BDSM creators doomed eventually?

I said this in another thread that I happened to see before this one. Really - the threads are the same... just worded a bit differently...

So I'll repeat it all here:

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Did Mozilla hurt Microsoft Internet Explorer?
Did GIMP hurt Photoshop?
Did DAZ Studio hurt Poser?

and... the king...

Did Second Life hurt the sales of the tons of other MMOPGs that charge money for the software and a forced monthly fee?

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Sure, all those things had an effect on sales, but it most certainly didn't "hurt" any of the paid versions - assuming the paid versions were worth the money in the first place. In computers, there have ALWAYS been free or very cheap shareware alternatives to the "big boys". The same will always be true of any specific application or game in an open market.

As far as the Open Collar thing - I have seen only one or two collar makers in SL that didn't start working from that base freebie collar system that has been floating around for years. That's why most all collars are pretty much the same. There are a few excellent systems out there that are above and beyond this original system - a few started fresh, a few have had several years to evolve and expand upon the freebie code that is out there.

If you make a product that can't compete with the equivalent freebie out there - that says more about your product than the freebie one, doesn't it?

I have a cycle on my washing machine called 'normal'.




Didn't we just recently have this conversation?

Deviant, by definition, means "a person who's behavior deviates from what is acceptable". I think pretty much all of the various sexual activities are mostly considered 'acceptable' in SL - therefore, those that might be "deviant" in RL are not "deviant" in SL.

Just because it happens in rl doesn't mean it's not deviant by its nature. I think we should substitute in the word customary for acceptable, although unacceptable is a valid definition. Lifestyle BDSM is "deviant" - without the moral judgment of it. It is overrepresented in SL, and is part of the reason for SL having its reputation as some seedy gig.

Actually, it isn't. It's prevalence is greater than that of RL, but in SL, and in terms of SL, it's exactly represented.

The very act of labeling BDSM, or gays or lesbians, or any other facet of human sexuality "deviant", or even worse "seedy", implies a moral judgement. The moral judgement says, "THIS is acceptable. THAT is not."

Human sexuality takes many forms, is expressed in many ways. I say none of them are "deviant". Some are less common than others, but they are all part of the human condition.

Or, as Spider Robinson once put it, "One man's meat is another man's person".

I can use the word "deviant" without assigning a moral judgment to it. It just means "unusual." The word seedy is just descriptive of Second Life's reputation in the media. Whatever your view of the actual activity, it is what it is and this is causing the kind of activity we are seeing now from Linden Lab.

The "A legal, full perm noob?" thread mentions
http://npirl.blogspot.com/2009/05/free-noobs-for-all-art-laxness-releases.html

..which includes:

Art continued: "Let’s take this to a different extreme: How many people will die needlessly because of patents on medical drugs keeping the prices of those drugs high? The answer is an awful lot. The counter argument is that if the drugs companies can't make money out of what they do, then they won’t do it, but that sounds to me like a problem with society rather than an argument (in favor of) an obsolete business model. It strikes me that if everyone could build on each other’s advancements, rather than hoarding things to themselves, then humanity would get further faster. Artists and companies need to be rewarded for their output so they can keep producing, but a new business model is needed, as the current one is f**ed and is holding the world back. I'll throw the Clockwork Quartet out there as an example (his steampunk band). We're giving away all of our music for free. We intend to make our money off merchandise and gigs.”



Some may find the surrounding page text general tone v. classic business culture a bit extreme, but there should be a feeling of attraction to "It strikes me that if everyone could build on each other’s advancements, rather than hoarding things to themselves, then humanity would get further faster."

Well, OK. The high thought might not sit easily with "collars", but there is a point there that I get. The business model is missing.

Having talked with some that use MLP still over the others, I think I see the main reason it was so destructive to the rest: Ease of use.

The five I talked to considered the system price a point, but would have adjusted the final cost of their products like they did for the price of full perm animations.

The general ruling was they saw MLP as far easier to use and support, so it was a better product for their needs. One offers beds using other systems, provided the user buys the kit to be put in the bed (and most stick with MLP unless they want more than two in the bed)

I think that is the key when it comes to the pose menus and the like, ease of use. When it's a big clunky pita people will not use it, when it works and is easily used they will use it. so if a freebie is hard to use (or real poor quality) none would be worried, when the freebie is just the opposite... then the content creators are going to have to work to make their product better than the freebie or they rightly will lose sales.

Consider it Economic Darwinism... you either evolve your products to be apex grade, or get trampled under the new king of the hill regardless of the price points. If the open collar wasn't as good or better than many of the for pay systems... then there wouldn't be a problem. But since they are stagnant or behind the curve, they will get pushed aside by the better stuff out there (and the thing about open collar is it has a huge number of folks willing to work on it, so it will always be innovating... unlike those that haven't changed their scripts in a year or more)

As I stated in the Adult Content Changes thread, Opencollar hasn't even put a scratch into my sales. Any fear that they will take over the market is unfounded. They cater to a different subset of SL users, and that's all I'll say since I'm not exactly impartial.

My collars will not be affected by the scripting limits, they have always been the lowest lag, lowest memory consuming collars out there. Because that's how I roll.

I thought it was the Swine Flu?

and sadly, 99% of them suck. go figure.

To the argument that MLP hurt Deviant or NeoLove, or SexGen, I have to laugh. their beds still sell for 5000L or more (some as high as 10,000L). So doesn't seem they were hurt at all. If they were, they would be lowering their prices. They are rolling in dough, and sales.

Awesome signature material. THANKS!

But Darien.

It seems that all the bed makers have done a bit of price fixing though. The general price for even decent MLP beds is $5k So when MLP cost 5k and SexGen cost 5k, then what becomes the separator are the animation sets. Yea they are all rolling in dough though.

I paid 4000L for a bed its not the free script type. I paid that amount because i loved the animations, they were not jerky or to fast but have a smooth flow between one moment to the other. I do not feel ripped off I feel i got value for money

BDSM? mhmm what it is?)) lol

i think people are getting too fixated on mlp cos its open source. imo mlp is the poor mans xpose. xpose is a huge improvement on its predecessor.
personally, i think theyre all asleep at the wheel. rlv is making huge inroads, and bed-maker types overlooking the uses of rlv scripting in their products is an utter fool.

I speak here as one of the OpenCollar scripters.
Darien is not the first to say OC isn't harming the collar market.
A theory I heard from another collar maker even stated the opposite, stressing the fact that OpenCollar helps a lot of residents discover the BDSM lifestyle, thus enlarging the potential market. I don't know how much this is founded... we lack statistics.
One thing is sure:I haven't seen one collar maker complain (people not selling collars sometimes do, however ^^).
And if you think carefully, there is lots of reasons for this:
For instance, OpenCollar has always had a tradition to focus on features and quality, but seriously lack animations you could find in other collars. Every collar brand is different, with different menus you might prefer to another one, with different animation sets, different designs...
That's why I don't believe there is a lethal threat to the "classic" collar market (but maybe a big incentive for making better and differenciated products, which in the end benefits the user community).

Now OpenCollar really is a chance for designers with poor scripting skills, and allows them to sell beautiful and full-featured collars for quite low prices (around L$300, it seems). And well, having as much money to spend, you would of course buy several collars as you buy several outfits (having the settings stored on a web server is really convenient!).
It is also a chance for people developping alternate devices, using OC as a script base, enhancing various in-world RPG.
OpenCollar does undeniably help, if not always making money, extending and improving in-world content.


PS: side remark to Darien, if you are still around despite having closed Dari's Haus:
Please have a look at those script timings benchmarks on Nandana's blog:
http://encircled.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/collar-script-time-showdown/
Not to start a flamewar, but it seems OpenCollar's compare favorably to yours .
As for memory usage... well we lack tools for comparing. That would be interesting to know (silly Lindens, limiting memory without providing the tools to assess memory usage!).

PS, to other people reading: in case you missed the announcement, a lot of Darien's stuff is now in the public domain.
That would make yet another free and high-quality competitor. But I still don't think it would in any way endanger the market.

I do wish ppl would not confuse gorean RP, BDSM and D/s they are different

I dont see how a collar can make one discover a lifestyle you dont need a collar it is really a symbol of what you are much like a wedding ring is a symbol. So i feel those who intend to take a deeper interest in it will buy a collar for their submissive ( the owner is the one to give the collar not the sub buying their own)

I'd hate to get this hung up on specifics, but while the three are not the same, there is a large degree of overlap and commonality between them.

BDSM as an acronym includes Bondage & Discipline (BD), Dominance & Submission (DS or D/s if you prefer) and Sadism & Masochism (SM). While Gorean covers all aspects of John Norman's fantasy worlds, including the caste system, heroic fantasy & mythical beasts, for many the slavery aspects are the most visible. In SL especially, Gorean slavery and BDSM are strongly linked, with Gorean slave positions used in many 'mainstream' collar animations.

Some people do it differently.

For example, a collar can be for play, not for a deep D/s relationship. Or it could be for both. Some people don't even need or want a collar to represent their commitment to each other.

There's more than one way to do it.

No they aren't.

Gorean lifestyle has always been different than a BDSM lifestyle. Totally different focus.

If they are linked in any way it is through associative ignorance...

Thats due to the lack of creative BDSM & D/s animators who cannot think of their own submissive sitting/kneeling positions.

nadu, et al. were created for Goreans, i remember the day they were uploaded into SL since I had the only animation warehouse on the grid at the time, which is where they were distributed from. Other aspects of the D/s community took those animations/poses and have used them for themselves - because they are awesome.

It has nothing to do with Gorean D/s and BDSM D/s being associated.