Hypocrisy or Overreaction to an RP Region?

If your contention is that in the 1920s in Berlin, EVERYONE wore clothing that had been manufactured in the 1920s, I would guess that your contention is wrong.

As is true today, many individuals, throughout history, have worn clothing that was manufactured NOT this year or last year or even the year before, but, possibly, a decade or more ago.

Almost certainly there were people living in the actual Berlin in the actual 1920s, who wore clothing made during Queen Victoria's reign.

Now, granted, this argument doesn't apply to clothing made a few years after (rather than before) your target time period. But from the description given, the clothing in question was not donned in order to disrespect you or your efforts; it was chosen in the hope that it wouldn't be far off the mark.

In fact, from the OP's evidence (and the fact that well-known individuals have vouched for his general integrity and good will), both the OP and his friend made a genuine effort to display respect for your work.

I want to join others who've posted in expressing admiration for your efforts to provide this interesting SL experience. And I can certainly understand the frustrations that must have arisen when your traffic went up so precipitously, post-Showcase mention.

But: I do think your fellow sim-citizen's conduct, with respect to the OP, was less than helpful to you and your goals. I'd suggest that you might want to consider discussing, with all your citizens, whether such conduct contributes to the welfare and prosperity of your enterprise.

Yes, I'm familiar with the concept (/me smiles at Des), but even non profits can be run like a business in that:

"We require $XYZ to sustain and grow, therefore we need to appeal to a narrow/broad/pick your size base of persons".

Once more I was making an assumption -- that donations were important. I really must stop making assumptions. /me chuckles

That is not my contention.
And generally we are rather tolerant, allowing often Edwardian, 30s and sometimes even 40s outfits although those would not have been seen in 20s Berlin.
You would not have seen many women wearing Victorian clothing in 20s Berlin except perhaps elderly people, as most avatars seem to be in their 20s or 30s.
If someone would come in as a old woman or man, wearing Victorian kit, it would be fine.
It also depends on the kind of outfit, some Victorian outfits (especially for men) did not change much for many decades, some are very typical of only a certain era.



Of course, but I can only do this if the people involved talk to ME about it and complain about the person who perhaps has been rude.
There is little I can do if I don't know who said what, what who was wearing, who called who what, etc, etc.

I have been listening to what goes on at the gate (sometimes right there, sometimes up in my private zeppelin ) and I have not heard anything I felt was wrong.
If I do or if someone tells me, I will do something about it.

They are important, after all how else will I one day be able to afford a huge 1920s mansion with lots of handsome servants
From day one we have gathered people around who really love the place, "I've been looking for a Weimar sim for ages" is something I've heard a few times.
To be honest, I said it myself when I got to SL and thats why I decided to build it.
So I guess we've been very lucky so far and yes, when we decide to make the place even bigger and get a sim, when our costs go up, we may have to look at this thing differently and perhaps create another shopping era nearby and houses with the same theme one can rent but outside the city or something.
We'll see!
Learning as we go along
We only had our official opening about 2 weeks ago or so

I think for two weeks being open, you have all done an excellent job. I know from experience what being in Showcase can do to the influx Being that lots of new folks [to SL] use Showcase to explore, it becomes even more tough, having to explain how SL works, let alone teaching them to buy clothes and then wear them. Imagine, folks who are long-time residents having a tough time dealing with finding 1920's outfits that are in-theme opposed to newbs just trying out our World and not even knowing where the inventory button is. .. tough row to hoe .. kudos to you and the crew, Jo and Welcome to SL and the Forum.

Fair enough.



This topic has gotten me interested in several points. For one, I've been trying to find information on the question of female-police-officers in Berlin in your time period (inspired by the trenchant post made by 23rdDjin Negulesco on the first page of this thread). Clearly, if your fellow-citizens are going to use 'historical accuracy' as a rationale for asking visitors to change their appearance or anything else, those citizens should, themselves, be as historically accurate as possible.

I didn't find anything. (Most Internet-accessible information on female police seems centered on the US and the UK.) That certainly doesn't constitute evidence that there were no such police officers in 1920s Berlin, but...it does raise questions.

(I don't say this to add to the no-doubt heavy load of work you face in the creation and running of your installation. But if your associates are going to impose penalties like expulsion or banning on visitors on the basis of Historical Accuracy, then surely they should do so from a position of being H.A., rather than from a position of being Historically Unlikely.)

Any century-old residents who can give us an authoritative answer?

I didn't realize there was enough 1920s German clothing in SL to populate a sim full of RPers, let alone a single avatar... O.o

Seems to me that if you're going to get ultra obscure, you're going to have to relax in your rules.

The reason Elric is in tears, is because I haven't changed so much as a vest since 2006... and he knows it... laughs

Undoubtedly, even a greatly aged, out~of~his~generation Desmond tottering around in Berlin in the 20's would have looked many decades out of style ~ that's a given!


...and yes, *this* is sounding a bit more appropriate for the thread, especially in regard to the necessity of starched collars and proper shoes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21yzXbPGhWc

(up tempo!)

You're the cream in my coffee
You're the salt in my stew
You will always be my necessity
I'd be lost without you...

You're the starch in my collar
You're the lace in my shoe
You will always be my necessity
I'd be lost without you!

Most men tell love tales
And each phrase dovetails,
You've heard each known way
This way is my own way!

You're the sail of my love boat
You're the captain and crew
You will always be my necessity
I'd be lost without you!

This one is more appropriate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK5-F9mLp4Y

It's beyond tears, Des. There's not enough absinthe in the world to soothe my wounded soul regarding the very thought that you might be more fashionably kitted out than I!

But you know, there's an advantage to your timeless avatar -- very easy to spot... always.

It seems there were German policewomen during WW1. They wore blue cloaks and bonnets. Were those in SL Berlin dressed appropriately?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=first+German+policewomen+history&hl=en&sa=G&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=61B3SrulEI-SjAertuSnBg&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11

and

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=980DE4DA153FE233A25756C0A9619C946596D6CF

As reported in the New York Times. The policewoman was addressed as "Sister".

That doesn't explain why Victorian garb was verboten when a mink coat with nothing underneath was OK. Based on the page I quoted, the only rule in Wiemar Berlin was... there are no rules.

Yeah - well Jo hasn't been around here very long. She'll learn or fail.

Blue cloaks and bonnets sound very Victorian - lol!

Edit:
Mink coat with nothing on beneath - hmmmmmm. Now I've learnt something else about the Weimar Republic other than extreme hyper-inflation. (Must be why they "sell" that map.)

I'll bet the "sister" designation came about from some sort of association of women who served in law-and-order capacities with women who served in medical capacities (the use of Sister as the title of nurses was very widespread in English-speaking nations).



Off-topic: now I'm wondering if Google UK has a different system than Google US, as my search terms had been so similar to yours, yet didn't turn up the 1913 reference. (I'd used "history - police - Germany - female OR women." Perhaps the inclusion of 'first' made the difference.)

Like being a nun, I suppose. A policewoman in 1920's Berlin would have to have a vocation.

I can't explain Google - it's all in the spiders, so I'm told.

Back on topic... I think Jo's objectives need better planning if they are to be made compatible with each other. She says she wants an "experience and not 100% role play". Either you role play or you don't - you can't 70% role play. You might role play well or poorly - but you are either trying to role play or you are not. So if she wants this to work, she will have to split it up - either into role playing areas or role playing times.

Unfortunately, LL didn't do her any favours with their blog entry, because that makes no mention of Berlin being themed in the 1920s - and implies that it is something like a social networking site for German residents. If people are visiting after reading that, they will not have expectations of being "rule driven".

As a business venture it seems more akin to an educational theme park - like visiting Dickens' World or similar. A model whereby you have dedicated role players who remain in character and a visitors' tour taking people around could work.

I bet you're right about that. (And it's a noticeable pattern in human relations, to want to cast females in the image of 'helper' or 'family' roles rather than in images connoting 'this person wields power'. But that's definitely a separate topic!)








Wow, yes, that does explain a lot of the problems Jo and her associates seem to have run into (not counting the OP as 'a problem', but rather referring to some of the incidents Jo described in her posts.)

A good lesson to be learned there by anyone about to be graced by an LL Blog entry...DO ask for an accurate description!

in Berlin, in the 1920's, did the Police routinely tell people to remove their clothes?

(ask them why their movie theatre has a 1950-1970's educational movie projector.)

Yes, and why are people Teleporting into the sim? Should't they be brought over on a steam powered ferry?

Well I should be very disappointed if I did not see architecture and design from the Bauhaus, hear the music of Kurt Weil and see theatre and films by Max Reinhardt.

gah.

Leave Jo and her sim alone.

They are hardcore clothing nazi's at the entrance, but it makes the experience that much better since everyone looks like they belong there.

They put a lot of work into the sim and although it is not my period, it looks nice. I think it is a good build of average quality for SL and worth seeing if you like period themes.

1. You are right about the police, we put a lot of effort and money into getting 1 authentic enough police outfit.
There should NOT be a police woman, shes also not in uniform.
During the rush we had to act fast so I gave her that group title in stead of setting up a new one.
We will think of a better title when we get some time

2.Fraulein Dawson;
"it makes the experience that much better since everyone looks like they belong there."
You put it better in one sentence then I did in 435894385672 sentences.

3.To sort of slowly end my input to this discussion here is a nice picture from my archive

Polizei in 1920s Berlin checking girls to see if their dresses are not too short

http:www.//yfrog.com/7h35329512454099296f35j

Those skirts seem to be kneel length or higher to me, even if you consider the wind.

i retract my statement of hypocrisy due to proof having been found that they did, indeed, employ wowen on the police force (in fact, according to the article, welcomed them... quite the opposite of MANY nations forces, to this day). Jo, you do have every right to have female police officers, though it may be a bit of a chore finding the correct uniform. i believe that what happened was simply an employee trying just a bit too hard to do their job, forgetting that, as an employee, in whatever capacity, they are a face for the entire venture and should also act with as much diplomacy as possible.
not that my opinion makes a whit of difference, but i do give my stamp of approval. though i haven't visited, it does sound like a great deal of time and effort have been invested (and, dare i say, love) into the creation, as well as an offering of free clothing to wear at the welcome center (which, i suspect, will have more articles added as time goes on, to allow for a bit of variety among newcomers). on top of this i will add that Jo has done a more than capable job of fielding the questions, statements, and insults that quickly arrived, as well as stated a good case for what they are trying to achieve in both look and feel.
just my two cents worth. now, if i ever feel compelled to be this serious 49 more times, i'll have a whole linden in my pocket...

So, last Q, would Art Speigelman's "MAUS" characters be allowed in?

(not the nazi cats, maybe, but the jewish mice and american dogs)