Hypocrisy or Overreaction to an RP Region?

Thread winner!

Jo, it's great that you've put so much work and attention into getting the period right with your sim. As for all the pickyness in this thread, I'm sure it's done with love.

*glares at the nitpickers*

WITH
LOVE
DAMMIT!

How about having the sim's landing point be in a train station? Then you have plenty of space to have a "Neutral zone" where visitors can come, read the rules, and not get harrassed, and their TP's in and out don't disrupt the rp. And outlandish costumes can just be explained that "they must be from Amsterdam, or France" or some other joke.

You could even have a "Duty Free' shop, where people can pick up themed freebies. (get it, duty FREE?)

then when people want to log off, they can RP that they "must catch the train out to Statsdorf to attend a rally".. or whatever. they walk over to the train station, and poof out.

Besides.. then you get to build a 1920's European train station! What an amazing welcome area that could be.

P.S. Do people have to RP *IN* German? I only know enough German to locate and procure schnitzel, and find a restroom.

Well, before I crashed (was at work and too many things open), managed to make it in.. looks great. And was able to fit in even though I am a Pixie.. then again, Pixies are good at sneaking in most anywhere..

Indeed, great well known photo.
But these are hardly common every day women walking trough Berlin
And on our stages in shows and clubs, people do wear all sorts of outfits, risking a police raid.
But when performing in that sort of outfits its usually better to wear a coat on your way to work, in sl and rl

Thank you very much!
I had not yet researched female police, I knew they were around in some places, no Berlin too.
Cheers!
Thank you for the two cents, much appreciates

I've seen a few drunken lines of this open quite a few doors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQH9gqU4cE

grin

besides, those damned kollege kids were ALWAYS pushing the envelope (not to mention tire air pressure...)

I LOVE that idea, not sure if prims would allow it though, we are strictly rationed, must be because of WW1
We are seriously consindering a new seperate entrance point with tp to Berlin, just to give people some time to walk around and perhaps buy some clothes besides the freebies.
I see prims melting like butter in the sun but thats the almighty eternal plight of SL

And no, RP in German is not needed, my German is barely enough to manage hehehe.
It is welcome and many here do speak German, but most speak English if need be and in many places the signs, notecards, etc are in English too.
Just some of the movies and news in the cinema is in German.

Yes we kept an eye on you
Seriously though, you got a nice suit managed to hide your wings a bit under your arms, etc.
If you made it to the bar I would have given you a extra strong drink though, thinking you'd need it because of your gray skin lol

Indeed!
Not to mention that it was also a golden age for drugs.
Absinthe had just been banned in Germany but people were on cocaine, opium and all sorts of fun stuff.
A elderly lady I knew who was very up to date with the modern world once described the 1920s as "One long Rave"... I had to look up what that mend lol.

By the way, if anyone can come with a bunch of avatars dressed like that on a bike like that, they get free semi-fresh peanuts and some lukewarm beer!

And a lovely pixie you are!

Photos are a good idea. This was how I appeared last night at the Berlin region:


Not quite in theme, but I thought the best I could cobble together. I think my hair was the most offensive (I have a braided ponytail). Oh, and I just noticed... ha ha... the monocle... definitely wrong! Certain parts of myself are so constant I forget they are there.

So after making a hasty departure, I went to Virtual Harlem (with nary an issue) thusly:

And a fun time was had!

And here's hoping that in time, more apropos fashions will descend upon SL. Two years and a bit ago there was very little for the elegant Goth or Victorian and now, I'm almost buying an ensemble every week! So who knows!

Still... I, personally, maintain that to feel a part of the experience, one cannot count on visuals alone, and out of character and out of place horseplay, antics and chatter do take the authenticity down a notch. But again, that's me personally.

And, of course, SL is so vast, and filled with so much diversity, there is something for everyone (apologies for repeating myself here).

Cheers, all.

A Train station entrance would matter not.

People arrive and walk before things are rez'd along what ever prim corridor offers them no resistance.

Even at Doomed Ship with an obvious area to stop and get into character, people still miss it all and/or do not care.

At Jo's build i saw at least 2 people arrive via teleport, leave the arrival area, and proceed to walk into walls of the builds oblivious to everything except their will to move along a path until something that catches their eye rez's.

If you make a temporary area that requires people to access a teleporter to get to the final destination, you increase the chance that they won't stay at all and you still have the people who will go "zomg i am locked in a room quick where is the teleport (and not give a damn about any messages on the walls rez'd unless they say "TELEPORT".

I watch this behavior all the time at clubs, and even at our Promiscuous club, when we had the 162m yacht rezzed, people would arrive and start walking into walls - just moving for the sake of moving and not stopping until things rez'd for them to see. Kind of idiotic, you would think they would stay still and then when things rez'd move. No, it is exactly the opposite.

And the funny thing is that when i was making our club, a couple people i consulted told me that would be the behavior of the arrivals so i had better fill the gaps on the railings so people don't fall overboard, and they were right - people fell overboard - by the dozen.

I guess the only other time i have seen this behavior is when we had Telehubs. People would buy up the land around the telehubs and make giant stores and signs so that when you appeared all you saw was stuff to buy. But what did peopel do? They would appear and fly immediately horizontal - and end up trapped in a build that rez'd around them instead of waiting for the near builds to rez and then flying - or simply flying up first and then moving lateral.

People want to move. Not stop and read. The moment you give them "steps" to arrive at their final destination, you begin culling the herd of possible visitors.

If all you want are the "really interested" visitors then you can easily make that possible by creating a enough steps to entrance that those causally interested will leave and those seriously interested will continue.

a bit that i'd forgotten in an earlier post. someone touched on it earlier and i would just like to reintroduce the subject. two things that are, unfortunately, first brought to mind when one mentions Berlin are a) nazi Germany and b) the Berlin wall, neither of which were representative of all of Berlin, much less Germany or its people. i thnk one of the biggest benefits in showing 1920's Berlin is an opportunity to portray so much that had been lost by the following decades. buried, forgotten, ignored.

though i do have to question the offer of "semi-fresh peanuts", because i don't think trucks in those days qualify as being semis...



(now i'm going to have to dig out a low lag alt and check things out... Sherman, set the wayback machine for 1920's Berlin...)

I could have used the strong drink. That skin was the one that had the strongest red lipstick, which was soo vogue then, and wasn't green or blue or yellow.

I will have to visit again tomorrow, since by the time I got in there, I had to do work again, and crashed while having too many programs open.

I'm not sure if the OP is the one in a furry avatar who I saw complaining about "racism" when asked to use a human avatar when I visited the sim, and I'm still not sure if that complaint was funny, pathetic, or both. Honestly, though, the rules of the area could not be clearer: they're messaged immediately upon TP, and multiple copies are posted all over the link-in point. People who push ahead to see if they get a reaction are trolling, pure and simple.

Isn't it wonderful how virtual worlds allow privileged people* to feel just as oppressed as those with little food, little freedom, and little hope? Self-righteous indignation by proxy server.

*Can you afford a computer and an Internet connection that meets the technical demands of SL, and do you have the free time to use it? Then you're privileged.

Absolutely not! I may be a part time fur, but I would do nothing intentionally to offend another unless I truly felt they deserved it (and it takes a lot to push me that far).

If you read my posts throughout this thread very clearly, you will read that I made an effort to blend as best as my wardrobe would permit (although in hindsight realized that hair and monocle should have been most defnitely swapped out). Please read my original post and successive comments again.

Fraulein Jo, can you post an SLURL for the sim? I'm very curious to see it.

I have not been to this sim. But I rp'd in Deadwood. There they have no visitor's tags - everyone must be in period clothes, and wearing a combat meter - even the schoolmarm - which I was.

You arrive in a large OOC sim, where the rules are posted, and freebies are available - as well as more things for purchase. At one point, as you walk to the stage to Deadwood, you are informed you are going into an IC area.

When you arrive at Deadwood, you are on the edge of town, and walk in.


I don't see anything wrong with having strict IC RP sims. Especially when they provide freebie clothes at the entry point.

I agree.

But when the participants/residents are not IC (in behaviour or chatter), this concept breaks down. By her own admission, the creator of this region stated that IC behaviour and chatter is not necessary -- visuals only. THIS is something that should be explained, otherwise one has a very skewed perception of what is and is not permitted.

That was my entire point and why I was befuddled and taken aback.

Thank you, Mr. Anatine, for starting this thread. Since I was the other half of the offending party at the 1920's Berlin sim with you last night , I will chime in with one or two small points.

As an educator, I'm always thrilled by historically accurate builds. I was particularly interested in this build as it was narrowly focused, unique and was supposed to represent a pivotal period in the history of a great country. And since my excellent friend had done some work there, we were anticipating quite a treat. Instead we were insulted, bullied and threatened.

Jo stated in this thread that her sim is meant to be a history immersion, not a RP sim. This implies to me that its intent is educational. Unfortunately, Jo and some of her staff completely miss the point of what it means to educate in immersive environments and how learning occurs. Learning in these environments can take place either by observation or by interpersonal participation. The student is better served by being given a choice in how they wish to interact with the environment. Putting aside the terrible experience we had in 1920's Berlin, I'm sorry to say that this sim fails to provide a safe learning environment where people can engage to the level of their personal comfort. It also fails as an RP environment since one is not allowed to explore OOC before kitting up and engaging the other participants.

I understand that the staff of this location may have been overwhelmed by the Showcase traffic. Mr. Anatine and I had our home in the showcase and we were overrun with people. However, this is what we wanted when we applied for the showcase. The Showcase is a marketing vehicle. The 1920's Berlin management should have relaxed their rules for the Showcase period to introduce new visitors to their work with the intention that many of them would feel welcomed and come back to engage in the RP and to potentially donate money. I find it both astounding and appalling that donations are so aggressively sought in a place where only a select few are actually welcomed.

On a personal note, I would have been more inclined to dress in the frumpy hausfrau outfit provided for visitors had the monitor approached me in a respectful and professional manner. Jo says that she can only fix what she is informed about but I'm sorry to say that is a bad manager's cop-out--you train your people to conduct themselves in way that represents your wishes and beliefs. I can only assume that this person was given license to harass us and to rudely engage our friend in open chat. It was over the top OOC on this person's part and my 1930's dress was unacceptable? The whole experience was simply embarrassing.

I do not doubt that the static elements of this build are wonderful and have great potential for learning. Unfortunately, the behavior of the management/residents seems to guarantee that this historical sim will likely never be engaged in a meaningful way by people who are really interested in learning about Berlin in the 1920's.

Pip Fiddlesticks

Any vacancies, Jo?

I enjoyed my visit last night, and was delighted to be able to supply the bar with illegal absynthe. Oh, and I found the poseballs you were looking for, Briana . . .

Pep (Actually spent some of his time there trying to persuade Melita that her dress was too *long*! )

PS I think your monocle was fine Elric, but now the person who accompanied you has posted, it sounds to me like a case of two over-reacting over-emotional females - but then, that is nothing new in the forums.

Yesterday in Berlin!



I could hide most of the tats, but the pierces ain't goin nowhere!

As I read the rest of the thread - which was after I posted - I noted that, according to the sim owner, it's not an RP sim - they just want you to dress the part.

They have freebies available - they asked you to change. So buy the freebies, and put 'em on. No big deal.

In sims of this sort it's up to them to call the shots on things like that.

Greetings,

I am Mila Edelman, the operator in question in this thread.

If I should post the logs of how Mr Elric and Miss Pipsqueak behaved, I would be banned from these message boards. And I believe that Mr Elric and Miss Pipsqueak are fully aware of this, too.

It is with this knowledge that, I feel, they proceed to misrepresent the event so completely. I feel that their feathers were ruffled by being told that they were inappropriately attired, even if it was done nicely. And now, because they know full well that logs of chats cannot be posted, they can misrepresent the situation as much as they would like.

I asked them nicely in open chat, near the front gate, to change. It was actually Miss Pipsqueak's outfit that was more of a problem. Miss Pipsqueak can claim, as she likes, that she felt her outfit was appropriate. Ultimately, we did not feel that way.

Mr Elric and Miss Pipsqueak proceeded to walk by and ignore us. As that's something that happens commonly, especially when people first arrive, I messaged Miss Pipsqueak. I was not rude, I was not impatient. I did not use abusive language. But I did make my request. And she informed me that she would not be changing. I did repeat that she did need to be in appropriate attire to be here, and received no further response.

At this point, I headed down to where they were hanging out. I reminded her that I did ask her to change, and let her know that we do offer freebies up at the front for those that are without 20's attire.

Miss Pipsqueak and Mr Elric then proceeded to make a multitude of Nazi references about me, along with asserting that they would not be changing their clothing. And then they left.

After they left, Mr Elric then messaged me, telling me about his father in WW2, about how he knows about the Nazis, and so forth. He also repeatedly attempted to insult me (in ways that had nothing to do with WW2 or Nazism) in this message conversation. Not only was I a history major, but I am also a German, and my family has been personally touched by WW2, in ways that still affect down to my own generation. It is offensive to the memory of events to compare the situation to Nazism. While I did find the comparison ridiculous, and I found Mr Elric abusive, I did not yell, or scream, or shout about that.

On a personal side, I know myself, as do those who know me, and watch me working day to day. I know that I make every effort to be polite, kind and helpful. I take people to message to avoid the huge chat scroll. I assist them with their clothing. I smile constantly. There are a few people who do not feel that way, but the list is extremely limited. I am firm, but I am not rudely firm. My Friend list is now filled with visitors to Berlin because of it--even consisting of people I've had to escort back to the front for an outfit. I make a point to engage as many as possible as time permits, and have met some wonderful people because of it. I've even made friends in the midst of huge arriving crowds, which suggests that my taking time with each person is quite positive.

Wow, the plot thickens. This has gotten rather juicy, I hope I get some work done today.