Exploitation by Clubs of SL Prostitutes

Mole,

You and I squabble but we generally keep it civil. I thank you for that.

Okay, makes sense. However, the escorts that don't see that it's a problem have not dealt with the abuse. I never asserted that it was across the board - I could dig up a quote where I said it happened at many - but not necessarily a majority of clubs.

There are obviously many escorts who have not been abused, likely the majority. It is entirely possible for one person in an industry to not be exploited and not see a problem, and another person in the industry to have the opposite opinion, as has been expressed as well.

It's expressing both sides that's healthy. I am glad we are hearing from both sides. What I don't like is when people claim "I have not had a problem so there is no problem." That's called the fallacy of hasty generalization - assuming is true from just one example. There clearly are example on both sides of the argument. Eh?

EDIT: responding to Mole's edit - There are at least 3 or 4 escorts / dancers who have said things such as "I have seen escorts treated badly" and "I was treated badly so I left" and such. I have not made any concrete assessment of the scope of the problem, so there's really no way to say anyone can "agree / disagree completely" with me. I said there's a problem; the thread explores the scope and breadth of it.

As I posted in another thread today..... one of my alts is an escort.... so don't count me in as one or your "it's a problem" people.

And I haven't counted but two people who agree at all with you.

Hiro. Seriously dude. Give it up. It is becoming quite sad, like a fly caught in a spider's web... the more you flap around, the more tangled you get - you keep proving that you are out to prove something, not to actually discuss the matter.

A premise MUST BE debatable to be considered. Otherwise it is merely a statement. That statement can be opinion or fact. Opinions are not debatable. Like anuses, we all have them. Facts can be argued about in terms of TRUTH. You have an underlying premise in your argument that you don't seem to recognize.... you also assume that those who post will agree with the premise. Not a great place to start an open discussion.

If you don't want open discussion, identify your threads as something like, - rant! Proselytizing Ahead! or even.. .Hiro's Pontifications.

Then readers will know what they are in for. You keep denying this is the case.. but you keep making the same silly mistake.

Granted.

And any counter-arguments given a chance to be rebutted, no? By your argument, I should be allowed to debate your arguments against mine. You mock me for doing so. This is a logical contradiction.

nvm dupe post

Okay.. education mode on for poor Hiro.

YOU presented what you claim is a debatable premise. You were incorrect in your assessment that it IS debatable as stated. WE (as a group of respondents in your thread) have tried and tried to show you your ignorance and help you remove it from yourself. You resisted and insisted on retaining it. Still we tried.

Now you try yet again to blameshift (see, I can throw around academic crap terms too you putz) by claiming I should debate your rebuttals.... but you forget I still don't grant that you have provided a debatable premise in the first place. You assume stuff I do not accept - as such, your topic is not debatable.

I haven't really made a full argument other than that your underlying premises have made your topic non-debatable. Go back to square one and start over.

That's a pure logical fallacy.

"Escorts hate the exploitation, and I'm here to make it all better!"

"Funny, I'm not seeing any escorts complaining."

"Oh, well those escorts don't count because they aren't actually being exploited."

If you have a LARGE number of quotes you could dig up, do so. They're imaginary until they're actually presented as fact.

Your first statement is a thinly veiled straw man attack. This invalidates your invalidation

Let me post some quotes from this thread:





And yes, the majority of escorts who posted said that they were not exploited. That's fine. I never asserted that it was a majority.

We discussed the matter.
We heard both sides.
It's been reduced to stating over and over again that it was a valid discussion.
It was a valid discussion.
it's over.

Hiro says it is so.
So mote it be!

I WISH I had that power and authority in any aspect of my life, SL or RL. 'twould be nice.

Hiro

I am not here to troll or flame your thread. I just don't understand why you felt the need to make it in the first place. Have escorts approached you with their concerns? Is it moralistic?

Virtually everyone who has responded has in one way or another pointed out that if a person in SL wishes to be an 'escort', then that is their choice, and I personally feel that is their business, not anyone else's. If someone says they are being exploited I have to ask them why they don't just get out of that situation. There's always the off button. We are, or should be, all adults on here and as such surely are quite capable of making choices for ourselves. If a person cannot , then perhaps he/she shouldn't be here. Whether they are newbies or not, they, as an adult, chose to do that job, the clubs didn't drag them in off the streets.

If you are still not convinced, perhaps you could tell us what you think should be done about escorts in clubs?

Latonia

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
No!!!!!
He already has... just read the posts carefully.
Don't open this door again.

I'm going to bed. I just can't take it anymore.
I'lll probably dream of Hiro going to Club Elite and being escorted by BigBadJohn the Prostitute! THAT's an image I didn't need to end the day with!!!!

Darn you Latonia!

Latonia,
I'm not here to tell people what, if anything, should be done. The forums are a venue of public awareness and discussion.

As for my reasons, that does not affect the truth or validity of the discussion. If you or anyone would like, I can share more of my personal views on the issue, as well as my reasons, in game via IM or via PM here.

Thanks.

What about customer exploitation by the escorts? I may implement not only a designation, but an escort grading system. Similar to the way we grade meat in the US. We can tatoo this designation on the asses of all certified escorts. I haven't worked out the details yet, but after a rigorous testing period qualified escorts would not only get the SSOA (Schwan's Seal of Approval) but a grade. The lowest grade would probably be HA (hairy ass) the highest SSOA PB (prime boody). We may also implement sub grades, ie: Corn fed. In order to be compensated for the massive amount of man hours and the bulk purchase cost of petroleum jelly, all certified escorts will pay me a 10% commission from all transactions. The commission will be taken by the escorts bodliy attachments that will be scripted not to activate until paid. Bypassing of the commssion system may result in an electric shock to both the escort and the client, I suggest just paying to avoid an embarassing electrical situation. Any thoughts?

ROFL you crazy Mofo LOL.. love it

If selling virtual sex for virtual money is the worst form of exploitation in SL, i say we've got it pretty good... Don't believe I've yet seen the equivilent of the exploitation of children in the Olympic Games. They miss out on a proper education and learn to contort their bodies to odd positions because the country wants to win a gold medal and adult spines aren't as flexible... To quote Max Headroom:

Parents, you can't push your children too hard, breed a champion! Ten year old girls just love to have no friends, go to bed at eight'o'clock and pound around the tennis court all day. Why? Because they love you of course.

I was contacted ingame to visit these forums and offer some input as an escort.

So why do I do it?
Is it for the sex? Nope, do me a favour, I get plenty of sex in SL without having to be an escort. In fact if you're doing the job well then you're doing way to much stuff IRL to get turned on anyway. I'm constantly switching views so I can click my sound belt, typing emotes, typing chat, clicking mine and the client's genitals etc......

I also spend alot of my free time looking around for new locations to use, and researching the anims I find at those locations, so we can both move to the next stage with the minimum of delay and confusion.

Hotbauds on Paradise Island is a great location, but type in "sex" on a places search and it's almost top of the list, and there's nothing worse if you're entertaning a client than to have some noob TP in from the starting area, and ask "hi, can I join in?". A good escort will try to control the situation so the client can put all their concentration into whatever they're doing.

Anyone can lie there typing "oooh baby, yeah, yeah", but if a client has paid my fee, I feel it's my responsibility to provide them with the best experience I can provide.

So, why do I do this job?. One of my most satisfying assignments was some guy that was about 1 hour old. I even gave him a huge discount coz he'd spent most of his starting cash tipping dancers and escorts he saw dancing in the club. Afterds he said "Thanks Loethe, that was the most amazing experience I've ever had". I know it sounds stupid, but those few words gave me an enourmous sense of satisfaction.

Are we exploited?. Well I don't feel like I am, I decide how much, and with who, and the club takes not one single Linden that I earn. Ok, so the club gets higher attendance with us there. However I love the club I work at. The management are great people, my friends (people that work there and regular members) are all there, so if I wasn't an escort I'd prolly just be dancing there anyway. If I can do some small thing to help get the attendance up at our club up, then I'm happy.

I've seen exploitation of prostitutes IRL, pimps getting their girls addicted to drugs so they're locked in a loop of earning money too pay for their habit. The only thing my club has got me addicted to is logging on to play more Second Life.

I think the bleeding heart liberals that post here saying I'm exploited, don't really understand the motivations of us who choose to be escorts. Some want easy cash for a few hours work per night. Some maybe roleplaying a person they could never be IRL. We all have our own personal reasons for playing the characters we play in SL. You should respect another player's wish to play their character howevr they want.

Unless you are roleplaying a bleeding heart Liberal yourself in SL, and you think sticking up for the rights of those you see as weaker and lower down the food chain than you are, is how your character should be played. If that's the case, I applaud you for your roleplaying. If you're just a nosey, meddling antagonist, who comes here hoping to stir up trouble, then I truly pity you. People like you are never happy unless you're getting a reaction out of someone. I'm happy in my Second Life, can you say the same thing?.

Thank you for reading my little post.

Loethe Rockwell.
Escort & Vampyre.

Bring forth thease poor exploited people. To exploit someone there must be a form of leverage applied to them. Show me the girls with broken arms and black eyes where they were beaten into performing. No attack intended but I think your full of b.s. on this subject.
Today at work I was thinking about this thread and a vision of you standing out side of Elite in a Salvation Army uniform trying to reform thease poor sots of thier wayward ways, came to my mind.

<hijack>



Despite the fact that I really don't agree much with the things this person has said/does. I have to friggin say it was one of the best posts I have ever read in these forums. It was very well written.

So... interrupting the thread a moment for kudos. Well done.

</hijack>

Two more people posted and missed the point.

No one is saying every escort is exploited. No one saying escorting itself is exploitation. No one is even saying it's a majority. Most SL escorts are having fun, things are fine, that's fine. It does, however, happen with many escorts.

Calling us "bleeding heart liberals" is just lame.

Please read the post before you insult people.

Lol... I feel ashamed responding to this yet again, yet like a moth to a flame...

"It does, however, happen with many escorts"????
I still haven't seen any evidence of numbers. I have read a lot of claims - mostly from you. But I have not read a single "I was truly exploited" post - anywhere. I read some disgruntled employee posts who finally figured out that SL is for fun and not worth being aggravated over. Theye exercised their fingers, their virtual feet and their mice and keyboards - picked up and left, then posted elsewhere.

Exploited? It's a matter of perspective and a loaded rhetorical word wielded carelessly in far too many discussions.

"
"Calling us "bleeding heart liberals" is just lame."

/me admits to being lame - but has an appointment with a blacksmith to get a new horseshoe tomorrow.
/me passes a desensitization pill to poor Hiro.
/me offers Hiro a thicker skin.
/me laughs uproariously as Hiro refuses both and prepares to refute/cry wolf again

I attempted to delve deep into the world of escorting tonight. I put on a nice sexy dress, stilleto heels, and some serious make up.....unfortunately I haven't gotten any takers as of yet but when I do I'll report in and let you know if I was exploited or not.

I still can't figure out what the club owners mean by " we don't need your kind " when turning me down...we're all avatars right?

Talen - here's what you need to do, hun:

Go into Appearance Mode, and click on Shape. Right under the Legs button, click on Female instead of Male.

Then click Save All, and close the window.

This will really help your career....

Let's see. Tonight I was my av - the escort girl.

No sex. Six customers. $2000L.

Yep. I have been exploited. Please... Save me from myself!

Somebody be my hero!

DAMMIT, TALEN! TP ME WHEN YOU DO THIS!

Read the thread. A few posted. I even quoted them in the last page.

The thread died about 2 pages ago. No new opinions have been expressed.

Korg,
Congrats on your savvy business work. I'm glad you found something more useful to do than simply trolling.