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BDSM creators doomed eventually?

Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
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04-30-2009 15:31
From: Five Denver
Go to the mall.

I know, it's not exactly wonderful at the mall. But you wont see a BDSM rack in every other window. Oh, and a man screwing another man in a poodle costume.


And you don't see that in SL everywhere either. You are overgeneralizing. You are buying into the hype that is put out by the press.

And RLv2, is that what you really want SL to be. What's the point then?
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Amaranthim Talon
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04-30-2009 15:31
From: Five Denver
<snip>

This is how happy I am -----> :)

In that case, rock on dude - /me exits, stage right :D
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Ian Nider
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04-30-2009 15:33
From: Five Denver
Oh yes, it's common around SL. and that's my point.

I would like to see it be represented fairly. I don't want SL to become BDSM world. Or frog sex world. Or any <insert kink> world.

I sympathize with Linden Lab wanting Second Life to be "normal".


I have kind of not like how the internet has popularized it in life, it's become watered it down and it's all full of PC and dogma now.

As for LL looking normal, anything on the net looks normal if it's about bdsm.

PS, whip me, lol, that's fucked up, no way.
Five Denver
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Join date: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 101
04-30-2009 15:42
It's easy to end up arguing over little side points in these types of discussions.

Focus!:

I believe Linden Lab understandably wants SL to reflect RL in its varied tastes. They don't care what those tastes are.

and I agree with Linden Lab.


Over and out..
Whimsycallie Pegler
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Join date: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,003
04-30-2009 15:58
Back to the original subject.

I believe the free collar might just help boost sales. Many I know who have not been into "gadgetry" have decided if it is free they would try it. Once they decide they like some of the benefits they often go out searching for whether there is a a better product.
Damien1 Thorne
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Join date: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,877
04-30-2009 16:34
From: Five Denver
Go to the mall.

I know, it's not exactly wonderful at the mall. But you wont see a BDSM rack in every other window.

Having you been lurking around my castle again?
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Rene Erlanger
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Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
04-30-2009 17:42
From: Harmony Levee
Today me and a good friend of mine we're discussing the BDSM market in SL. Both of us being creators of BDSM gear etc etc. The topic that we both sort of got stuck on was a certain company that basically, took over the collar trade. I won't mention this company but any SL BDSM lifestyler would know which company it is.

Here's me and my friends shared thoughts, and also my own.

First, i'm not here to badmouth this company because I need to say for a free collar it's a wonderful one. tons of options, all the bells and whistles, automatic updates and constantly improving it. To be quite honest...for a free collar it rivals, and outdoes most of the collars you see for sale in SL. Even my pets use them and I rather enjoy them because of the ease to use, the features and the constant updates.

Now...being a "free" collar, I believe this is going to impact some of the big players as far as collars and BDSM gear goes. To the point of taking over eventually, which I don't see far away. I myself stay away from collars as far as what I create but as I said, with the advances this company makes I see many commonly used things in the BDSM lifestyle being incorporated into them as we speak, and in the future I'm sure. So in my opinion it is going to affect the trade of the BDSM lifestyle pretty harshly eventually. And no, you can't compete with free things in SL. Especially things that are quality made such as their products.

I fear that eventually most of the big companies and well known companies are gonna go under unless they either cheapen up significantly, or don't mind investing money into a business as opposed to making money. Could higher forces such as the Lindens be a part of this? I'm not dissing them but yes, they have done some shady things in the past and are in the workings of some now.

As far as my business goes, I make it by with a few hundred, maybe a few thousand extra a month which for me, is good. Enough to buy a few toys and new outfits. But as a established and longtime company, or a company wanting to make it. What do you do?

Again this probably isn't to important to non BDSM people but if you are a BDSM company owner, you need to make decisions...we all need to make decisions I think because I see a take over coming.

Comments are welcome ofcourse from everyone :)


I have long said that Content Creators are largely responsible for eventually killing their own economy. It's not just that the grid is swamped with freebies though giveaways plus the continious number of Treasure Hunts (every other week!) .....it's the quality of these Freebies some of which are extremely good.

If i were a Noob now, i doubt i would spend any Lindens in world at all.....no need to, I can pretty much get everything for free nowadays (except Land) and the quality doesn't warrant me in spending extra money on items that might only be marginally better.

Something has to give!
Lexxi Gynoid
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Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,732
04-30-2009 18:18
From: Five Denver
...says Mistress Love's pet.

and I'm sure David Icke saw reptillian humanoids all over the place.

Sure, and I'm happy to have been Mistress Love's pet for the last year and 5 months. But I was in SL for 5 or 6 months before I meet Mistress. And that has nothing to do with having seen BDSM all over the place before I ever came to SL.

Never heard of David Icke.
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Lexxi Gynoid
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04-30-2009 18:24
From: Five Denver
Well I don't believe it is common. But I can see why BDSM fans wished it were common. Nobody wants to be seen as a pervert/deviant.

Let me quote for you post 18 in this thread.
From: Lexxi Gynoid
I've always been sexually deviant.
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Windsweptgold Wopat
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Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
04-30-2009 19:03
From: Five Denver
Before I discovered SL the term BDSM barely existed and yet in SL it's as common as RL golf. I don't think that's a good thing for Second Life.

SL shouldn't have to be a hangout for sexually related cliches.

Linden Lab is going to put a gimp mask on BDSM and lock it in a box. They'll then push the box into a nice SL 2.0 shadow.

I have known of BDSM and many associated terms for along time, long before SL even existed. Maybe it is common in SL because in SL ppl can explore it whereas in RL like what SL wants to do it has to be hidden.

About the collar we dont use the free collar we believe you get what you pay for in the long run.
Windsweptgold Wopat
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Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
04-30-2009 19:21
From: Five Denver
Go to the mall.

I know, it's not exactly wonderful at the mall. But you wont see a BDSM rack in every other window. Oh, and a man screwing another man in a poodle costume.

At RL munches I have been to over the yrs Five I have NEVER seen a man screwing a poodle or a BDSM rack in the window. But as others have said its not as uncommon as you think. How many " vanilla's" have spanked their partner lightly or blindfolded someone, what about silk scarfs or ties used to tie your partners/lovers hands, or maybe you or your partner have dressed up or RP some scene in RL.
Careful these are all things that come under the BDSM umbrella but would you class these ppl as wirdos?
Tabliopa Underwood
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Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 719
04-30-2009 20:03
From: Briana Dawson
This is how i view it.

LL will be able to claim, unlike the other grids, that they have an Adult Content Grid, where the adult content is controlled and one does not have to worry about running into obscene scenes when showing SL around to their Boss, or Professor or Parents or Children.

This is not the end to anything. This is just the beginning of a new way XXX and extreme violence content is treated on the grid.
This. Kinda like free at last and all that. And is going to a very big place and very popular. And lots people to are going to goto the Adult part of the Grid and stay there not for the sex and violence but for the reasons they came to SL in the first place. To be with other adults and not have to always be looking over their shoulders for Bosses and Nannys and Parents and Children like you say.

Ursula is going to be the SecondLife (as we knew it before) of the wider LL-Grid.

I think also is great that there is going to be a wider Grid. I think is great that there will be Education and Family continents one day on the Grid for schools and children and there will also be RL Business continents as well where I can go and do my banking and buy RL stuff as well.

This all has to start somewhere and LL have decided to start with SecondLife, and while is lots problems, expensive ones even, for lots of people in making the transition from SecondLife to the LL-Grid, in the long run we all going to be a whole lot better off.

Like you say as well. This is all terribly exciting and is going to be fabulous =)
SuezanneC Baskerville
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04-30-2009 23:36
Could there be a third party client that coded and decoded search terms automatically? Sellers put " msdb" in their product descriptions, the third party viewer reads the search term "bdsm", reverses it before sending it to the servers, the result gets sent back and decoded before being displayed. Something somewhat like that?
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Cristalle Karami
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Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
05-01-2009 00:26
Ease up, folks - Five isn't advocating censorship. It is fair to make the observation that BDSM appears ... APPEARS ... to be overrepresented in SL. I've heard of it, and I believe most "normal" people get off on a little light bondage, but the lifestyle stuff that involves ball gags and anything more creative than a riding crop... not "normal" in first life.

Sadly, this apparent overrepresentation leads people to believe that SL is some den of iniquity. Well, it is, but outside the confines of what is "normal," which is why it's only businesses are being relegated to Ursula/Pornadelphia, and the private dungeons and such are supposedly untouched.
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Windsweptgold Wopat
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05-01-2009 03:18
The word search to me is silly after all we are ( as far as it should be for now anyway) all adults. If i type in pussy and i am really looking for a fur like thing to curl up on my lap that has 4 legs then i can go down the list and look at the description. Now if i am one of those ppl who cant handle the female part of the body in pixel form i could not TP to those places hey that sounds simple maybe ill suggest it to LL.

Dear Mr/Ms Linden
Can the search be made in such a way that I can tell what it is from the description. Then using my own brain cells i could work out if it was something i wanted to look at.

In other words FFS stop treating us like children
Windsweptgold Wopat
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05-01-2009 03:23
From: Cristalle Karami
Ease up, folks - Five isn't advocating censorship. It is fair to make the observation that BDSM appears ... APPEARS ... to be overrepresented in SL. I've heard of it, and I believe most "normal" people get off on a little light bondage, but the lifestyle stuff that involves ball gags and anything more creative than a riding crop... not "normal" in first life.

Sadly, this apparent overrepresentation leads people to believe that SL is some den of iniquity. Well, it is, but outside the confines of what is "normal," which is why it's only businesses are being relegated to Ursula/Pornadelphia, and the private dungeons and such are supposedly untouched.

Most in RL D/s dont have dungeons in their basements.
But what is this"normal"? No to long ago it would not of been "normal" for women to be working out side of the house. In SL like in RL if you dont want to go somewhere dont search for it or dont click on TP. If you for some reason go somewhere you did not mean to Leave.
Why should people be forced to move their business because of a few ? Think of it like this say in RL government decide your neighbourhood would make a great location for the cities working girls. SO you have to move out in 2 weeks take everything if you dont you will lose it but we will give you land it may not be likeyou have now but deal with it now MOVE IT
Jackie Silverfall
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Join date: 28 Mar 2009
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05-01-2009 04:08
From: Love Hastings
Despite all of that, OpenCollar will definitely impact sales for everyone else. Free is hard to beat for most people, even if it's only "good enough."
"For most people" is the key phrase. Personally, I paid quite a bit for my "necklace" because it is special and rather attractive (well, I think so anyway). Even though I'm only marginally involved in D/s here, that one item is too precious to me to try to save L$'s. By the way, I too prefer the traditional configuration for the scripts and the AO. Jackie
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Shard Jinx
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05-01-2009 04:47
as to the free collars.

I like them, they are nice and done well. With more versions coming out from designers with little to no scripting experience.

They are like free samples, they send a good collar to the freebie section. But offer so many more that they have done with the same scripting.

I've seen and used a couple others, and found them lacking at times. Especially in the permissions area, where it's all no copy/transfer with no option for copy/mod/no transfer which helps a lot when you want to tweak them to work with your avatar with modest skills.

I know it's special for the owner to give the pet a collar, but when they are afraid to alter the thing to fit or sit right because they can't back it up... not for me.

The nice thing is the scripts are updated a lot more often than the other collars I have... collecting dust in my inventory.

Open collar is no more of an impact in the grand scheme than the free MLP beds were.

The collars are still going to have to be made but it allows for a freebie, and the nice thing is anyone can make a collar using the scripts. And when you switch collars, it has a server based memory of your settings... so no more having to program every collar individually with preferences.

The menu isn't as bad as some out there. I have one that every time you try to pull up the menu you get script error msgs due to the word lengths. The fact is I use mostly the chat commands, far easier than trying to click a collar and go through the menu.
Briana Dawson
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05-01-2009 04:52
From: Shard Jinx


Open collar is no more of an impact in the grand scheme than the free MLP beds were.


Wrong.

And the free MLP system completely demolished the #1 sex bed system that existed before MLP.

That, is SL history.
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Tegg Bode
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05-01-2009 05:02
From: Love Hastings
Despite all of that, OpenCollar will definitely impact sales for everyone else. Free is hard to beat for most people, even if it's only "good enough."

I wonder if Open Genitals will destroy the sex trade too...............
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Shard Jinx
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05-01-2009 05:03
From: Briana Dawson
Wrong.

And the free MLP system completely demolished the #1 sex bed system that existed before MLP.

That, is SL history.


welcome to how things work.

Did they evolve and offer a better product that provided enough reason to be bought? If not, then they would have been demolished easily enough by any of the competitors offering better service and products.

I've seen about 5 or 6 different sex bed systems out there now... all competing and doing well against the free stuff just fine due to the quality of service and products.

That is what the current makers of collars are going to have to do. Offer reasons why their products are to be purchased versus the free collars (and to be honest I bought two collars made by people that did some of those using the open collar system. Because of the quality of their work they can do on the prim parts... but lack the scripting)

The proprietary scripting is going to have to step up and innovate a lot more. Much like IE had to change to provide similar features to firefox and other donation based products.
Briana Dawson
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05-01-2009 05:17
From: Shard Jinx
welcome to how things work.

Did they evolve and offer a better product that provided enough reason to be bought? If not, then they would have been demolished easily enough by any of the competitors offering better service and products.

Maybe a little knowledge of SL history helps when making such claims. Two words: Stroker Serpentine.

And when you say "Welcome to how things work". You contradict this statement:

From: Shard Jinx

Open collar is no more of an impact in the grand scheme than the free MLP beds were.


If Ford started making FREE CARS, it would KILL the rest of the car industry, even though people would still buy from the other car companies because of special items, quality, service.

I do not think you can even name 5 or 6 "sex bed systems", as i would like to see that done.

I can name 3 primary sex bed systems starting with the first to exist in SL and moving on down to the free dominating systems. If there are 5 or 6 they are definitely not on any radar because MLP dominates it.

How can you compete with it? MLP gave people a vector into the sex bed market that the majority would never have been able to get into without paying tens of man hours for a scripting system that rivaled the leader.

Claiming: "Open collar is no more of an impact in the grand scheme than the free MLP beds were." Just shows a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the market economy of SL.
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Briana Dawson
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05-01-2009 05:31
From: Shard Jinx

I've seen about 5 or 6 different sex bed systems out there now... all competing and doing well against the free stuff just fine due to the quality of service and products.


"All" competing and doing fine?

What "ALL" what systems?

- MLP
- Xpose
- SexGen
======

Those are the 3 primary. What other 3 or 4 are you seeing that are "competing and doing WELL against MLP"?

There aren't any others "doing well".

Heck, even I was working on "MLP/SexGen" style system to compete and gave up since the market saturation by MLP is so damn great you can never compete against with a commercial pay product. Period.

So when you say there are 5 or 6 "competing and doing well against the free system(MLP)", i call you on that and ask you to list them. Which i do not think you can.
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Brenda Connolly
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05-01-2009 05:56
From: Tegg Bode
I wonder if Open Genitals will destroy the sex trade too...............


Only if they aren't kept clean.
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Cristalle Karami
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Posts: 6,222
05-01-2009 06:08
MLP is almost worthless without the animations, and many people prefer to buy a pre-made bed with animations they like, since it is generally not cost effective to buy them individually. So in that respect, no, MLP doesn't kill the industry. But if something free comes with good animations, it very well will make a significant impact on content creators.
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