Hypocrisy or Overreaction to an RP Region?

My oh my... well I said my bit on the whole "Berlingate" (hehehehe) debacle and wont add anymore because just as most of you I was not one of the small group of 3-4 who had the discussion and I did not read their comments to each other or the IM's flying all over the place.
I judge what I see and hear myself, in this case that wasn't much.
I know my people and trust them, in my observations I have not seen any reason not to do.
Any official complaint made to me will be seriously investigated.

It is made clear in the rules that we are not RP but do have a dress code.
We do RP now and then, but I leave that to our guests, I do not enforce it for reasons mentioned earlier.

And yes, I see this sim as my/our house, even as my private fantasy that I have opened up to others, so sometimes we have fun.
I don't feel I have to justify this to anyone, but will do so anyway.
Once... (yes once!) I decided to show my friends my lovely Datsun 1937 (oh its so sweet) and before we knew it we were having a little fun with cars.
Of course then the people start coming in again hehehe.
I think that there is no RP or semi-RP place in SL where people didn't at least once went a bit nutty and did silly stuff.

As for rules, after chasing down "nazi with angel wings and bazooka number 3556" I considered simply ejecting everyone that walks trough the huge "MUST WEAR 1920s outfit, freebies here!" wall without any discussion.
In stead I've spend even more time discussing with them and on this forum, time I don't really have.
And in stead I've learned from you some good suggestions and yes I will be experimenting with a different portal and TP point.
Hopefully with less warnings and a few welcome mats shouting warnings in stead of signs that need rezzing.
We will see.
I wonder if there is a portal that works only when you are holding something... a sort of key.... then you have to at least wait for the freebie boxes to rez and take the key from one of those boxes....

But when all fails, eventually, much to my disliking, I will probably make it a group only sim.

Aww. Don't lose heart, Jo. You have a terrific project.

Only suggestion I *might* make is that a lot of people might resist wearing the 'everyday' stuff so perhaps put in a tux or cocktail dress? I think some people have a resistance to looking 'ordinary' in SL. (Note to visitors with any Linden at all - there are shops within camming distance of the landing point. ;0) )

Manners do seem on short supply in many places. Shame you have to deal with it so often. Maybe once the sim's been around a bit longer the word will get out that it has certain rules, and people will listen better.

I would hate that you have to do that, but it will cut down on any confusion. I will try my best to visit your sim before you take such action. It sounds wonderful.

Ah it takes more for me to lose my heart... like open heart surgery!
People that know me call me the Undutchable

I will NOT give people flashy fancy freebies, SL has too many giant rich posh people already
Seriously though, I love the free dress and wore it for ages when not wearing my waitress outfit I made myself.
This is what most people wore in the 1920s street, so I don't see the problem but then again, I never really cared about fashion.... well till I started wearing 1930 clothing in RL that was... and even then I prefer the normal common day to day stuff.
But who knows, perhaps I can ask the maker to be as generous to add one with another fabric, or something.

Still I don't really get it, if you are just there to have a look, who cares what you have to wear.
If you want to do more then just look, indeed, plenty of outfits for sale for reasonable prices in camming reach.
Personally I have never cared about all this, I've visited lots of RP sims and always put on their free kit and didn't mind if it wasn't very nice.
But thats just me, perhaps I've been living in Amsterdam too long... hehehe.

I agree with all of that, and it was just a notion.

(I was fairly giant and posh on my visit myself, but, didn't know I would be til I was inside, I guess. Tweaking the av proportions as well as size might've taken a while...I'm not sure I would be good at making a shorter av. Still, I did feel a bit like a giant at 6'11" SL size in heels. The on-staff avis were about half my height!)

As for the posh bit - would Berliners have come there to go slumming at times? (bad part of town)

I probably won't do that, not as long as SL won't allow us more groups then 25! lol
Seriously though, I don't think that this problem will last.
We were up to about 50 visitors a day before we got into showcase, most of these were people we knew and who simply couldn't stay away.
And I think that once we will no longer be showcased our visitor number will go down to that again or perhaps a bit higher and our visitors will be people who didn't click all over showcase but that looked for some of our keywords and will thus probably have little problems adjusting.

Oh don't get me started on size!!!
I get frustrated being tiny although my avatar is about 6ft just like I am in RL!
But we decided to let that one slip, people seem to like to be giants.
Still, too tall and you will bump your head and poseballs wont work perfectly... so subtle persuasion there... hehehe
I think I got a measurement thing from fraulein Dawson her place after someone told me about it, comes with great documentation.
Thanks for that!

And yes, Berliners, especially men, would have visited the backstreets in their glamour outfits... but discreet so their wives wouldn't find out hehehehe.
But we also have a Washerwoman, short, wearing a common dress and apron, carrying around a heavy basket, we have street kids getting into trouble and our corrupt cop Fritz (you could bribe him! Did anyone try that when stopped?).

Hurrah for the working classes!

Serious comment...

...as someone who has dealt with a lot of these issues in the past, rules signs commonly won't rez during peak traffic times.

Generally the only way to do it, if you must go this route, is have the rules sign also be the only~access teleporter, and write down its function in amongst the rules.

Otherwise most people port in, and often fly up a bit to look around before flitting away.

There are also a lot of unspoken rules, which I've learned from 3.5 years of dealing with themed regions ~ you'll probably get *more* in theme visitors if you don't say anything, than if you do.

Remember the two forces of "everyone wants to fit in and have a good experience if they can" coupled with "I'm a rebel and always want to put asserted authority in its place."

You'll have some people simply show up as they are ~ furries or whatnot, it's true ~ because that *is* a significant component of who they are, but a fur in a proper suit is far less degrading to the actual experience than say, someone talking about their recent visit to the optometrist, or suchlike.

Best of luck with it all; I certainly am not the end all of experience with regard to managing regions and I'm a particularly light touch myself ~ for ultrasuccessful "strict theme" management I'd suggest talking to NeoBokrug Elytis of The Wastelands, or perhaps Mosseveno Tenk of New Babbage ~ both who run fine areas that adhere a little more strictly to theme rules than my Caledon. They both do a fine job.

* * * * *

I would also gently offer this: let go a little. Breathe the free air of fun and friendship, don't sweat the theme so much, and let the residents and visitors alike fight the good fight and raise you up... because they deeply *want* to. You'll find your theme suddenly and very strongly championed.

Elric and Pip would be some of your strongest supporters in such an environment, as would literally thousands of others. Caledon has literally tens of thousands of in theme visitors per week (something like 20,000 these days) ~ a few random, out of theme visitors aren't going to break it. The secret to my big thematic win was to give up a little control, and unleash the creativity of thousands. Do that, and there will be no stopping you, in whatever you want to do.

Hey, as long as I don't look like Posh Beckam. There's nothing wrong with it. LOL

/me sings "Working Class Hero"...

I had wondered if kid avs were allowed there at all but did not want to add another hot button topic of discussion. So they are? Where are places that I could tell people they can find 1920s kid clothes?

No I didn't try to bribe the cop, what a funny thing though. I will have to try that. Maybe I will come dressed as a lady of the eve (gotta try that skulking pose ball I saw!) and tip him to turn the other way...(the rp ends there in case anyone's wondering, I know it isn't on Zindra!!)

I like your blend of visual rp and not textual being imposed - people seem to get bored silly on many theme roleplay sims (I haven't rp'ed in Caledon this isn't aimed at anyone here!) if not allowed to let off steam once in a while, or forced to stick to theme. I think that is because it's more work, and also, it's basically improvisational acting - and with historical or fantasy-based research a requisite. Most people just want to playact a little while or enjoy the feeling of 'immersion.'

I think if there were more sims in which the setting and costumes were authentic but people could 'be themselves' within TOS it would revive the somewhat sickly state of SL roleplay sims overall.

When I was there (to Desmond's post) the people stayed there several minutes - plenty of time to read the very brief, large lettered signs on the walls - no room to fly up - and then ran in without changing clothes besides. Even if the signs didn't rez, the note card must've.

The rest of it I didn't care about, but this part I needed to comment on. There are those who will take the time to let the creator/owner know something isn't working. Will take the time to work with someone to find the problem, and fix it. I know, because I am one of them. When I find a vendor that isn't working, I IM the owner and let them know, and know the location also. If I find vendors in a mall that have the items set to sale for 0l, but no mention of them supposing to be free, I IM the owner and ask if that is proper. Why? Because so many things get broke by LL's actions, and why should the owner/creator be thought less of because of something outside their control.

Some people do care enough to try and lend a helping hand out, rather than just speed along for their own pleasure.

I've found a number of 20s suits for men on Xstreet, and I'd wager there is appropriate attire there for women, as well. Rather than fight a losing battle here (yeah it sucks you were told to change your clothes), why not just accept the freebie clothes for now so you can visit your friend's thing, or find something on Xstreet that is a bit more suitable?

I have no issue with dress codes on various sims. If I get caught on a sim that has a dress code, as I often do from map hopping, I change or leave. The only thing I really object to is exclusion, such as women's only clubs, but that's just me

Little shopping tip. 1 800 Bettie's has "flapper heels" and The Dominion Fashion District, as of right now, has 5 'unisex' fedoras (hats that would suit the period) as a freebie. The fedoras come in 5 colors and are outside and near the 'gifts.'

Now if I could recall where I saw one of those flapper pearl necklaces that drapes down the back...

I have a string of those! I think I got it at Ivalde!

Thank you!

Miss Pipsqueak, it's been years since someone responded negatively to being called Dear, Miss, Madame, Ma'am, Madam, Sir or Mister. I was raised a lot by older relatives, even went to manners classes as a child, and collect etiquette books of the Victorian era through the late 1940's. I also live in the South. Initially addressing someone I do not know without such a term is unthinkable, unless it's an emergency.

There is an important difference between how you posted what I said, and what I actually said.

You suggested that I said "Um Pipsqueak dear."

I said "Pipsqueak dear."

"Um" suggests that I'm about to be a snot. Without it (and, indeed, I did not use it), it was entirely intended as one putting an arm around you, like a grandmother. Indeed, I did not use "Um." I also call people "Pipsqueak Miss" or "Miss Pipsqueak" when first addressing them (changing the name, of course). I do prefer to use the last names, however, when we have several people in chat, and a lot of new folks (especially those recently born), it's easier for them to identify with their first name (as they came up with it), rather than their last. You are free to interpret it as you wish, however, I have told you now exactly how I intended my address. There was no malice involved. I was not looking down my nose at you.

You and Mr Elric then went on, when I first arrived at the location, and repeated my request for a change of clothing (simply put, "I have asked that you change. There are free outfits at the front if you need one.", about how horrible I am, to include the Nazi references. After you and Mr Elric went on in open chat about how mean I am, and berated me, I said, "Yes, I suck. I ruin your life." That is exactly what I said. You two behaved as though I had, in fact, ruined your life. Which became even more evident when Mr Elric started messaging me after he departed. I regret the use of the word "suck," however, it did not come until after you two and your resident friend went on for a bit about how terrible I am. But that is no excuse, I apologize for my use of the word "suck." It, however, could not have been the cause of your ranting in open chat, because my words came after.

I enjoy talking with and educating a great many of the visitors about the life that we portray in Berlin. You chose, however, not to engage me in conversation, but to tell me no with no reasonable explanation (I refer to Miss Pipsqueak), and then berate me (I refer to all who were there). Openly and in message, both while you were there, after, after you left.

That's really all I need to say. I would have enjoyed speaking with you, as I do a great many of our guests, who are approached by me in the same manner you were, but that was not the path you chose to take.

PS For those of you concerned about the cars in the square, I'll let you in on a detail about me. I drive extremely poorly. I am a very old-fashioned woman, and, in real life, I never learned to drive, either. So, the poor driving was not off of the mark. I am, and I'm not ashamed to admit, "a woman driver." Had I been driving the car in the real Berlin of 1929, I probably would have been in a great deal of trouble, because I really would have run over several people.

Score:

- Mila 2
- Pipsqueak 0

Am in the sim now - in fact in the bar with some of the people mentioned in this thread. *waves*

Having a great time.

I am insulted when people don't call me miss, its even on my business card.... and the Dutch word for Miss has gone out of use and practically dissapeared from our language in the 1950s heheheh.

I try to relate to being called dear or 'hun' in context and with the person's personality and whether they were ticked at me at the time. I don't take it as an insult unless they are clearly spitting venom at the time. Even then...

I mean what is with the naming/shaming in this thread anyway? Couldn't the topic have been broached without being so specific where this happened?

Are you hiding bondage gear somewhere in that build!

Ok, that is one free lukewarm beer for you

Oh thank you. Lol.

*raises glass*

You mean: Thank you, Miss.

Funny. I am insulted when people DO call me Miss. It usually happens when I head into a popular Jazz club and the host doesn't bother to look at the person entering the establishment before greeting them.