainly no bar take. So the venue owner is saddled with tier, streaming fees, promotion expenses and possibly paying the band. I've heard some excellent performers in SL; I've also heard singers that were painfully tone deaf and musicians that stumble over complex riffs.

So should you charge a cover? Probably not, because there are too many venues that don't. I think running a venue falls into the same category as SL malls: do it because you like to and expect your expenses to be higher than profits. As in the case of SL malls, there are too many music venues vying for too little traffic.

As to what the musician's time is worth - in general, they tend to overvalue themselves. Unfortunately with venues going begging for talent, in some sense they are correct.

I don't see a practical solution to this so long as there are more venues than there are people who want to play them.

Most of them do. One performer was so embarrassed at his fans not tipping the venue, that he donated half his fee back. I can't make them tip the house, and neither can the performers. I guess they all feel that this is about entitlement...the performer is entitled to play for pay.

I accept that I pay 85,000L a month for my sim, 2,000L a month for my stream, and about 25,000L a month for my employees and contests, in addition to the 25,000L-ish that I pay for the talent. I'm seriously lucky if I get 10,000L in tips per month. I accept all this - I just wish there was a way to get the residents to see that amongst all the "free" content in SL....some things aren't just created, and that people actually have to pay out of their own pocket for someone else's good time.

It really is my thought that if the majority of the club owners would band together on this issue, the tide might turn.

I suppose another issue is why you have the performers to begin with.

If it's purely to provide entertainment to residents, then charging for this would seem reasonable.

However, if the band also serves as a draw to get people into nearby shops or other money-making activities, then the cost of the entertainment should be considered part of the cost of doing business, i.e. a marketing expense.

B.

Two reasons - one, I do believe in supporting the live performance movement, but the prices have gotten a bit extreme. Those "tribute bands" alone are 10k...or $38USD...for an hour's performance.

Of course the other reason I do this is to give added value to my club - the club which I run for the amusement of other residents, and to provide jobs for some.

Of course, I get enjoyment too out of having people at my club, and I enjoy the performers that I book. I knew going in that owning a club was a losing proposition because there's just no effective way of making money now that gambling is gone (unless you go to sex, and I'm not willing to go there). I knew and know all this...just trying to find a way to defray SOME of the cost, certainly not all.

that was very cool of you. glad it worked out so well for everybody.

LOL!

On the topic, I would not pay. Every spare penny is going for gas and groceries these days. But I would tip the artist.

Why would you not tip the venue Ray?

I'm in the early music group and have attended some wonderful live performances for which I would have gladly paid an entry fee as well as given a tip. These were performances by very skilled, highly trained professional musicians and singers. I would pay to attend if the performance was of something like early music--relatively rare, and difficult to find live in RL for those who don't live in large cities. If the performance was of a type of music readily available anywhere, I'm not sure that I'd pay to attend.

I would not pay, but I would tip the venue for sure (the artist too if I like ). I would tip the venue because it is giving me the chance of attending the event in the first place, so why not show appreciation for that?

Never been to a live performance in SL. if someone told me that was the custom, I would do that too.

Thsi group might eat the breadcrumbs

I usually tip the performer 100L$ if I like them. I had no idea they were already charging so much. I don't buy from stores while at live music events. SL is risky enough without adding max sim population lag to the mix. So the performers are getting paid twice for a single show; once from the venue and once from the audience.

That really changes things in my mind.

I heard a woman not long ago, beautiful voice. Sultry and smooth. Just to make up a name... call her Teressa. In the crowd was another lady with the group tag "Teressa's Manager". Teressa's Manager was one of the worst woot spamers around. When she was not begging for tips she was spaming the howls, woots, ascii art spam dozens of lines long and what I found really crass, an "Applaude" sign after every song. Not applause, not so-and-so applaudes; she was telling everyone it was time to applaude. Once was never enough for this sign, it went up 4 or 5 times after every song. I stayed for I think 3 songs before I left. Pity. The singer had probably the best female voice I have heard in SL and better than many so called stars.

Malachi's analysis is spot on, unfortunately. Charging a cover will put you in a catch-22 situation (which you're in already), and will likely make things worse with decreased attendance.

One suggestion: Perhaps utilize paid advertising to defray your costs. Since Live Music does tend to attract large crowds, perhaps place sign areas around the stage area that will collect the eyeballs of the crowd, and charge money to those who wish to advertise there. Maybe even set standards ahead of time - so those advertising don't conflict with the atmosphere you're attempting to provide at your club.

Its seems ironic to me that while obscene adfarms are over-used as advertising in Second Life, strategically-placed tasteful advertising within venues & gathering areas seems underutilized. Since charging cover is unrealistic within our in-world culture, what better way to recoup your costs than to turn all those eyeballs you're attracting into advertising revenue.

/me continues to mourn the demise of MetaAdverse

I know how you feel, Honey, as I have paid out 5k to one performer and only got 100L back, while he racked up 3k.

There are very few that are really worth the price, IMO. My outlook on it is changing, and I'm beginning to be less willing to put that money forward. I am very much willing to put forth 10k for a rl professional, but it seems that every wannabe star is charging 5k to sing to Karaoke tracks.

I wouldn't hire any tribute band when all they are doing is putting a CD to music. They can "play" for tips.

Would have been muted by the second woot. Why would you leave if you can make her go away?

B.

There are limits, though, on how much you can charge for advertising without making the club look tawdry. At a prominent venue like the Hummingbird Club, I wouldn't pay more than a couple hundred L for a spot where there is no guarantee that anyone will look! And that won't come close to paying the bill for all the acts.

I'm found about 5 nights a week at live music performances on the grid. And with very few exceptions, I wouldn't pay a linden as an entrance fee for a show. I tip based on what I get out of the entertainment, not for the right to show up to it. There are several popular SL musicians whose music I can't sit through. They don't get tipped by virtue of their being there if they give more discomfort than entertainment. And the venue that invited them doesn't, either. I'm paying for the entertainment value, I guess you would say.

If you're concerned about it, look into tip-splitting with the performers. Plenty of tip jars are out there to do it. I know that a lot of them (probably not all) agree to it, though I'm unsure how that changes their terms.

Don't get me wrong. I know that venue owners struggle with this. But the last time I saw a pay-for-admission discussion as a proposal to keep the venues afloat, it wasn't pretty. I can't imagine that the general opinion has shifted all that much in the months since.



Not all performers charge as much as others. And there are some pefromers who regularly play for tips-only. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. And before you get too upset about what they are paid.... how much does a single guitar string cost? A quick Google tells me lower end strings run L$1250 each. I've heard more than one break during an hour's show at times. Musicians have stream costs (lots of locations don't have their own stream). Bringing you the music isn't free for the musicians, either. I realize that Melissa will Never Tip Again knowing that something besides her tips is paying them, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of musicians in SL are overpaid.

Its definately something that requires a lot of thought & planning. But think about it this way:

People pay thousands of L$ for classified ads, that also offer little guarantee that people will even look at the ad. If I knew a prominent act was going to be playing at a club, such as Frogg Marlowe - I'd think having my ad displayed... or even maybe having Frogg himself mention my product/venue/service between sets - would be more valueable & worthwhile than any classified ad could be.

The problem is, there's no clearinghouse today to match up people who want to advertise with people who can host advertisements. Venue operators are on their own to go find sponsors for their events. (This is what MetaAdverse used to provide back in 2004-05).

At the Shelter, we try to find 'Sponsors' for all of our events to help defray costs... over the years, its something that's worked out really well.

This is very interesting to me, but was "before my time." What happened to that? Aside from the unfortunate name (I have quite enough adversity, without a "meta" version), it seems a winning concept. Well, at least a heck of a lot more promising than the mess that is display advertising now.That's very interesting, too. My people should call your people.