SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Thanks- I always thought it was not permitted- so basically the people have to police themselves?

Yup. The rule at current is one of proxmity: if a child avatar or items for child avatars are in proxmity of adult devices (say, for example, a sexgen or mlp type device within a playground), then that would potentially be actionable. Being in a mature rated sim by itself is not actionable.

Confusing sometimes, and can lead to a lot of potential pitfalls, but that seemd t'be that.

Mari

At this point, may I suggest that the organizers of the Kids5B area provide some space for non-kid "refugees" from the Linden-meddled fiasco of SL5B? Residents helping residents and all that. Let the "official" event, ruined by Linden Lab, sputter, gutter, and die a whimpering death on its own while the press and general public looks on.

I'd strongly urge ALL exhibitors in that mess to bail out and leave LL with egg on their faces.

We'd definetly need more sims.

Mari

Would you guys be open to the idea?

Float it by Jonathan Raymaker, if ya wanna

Well, I don't mind if "grownups" want to join us.

All the kids communities works 24/24 on those sims and I want to ask them before saying we welcome "grownups".

I will keep you informed.

Sacha

So scary really- I mean the goal of RP if I understand it- is to identify with what you are portraying.. so yeah- it must be a hard juggle.

The difficult part of it was somewhat addressed in a previous thread: if I TP into a place that has changed hands -- say, a former toy store plot has moved on and is now a "rape room" (thanks, Rep. Mark Kirk, for that term), then I could *potentially* run afoul of the TOS. I say potentially, because it would still be highly unlikely that I'd face an issue for that.

Mari

Interesting... So although it's never been announced anywhere official, and it is absolutely NOT a TOS or Community standards violation, a snapshot that depicts an adult and a child in ANY contect in the same photo is now forbidden? I'd like to see that from an official source...

So if I post a picture in my build of the people who participated in creating that build, standing in front of that sand castle, and if that picture shows that some were child avatars and some were adult avatars, they might close down my exhibit? Or likewise if I show a picture of my SL daughter making a sandcastle on our beach property, while I am in the photo proudly watching my little girl build? Both are absolutely G-rated activities and portrayals...

Sounds to me like, if this is a true and factual account, some staffers at LL need to go take their medications and lay down for a while...

QFT. It is a known fact that children often have adult parents or guardians in their vicinity - even in SL. O.O

I wonder if pics of me firing kids out of cannons would be ok? hehe it could be like an art type thing hehe

No that would be a depraved masochistic thing!

Maybe someone should do a series of pics with orphan or homeless street kid type avs...I mean, no adults, right?

I'm hoping that this has been misunderstood or miscommunicated. Such a restriction would make it extremely difficult to do a "NCI history" section at our booth considering that a number of residents with child AVs have been involved with NCI from the begining.

The "Policy" that no images will be permitted at SL5B which includes a child and an adult in the same pic, regardless of context, has been attributed to Everett Linden. (Surprise, surprise... The same Linden who initially tried to ban all kids from SL5B.) It has not been communicated to the SL5B exhibitors via any official means that this is Linden Policy.

I have sent an IM and a notecard to Everett Linden asking him to confirm or deny that this is actually current policy, and stating that if it is, I would like to know WHY wholesome, G-rated pictures should be censored in this manner.

If the policy is confirmed, my photo exhibit may well include several empty picture frames, accompanied by a sign stating "The blank frames would have contained G-Rated depictions of SL parents and their children. The Lindens prohibited any display of these wholesome images."

Bad-word, bad-word, BAD-word!

What the heck, man? This hockey match is supposed to be OVER.

/me sulks.

According to an update posted on the "Missing Communities" JIRA entry, it doesn't look like it's a misunderstanding.

...until it gets called one in the blog. :-/

Or maybe a gang of kids, dressed as pirates, firing E. Linden out of a cannon...

The natural response is outrage, but on reflection, probably sadness at loss of innocence is more appropriate.

On the one hand, many residents have invested a lot of effort in SL5B, and they are due some appreciation. On the other hand, a number of respected people have left on principle (and not people known for causing unnecessary drama), which makes it difficult to feel very celebratory about the whole thing.

And one can't help but wonder what SL6B can be next year, if LL really does have to worry about being liable as "sponsors" of resident content on any sims they contribute to the celebration. I don't know if they could get by with having a handful of sims with purely Linden content (think "Concierge Party", and offering a bunch more in the vicinity as greatly reduced-rate temporary rentals to private individuals and groups, over which they'd explicitly deny any oversight role (beyond ToS/CS compliance, as the rest of the Grid).

After getting approved finally, then in the light of the recent issues, I've debated strongly about pulling out. It's all so messy, with issues that affect me directly and friends on both sides of the debate.

For me, I'm going to continue to have a space at the event, if only because I think the issue can only be solved with some education. Showing my SL life would be a part of that education. If people don't see kids there, don't get exposed to what we really are... then they'll continue to see us as some creepy "other" thing outside their experience. Gotta be where the exposure is, ya know?

My Kids5B presentation, however, is going to hit those things we're seemingly "not supposed to" in SL5B.



If there will be a SL6B event, of course. I'm still holding my breath on 5B not being shuttered.

Mari

But someone might want to post a pic, and that's against policy.

So far, my exhibit, which also features pictures of several SL Kids, will also continue. At this point, each of the pictures on display depicts only child avatars, or kids together with animals (a furry child riding a Shetland pony in SL, or playing fetch with a puppy) or only a young adult avatar. I agree with Mari that education is a key point here. Letting people see that "Child Avatar" + "Second Life" does not have to equal "Pornography", any more than "RL child" + "New York City" has to equal something terrible. One can certainly argue that there are places in SL that are not good for even make-believe kids. But the same could be said for New York City. So does that mean that no child should be allowed within the city limits of New York? Of course not.

Well, I have now been told, by a VERY sympathetic and apologetic volunteer SL5B staff member, that the following G-Rated image is not allowed for display as-is at SL5B. Specifically, it is not allowed because E------ L----- says you can't have ANY image that has an adult and a child avatar in the same image on display at SL5B, regardless of context, no exceptions...



A mother and child, in full-dress Kimonos, clothed from toes to wrist and neck, not touching or even looking at each other...

So... Here is how it will be in my display... They are not "displayed in the same image". And they are separated by fireworks...



I guess SL5B is rated E... for "As censored by E------".

I wonder how they will manage to show the history of SL Birthday celebrations exhibit. Most of the historical images of past SL birthday celebrations will surely have both adult avatars and kid avatars in the same scenes.