So why are kids on Zindra?

Agreed. Absolutely. The problem in this instance being that the appearance of a giant penis, however ridiculous, turned this particular event into something likely to be viewed as a "sexually oriented situation." Except, it would appear, in San Francisco . . .

Or Sydney, or elsewhere in the civilized world.

Yes, maybe. But, again, perception is everything. The rest of RL has already been told, repeatedly, that SL is "about" sex. That this IS nonsense has no bearing on that perception. (Yes, I know that for some of us, SL really IS "about" sex . . . ) We all know that stuff like this happens in SL all the time, and is really pretty meaningless. The rest of the world doesn't. I think this could easily be susceptible to spin.

And, again, the real issue here is that the problem was created, inadvertently, by the presence of child avatars. Were I a Linden who had been present when the giant penis appeared in the vicinity of kiddie avatars, I'd be rather nervous, on a personal level, as I watched how this story spread.

What's perhaps notable is that no one who was present said anything about the giant comedy penis and my avatar being within 10m of each other. Blondin did make a comment of "There's the first penis on Zindra" or some such -- but where was the shouting then about my avatar being near that avatar?

It only came hours later, thanks to a posting on a particular blog.

Discussion of policy in regards to kid avatars happened earlier than this incident, BTW, and while many other Lindens beyond Blondin -- including at one point M -- were present.

That's a perfect example..People not being able to look past the paint job that adult content is the extreme limit and not the minimum of Zindra..
We've pretty much had a zindra the whole time..Not all mature has been used for the so called horny peoples..

I suspect no one shouted because all present DID recognize that this was, in reality, completely harmless. But I think that people are going to have to become MUCH more aware of how this sort of thing can be perceived in the future. It's a kind of "chill" effect, and a failure to take it into account is going to lead to casualties, I fear.

Quite likely. I, for one, would not be all that surprised to see a policy change on child avatars on Zindra post-preview. TBH, though, I think people seeing the photos of the event helps people see what did happen a lot better than no images and pure speculation.

I never did get my bear.

It seems fairly obvious that some individuals have an anti-child avatar agenda and are blowing this incident out of proportion to push it.

Yeah, a dozen Lindens, including the CEO of the company are encouraging a child avatar sex orgy at the opening of Pornsylvania.

I don't see that being the case at all.

well if they dig too far they may end up hurting their cause by letting the true story out lol

Why .... does that not surprise me?

This issue is not specifically about you.

Some of you have chosen to take this issue as very personal but in reality the simple limitations that many expect to be in place within SL regarding the depictions of children have little to do with any one individual.

Remain in context and respond in context please.

My response was in relation to THIS post:


In no way have I taken this personally ... Indeed all of my responses have been from the point of view of someone who supports free expression (within reason).

Thus far, YOU have done your very best to try and find anything at all that supports your own issues and arguments (only within your own mind by the by) while batting away any form of logic as if none of it means a bloody thing!

Nor do they have anything to do with toon kids on Zindra.

NO, but *some* of it is. I agree that there is a much bigger issue at play here, but when a large part of the discussion is "Marianne dancing with a penis," then that does involve me.

Sounds like a bad intro to a kids sex ed book.

The only problem I see is that LL has very publicly stated that Zindra is an adult continent for adult activities. They mention that everyone there is age verified. This has gotten them good press. I'm just worried that LL will open themselves to the accusation that 'LL allows child AVs on land set aside for adult activities.' They will most certainly run into that accusation regardless of anything happening. What's the difference between Zindra and the mainland pre-Zindra? LL is tooting their horn very loudly about how they have set aside the adult areas. They set aside activities that most people don't want to see. That's what.

You can say a child av can go anywhere as long as they dont have sex but the issue is that having a child av on land set aside for adult activities taints LLs credibility.

Child av + sex continent =

The problem is not the simple limitations. The problem is the small group of people who do not care what the present limitations are. ie; the Marianne incident, a Linden was there and it was not a violation of the TOS. This same small group is TRYING TO DEFINE what the limitations SHOULD be. Some individuals would like nothing better then to have no child Avs anywhere in SL.

It does begin to feel personal. Try to put yourself in the place of someone who chooses to play a kid avatar. Choose some point about your avatar that you feel defines your SL character. It could be anything; animal features, hair color, body shape. Whatever point about your avatar you really feel conveys something about how you want to portray yourself. Not only how you want to portray yourself to others, but it actually helps you to enjoy your SL by connecting you with a community of like minded individuals: maybe you want to be elven, furry, or a perfect normal human 10. Then imagine many of the population of SL assigning motives that you never meant and indeed might be the total opposite of what you meant to that particular characturistic. Then imagine that they not only pushed these motives on you in world, but took thier agenda to the forums, to LL, even onto your own parcel in SL. They tried to limit what you could do (not just on thier parcel but in all of SL). Sure it is SL you could change your features (and many do), but you shouldn't have to.

Kid Avatars make a good target for this targeting type of behaviour because the idea of kids portrayed sexually is too uncomfortably close to the RL tragedy of exploited children. LL took a stand on this and as a community and responsible players we have to be informed and abide by it. What we don't have to do is give into those who would make the situation more and more restrictive.

There are many other uncomfortable concepts you can find in SL too. So it shouldn't be too hard to imagine you might be in the position of having your motives constantly judged. I would just ask that people deal with problems in the policy as they happen and not make problems where there is not.

To quote Gene Wolfe, in _The Shadow of the Torturer_: "I do not know how such a thing can be tainted".

The whole way this process has been handled, from the start, has done nothing for Linden Labs credibility.

A follow-up title to "Everyone Poops?"

I'm not sure about any "panic" as you say, I haven't read each and every post in this thread. I DO know for a fact that people in Zindra were still talking about you and your presence there almost 2 days later. I'm not lost on the sarcasm there, and yes in that instance nothing was going on. However, anyone would be a fool to think everyone with a child AV would or even could carry themselves like many of our longtime child residents have.
The issue I brought up is a legitimate concern because I've been a victim of it unwittingly. While on a nude beach (where sex does occur), minding my own business and cammed away from my own AV, a naked child AV and an adult av settled into the chair next to me and cuddled. Without even knowing why, I was chastized in IM by a responding Linden, and had to almost literally "fight for my life" because the screenshot for the AR that happened apparently was at an angle that had my naked AV in the background. Those involved were banned, even one of the banana-wearing noobs who was standing too close and obviously didn't know any better. The same thing would've happened if I had been having sex there with an adult and a child AV merely sat down by us. The responsibility for everyone ELSE (who wasn't actively participating with said child AV) getting in trouble lies squarely on that child AV's presence. They shouldn't have been there, but they were ALLOWED to be so that was incentive to push the limit and put others at risk as well. Deny it or not, call it panic if you like, but the concern about unintentional depictions as viewed from a 3rd parties eyes is a very real one.

I was there again yesterday and I didn't hear nuffin about it. So some people might have mentioned it but it was hardly a big deal.

The only thing making it a big deal is P- N- and her schadenfreude.